Saxon vs. Singapore Math

[tpschettle]

Hi, there!

I have been using Saxon with my boys since my oldest was in 2nd grade. He is now in 6th. I haven't wanted to change to Singapore because I love Saxon's method--the way the concepts are presented so incrementally. With both my sons, I barely have to teach anything until 4th quarter because the lessons draw so much on what they've already learned that they just "get it." I also love the integration with geometry.

This is my first year doing HOD with both of them at once. I love everything about the curriculum, but because of my fondness for Saxon, have not switched over to Singapore Math.

However, since September, my oldest is only able to do half days because of the time it takes him to do his math homework. He is the dreamy and distracted type. He understands all the concepts right away, but does B work because of things like miscopied problems, not completely reading the directions, mistakes with adding & subtracting, etc. I'm starting to wonder if switching might not make it easier for me to fit everything into a day, move him forward at a better pace with HOD, and help him focus better.

Besides that, my youngest will be starting a new guide and a new math grade to go with it in a few weeks. So I'm thinking about his math, too.

Could someone out there who is familiar with both curricula compare them for me? If Singapore has that incremental method and integration, the switch would be an easy decision. If not, I'm probably going to keep him at half-pace and make up the difference over the summers or try backing off on the number of problems he has to do. 10 less problems to do on test days make a huge difference for him in freeing up time.

I hope this doesn't sound too much like promoting. I just feel like I need to explain so that you understand what I'm really looking to compare. I don't think it's a spiral vs. mastery issue. It's the way one concept moves onto another. It's also the way only one new concept is added per day. Does that make sense?

Thanks so much in advance for your help. You ladies are awesome!

[StephanieU]

What grades are they in now? What level of Saxon are they using? Have them take the Singapore placement tests and see where they place as well.

Often switching causes problems because the sequence of TOCs is different as well as teaching methodology. We use something different (Horizon), and I cut down the number of problems. Remember that many of these curriculums are designed for the classroom where they need busywork. At home, that busywork is not necessary. So having your kids just do evens or just do odds is perfectly fine. Even cutting it down to multiples of three of three can be enough.

[amysconfections]

I have used both Saxon and Singapore. I use Singapore up through level 5 then switch to Saxon. I switched with 6a for my oldest then my second switched after 5a. For me it was then amount of teaching time needed at those levels with ?singapore. I don't teach saxon but use the Dive CD. Since your boys are older I would not suggest changing. Instead change the amount of review problems required. On the Dive website they recommend only doing half the review concepts unless there is a need for more review. In the early grades I do prefer Singapore. Meaning level 4 and under. I like Singapore then because it keeps the kids from burning out on Math. If I didn't have too much going on to spend the time teaching at the upper levels I would have stuck with it. It seemed like they just needed lots more teaching time and help about level 5 and up. My husband also didn't have the time to spend at night. Some nights he would spend 30-60 min helping them.

[tpschettle]

Thank you already for the input!

Oldest ds is in 76. We use the Mr. Reed dvds. Youngest ds is about to start 54. I had planned to purchase the dives for him because Mr. Reed isn't available in that level.

Thanks again for the help.

[Nealewill]

I do agree with not jumping around and think that is wise. But, at the same time, if you are miserable I wouldn't necessarily keep moving forward in that fashion.

Have you printed off the scope and sequence for both programs? I am guessing that they are both fairly differently. Also, are your kids naturally mathy? My younger 2 kids are fairly mathy but my oldest is not so much. Singapore seems to be a good fit for all of them because I am mathy and this is really the only way I could envision teaching math to my kids. I did try a traditional program with my oldest and it was a total flop anyway. It seems like these Singapore and similar products seem to be a good fit here.

When I originally saw the ages of your kids, I was going to recommend switching the youngest because he is so young but then I can see he is level 54 and am wondering if that is advanced for his age. Since both of them are farther along in levels, you would really need to pray about it to decide which would be the best fit for you. The good news with the oldest child is that there is level the parents can skip and that it counts for pre-algebra. I don't know which level that is. So for you oldest, he may be on the last level he needs before pre-algebra. So he has 2 years left with Saxon. With your younger child, if he came into Singapore, he would probably place in 3B or 4A Singapore. If your younger child is very mathy, then I would honestly consider switching to Singapore. For your older child, if you feel like Saxon is too much, then I would look to Teaching Textbooks. You will need to look at the scope and sequence because your child will probably place in the 7th or 8th grade level. I have heard many parents say they really liked TT Pre-Algebra. You could do 2 years here and then move to Foerester's after that. But some else already recommended doing only 1/2 of the problems. You could definitely do that if you wanted as well. I will say that my kids and I came from RightStart math and I did really like it. But by the end math was taking 1 hour a day. It was just too much. My kids didn't necessarily need all that. Singapore does have additional reivews as well that you can purchase elsewhere. They sell a general review (so if you completed 4A and 4B for the year, you would by the Review book for 4), they sell intensive reviews that match up with the level explicitly (so it would be an A and B for each level) and then they sell challenging word problem books. HOD only sells that main text and main workbook. But if you felt like your child needed more, there are more things they can do. It is just a thought that hopefully can help you out.

[Bethben]

My background--I had a child who went through Singapore 6A and one who went through 2B. I switched all my kids to Saxon. I would stay with Saxon. Singapore is really hard to just jump into after level 3. If you had them take a placement test, you may find that you have to go back a ways so they could catch the concepts that Singapore just teaches differently. It isn't unheard of to have a 5th grader who understands math at a 5th grade level have to backtrack to level 3. Math is just presented differently. There is a method to doing word problems that uses bar graphs and some of the problems in the later levels are hard if you don't understand and have been doing their method since the beginning. There is also a lack of review built in which is the main reason I switched.

If your son is easily distracted, you may have to do math next to him for a while. Be present for a week or two and if he's making silly mistakes, correct them right away. I did that off and on with my now 14 year old because he was easily distracted and made copying errors. He's much better now - maturity does wonders for distractible boys.

[Jennymommy]

Hi Tina My experience with all three boys has been a real slow down about age 11 or so in their math abilities. It seems that maybe as they are beginning their hormonal changes, their brains just aren't ready for new concepts. I learned from my oldest son that it is best to slow down and maybe work more on things they already know for a while. I ended up with a colorful workbook for youngest ds recently, and he loves it It gives me the opportunity to see areas he needs more practice in, and he loves having pages accomplished to show off My middle ds is doing Life of Fred pre algebra series after hitting a wall in Saxon 8/7. He loves to read, and short lessons with lots of humor have taken the stress away So, we will be back to Saxon eventually, but the pause now is good, and they are still doing math. I don't know if this helps you, but it is good for me to see all the math avenues on the boards lately.