Placement for previously public schooled 4th grade twins

[kvest]

Hi! I could write a novel here, but I'll get to the point: I have almost 10 yo boy/girl twins who have been in childcare/school since 1 1/2 yo while I worked pretty long hours (accountant). Let's just say, God has done a MAJOR work in my life, because this career driven woman became a SAHM (also have a 2 yo) in Sept, & now my twins are home with me as well! Let the journey begin!:)
Everything I see in Heart of Dakota has been wonderful, & I'm very excited to make this purchase! We will not begin "formal" schooling until July. I would like to make sure their cores (LA & Math) are sound before adding anything else. We are also healing & working on heart issues, chores, etc. Honestly, I have been more neglectful than I'd like to admit. When I look at the placement chart, I am saddened that I really am unsure of where they are at. I do know that my daughter was failing math, & I worked with her often but had a difficult time determining what school methods in which to follow through. When I look at Singapore, I can tell even 2A is very different from what they've learned. My son excels with math but dislikes reading. They have never learned cursive, so we're going through Handwriting Without Tears now. I am fairly certain they have never been exposed to dictation.
I would love to start with CTC in July, & I'm certain they're ready for the history & science content, but what can I do to assess & "fine tune" math & language arts in preparation for this upcoming year? Singapore Math makes complete sense to me, as I'm a numbers person, but does it make sense to transition in 4th grade? How do I assess where they should begin R&S English? I purchased Easy Grammar 4 & Teaching Textbooks 4 before really digging in & researching HOD & their recommendations. We have not begin these yet.
Any input is appreciated! Thank you!

[psreit]

Welcome to HOD! Glad you can have your dc home with you. There are others who will advice you better than I can, but my first thought was, do not go by the history and science when choosing a guide. Reading and writing skills are very important with each guide. The math can be done on any level with the guides. Try to find where they place on the chart in reading and writing. I think the level of dictation would be determined by where they are in English and spelling. You may want to consider Preparing to get started. We are in Bigger right now, so I don't know all the details. But, from what I remember being said about Preparing, there is more writing and the child is doing more work independently. If you have struggling writers, you may want a guide that is more gentle in that area. You could even use Bigger w/ extensions. That would give extra reading, but also give you a gentle start with narration and dictation. Since they are just learning cursive and you are not sure where they are in English, that may be an option. In Bigger, Carrie has activities written out for Singapore 2. These are just some ideas. Knowing where they are on the placement chart is important. HTH

[LynnH]

I agree with Pam you really need to think closely about their writing skills and their ability to comprehend reading that is much deeper than anything they would have encountered in public school. The history spines in CTC are very challenging reading. What they are required to do with written and oral narrations will be completely different than what they have ever done at school. In school they would have been required to just answer fill in the blank questions. Narration requires deeper thinking and retelling things that stood out to them and making connections with knowledge they already have. The readings in CTC are also very long so if you have a reluctant reader that may pose an issue. You want them to be able to be Independent with the boxes that are marked I. Not that they have to start out that way, but after 6-8 weeks you would want them to be able to do all the reading that is marked as I on their own and do the follow up activities by reading and following the directions in the guide.

My ds came home at the end of fourth grade and I started him in Preparing and I am very glad I did. Preparing taught him how the program worked and gently worked him up to the amount of writing and the type of thinking that is required. In Preparing you are still doing the reading of the history spines and they are doing the science reading and the Independent history box. In CTC they take over the reading of the history spines. Preparing teaches them how to do a written narration. It also has creative writing assignments based on poetry. For math you can use whatever you think will work with your child. We did not use Singapore because it would have been very difficult for my ds to jump into it as a 5th grader.

[kvest]

Thanks so much! LynnH, what math do you use?

[8arrows]

Since your children are older, this math idea may be feasible. I have done it before. Since you already have the TT, go with that and the children will not feel "behind". However, you could add in the Singapore at whatever level you felt was good for them and not worry about getting through them by a certain grade. Others may definately disagree with me on this one, but it has worked well for us in the past. I also happen to like Easy Grammar. I think it might make a nice transition between school and home. After some Easy Grammar, they could transition well into the Rod and Staff that is scheduled in HOD. I am so happy for you. I always said I would have two children and teach school. God had different plans. I now have 8 children, and I am a SAHM. I have never been happier. HOD has been a great program to work with.

