Rod & Staff 2 or 3?

[mama247]

Hi,

My son will be in Preparing next year. This year, with Bigger, we have chosen to use a different LA book than Rod & Staff. However, I am considering starting him in the Rod & Staff next year with Preparing. Would he need to start at book 2 or would it be okay to start him in book 3?

He has had some informal grammar instruction already. Does R&S 3 cover much of the same things as R&S 2? Just wondering if he would absolutely need R&S 2 before book3.

Also, for those who have used R&S all the way, can you share a bit of your experience? Has your child retained information well or has it been a drag to get the R&S done?

Any input would be greatly appreciated!

Thank you!!

[my3sons]

Good morning! I think you will be impressed with R & S English - we sure have been. How old is your ds, and what has he done for grammar (or what parts of speech has he been introduced to informally) thus far? I think that could make a difference. As far as the retention with R & S English, we have found that moving through it year after year with HOD, and being consistent with the oral review questions (which begin in R & S English 3 in the TG), are the 2 factors that make retention very successful and natural. One year in R & S English won't show the success of retention as much as the longevity of doing it year after year, but I imagine that this is true of any English program. We have found our ds doing R & S English 6 has excellent retention. Our ds doing R & S English 4 has a bit less retention, but it is improving daily. When we were doing R & S English 2 or 3, it was all new and the retention was basic. Not to worry though, with each subsequent year, the knowledge base and skill base grows and grows and grows.

We have really been impressed with R & S English. It not only does an outstanding job of teaching grammatical skills, it also teaches writing skills from the standpoint of using solid grammatical skills to produce excellent writing. These writing skills are taught in a clear, organized, step-by-step manner, so that all students can be successful. We have found the writing skills taught in R & English carry over into writing assignments in other subjects. For example, our dc know how to write clear, organized paragraphs with unity and coherence within their written narrations for history and science thanks to R & S English (as well as other LA HOD helps ). There are many skills that could slip between the cracks without R & S English's thorough coverage. Taking notes, answering the phone properly, outlining in topical or sentence form, giving good oral reports, introducing people to one another properly, writing paragraphs well, giving 'how to' speeches or reports accurately, adding descriptive words to writing, using a thesaurus/dictionary/phone book, etc., alphabetizing, writing a business letter, writing a friendly letter, addressing an envelope properly, using proper sequence in writing, omitting superfluous information, using sentence variety - these are all writing skills R & S English teaches extremely well, and they are just off the top of my head as I have one ds completing R & S English 6 now, and one using R & S English 4.

I also appreciate that this grammar program is Christian. We actually pull out our Bibles now and then, which I love, but also - the content is safe. This may seem less important, but after perusing a well-known grammar program I won't mention the name of and seeing sentences referring to prom, girlfriends, boyfriends, dances, school parties, etc. it became more of a big deal to me. The last thing I want to do is have a talk about what prom is and why our kiddos probably won't be going to one when we're doing a grammar lesson. I like that classical poetry is also included. Often times, we have studied the very poet's work included in R & S English in HOD already, so it's a neat connection.

Finally, the manner in which HOD suggests teaching R & S English has been highly effective. We do the 5-7 oral review questions out of the TG, read the lesson together, and then orally work through 2/3 or so of the lesson together, using the marker board if need be. We reserve 1 section to be written, and I usually choose the diagramming or the writing section for this. The lessons clip along, the retention is good, and our sons appreciate this method so much. If a student had to write every single answer for R & S English (especially for Levels 5 on up), the lesson would get l-o-n-g. I've heard families say they LOVED R & S English but felt they may have to sadly switch at the upper levels as it would take too long - when they come to HOD and hear of HOD's progression of grammar and suggestion of lesson implementation - they are thrilled!

This brings me to the last thing I wanted to mention. The pacing of R & S English HOD has planned is genius. It helps students progress nicely without burning them out. Some years there are half-speed plans for English to offset a focus on a writing program. This pacing has been right on track for our dc. HOD has an overall goal for students to complete R & S English 6 by the close of Grade 8. R & S English 7 and 8 are high school credit worthy, so this plan makes complete sense. You can read more about it here...

R & S English pacing – Carrie explains why the half-pacing, etc.:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5494

HTH, but ask more questions as they arise!
In Christ,
Julie

[mama247]

Hi Julie,

Thank you so much for your response! It was so detailed and I really appreciate that.

My son is 7 (turning 8 in a few months). So far, he has learned about subjects, predicates, nouns, verbs, plurals, capitalization, and punctuation. He's grasped these parts of speech and concepts with no problems at all, and he remembers them from lesson to lesson.

From your response and explaining things so well, I think I am more concerned that my son will miss out on those important writing skills that you say R&S includes if we choose not to use R&S next year with Preparing. The idea of trying to make sure all of those are covered by another resource starts to make my brain hurt! I know those writing skills are going to come into play in the upper grades and I really want him to have a solid foundation now.

So do you think I could skip R&S 2 and move into 3 next year without any issues or should we backtrack a bit and finish R&S 2 first? We did start it at the beginning of the year, but then I got sidetracked by another grammar program and we stopped R&S. We could technically backtrack and move steadily through and probably get up to speed by the end of summer if we started R&S 2 this week.

But if you think he would be okay with starting in R&S 3 with Preparing in the fall, I will consider that. I'm just not sure what skills he would miss in R&S 2 if we didn't complete it.

[arstephia]

We will be doing Preparing the fall and doing Rod and Staff 3. While we are doing R & S 2 in Bigger this year, my older kids have done R & S since the beginning even though they weren't doing HOD back then so I am very familiar with it.(I love it.) I think it has good review and given that your son has had some grammar, you could go to level 3. Level 2 is very basic, overly stated at times, and a good base, but I don't think it is necessary to start there. The same topics will be covered in 3, just expanded on what level 2 did. Preparing has a nice pace to it so you can really make sure he has it mastered before continuing on. We also do some oral/whiteboard and some paper/pencil work so I know what if anything needs to be retaught before they ever get to the paper/pencil work. I love that about R&S.

[my3sons]

Thanks for getting back to me! I am glad to be of any help. I agree 100% with arstephia's good advice. He sounds ready for R & S English 3. I'd not worry one bit about him not doing 2 from what you have shared. I thought I should mention that the writing skills I listed are spread out through various upper years of R & S English. I agree about trying to add them all in being one tough job, and I think you'll be so glad to do R & S English and know they are all already covered thoroughly in a very sequential way. Have a great Sunday afternoon!

In Christ,
Julie

[mama247]

Thank you both so much! Your advice has really helped. I feel more confident as we move into Preparing next year.