[CrystalM]

If you really want to use Singapore, here is the link to the placement tests. http://www.singaporemath.com/Placement_Test_s/86.htm Download the U.S. edition tests since these are the ones HOD offers. Start with the Primary Math 1A test and work your way through until your dc does not pass with an 80% or higher. The test they don't pass is the level you would want to start with.

Crystal

[my3sons]

Hi there kvest, and welcome to the HOD Board! Isn't it amazing how God can have different plans than we ever anticipated, and yet somehow, they are always right, and even better than we imagined?!? I was going to be a principal and had just finished getting my master's degree when I became a stay at home, homeschool mom. God has been good though. He has walked me through all of it, and He will for you too.

HOD is such a super way to go about homeschooling. It is very God honoring, and it also is strong academically. It is fun, uses awesome books, has a variety of activities that help catch any kid's attention/learning style, and it is OPEN AND GO and EASY TO TEACH FROM. Love that. Need that. So, I'm happy you are homeschooling and happier still you are going to get to enjoy doing so with HOD.

I think I'd take a good look at Preparing Hearts for His Glory (PHFHG) too. It is simply a super guide to start with, and will still provide a solid challenge. It gives nice helps for teaching oral narrations, written narrations, and dictation, and it is not heavy on writing. I am thinking that you have from now until July, so why not start PHFHG half-speed now, with a focus on easing into it, truly enjoying the books but focusing on the LA/math, while also introducing new skills like narration and dictation slowly? Then, by the time you start in July, you'd be able to jump in full-speed, you'd have taught some good solid LA/math skills, and you'd be 3 to 4 months worth of plans into the guide already. I'd love for you to see how amazing your days are going get to be with PHFHG - puts the mind at rest, ya know.

I realize you have other math and LA already, and you can certainly use those instead if you wish, but I'm going to go from the standpoint that using the PHFHG guide as it is written would bring much balance, joy, and ease of use to your day, so my advice will be based on using HOD's great resources...

To begin with, you could give the Singapore Math placement test, printable and free at this website...
http://www.singaporemath.com
Just follow these steps once you are on the website...
1. Click on "parents"
2. Click on "assessment tests" (which is a clickable link under Step 3 on that page).
3. Click on the level you want to begin with under PRIMARY MATHEMATICS 3RD & U.S. EDITION SERIES , keeping in mind Singapore Math is considered a year advanced - in other words, start LOWER than you think your dc will place.
4. Print the test and have your dc take it, making sure not to help with anything as this inflates scores.
5. Follow the guidelines for placement (dc will probably take several levels tests before arriving at a placement).
6. Wherever dc place, even if it is lower than you anticipated, start there. If they tested into a "B" book, just begin with that. It will be fine!

PHFHG on up has a 4 day plan, so you can always do math on the fifth day too, to easily move ahead more quickly in math through the years. Better to start where dc are than to place them in over their head and try to force learning.

For grammar, I'd start in R & S English 3. HOD has an overall goal for dc to complete R & S English 6 by the close of Grade 8, as R & S English 7 and 8 are high school credit worthy, so your dc would be right on track to do this. Be sure to do 2/3 of it orally or on markerboard as HOD suggests, saving 1 section for dc to write on notebook paper. This helps grammar be very manageable, yet effective.

For dictation, you can use PHFHG's Appendix to start Level 2 (which is not meant to be grade equivalent) and see how it goes, moving ahead to the middle of Level 2, or to Level 3, if it is too easy. It is key to read the directions for how to do dictation in the Appendix in PHFHG before beginning, as it's important to do it properly. Dictation is easy to do and extremely successful at helping dc become stronger spellers and better grammatically correct writers, provided it is done correctly, and the Appendix explains it so well.

For reading instruction, you can begin using "Drawn into the Heart of Reading" (DITHOR) 3 times a week, as is the pace for it in the PHFHG guide. DITHOR is an outstanding reading program, and I guarantee, given time, it will bring out a passion for reading and for living books in even the most reluctant to love reading student. OR, you can wait to start DITHOR until July, and that would be just fine too.

For PHFHG half-speed, it can be as simple as doing one page of the plans one day, and the second page of the plans the second day. Or, if you want to focus on full-speed LA/math, you could do that and take the rest of the PHFHG half-speed. You'd just have 2 sticky notes in your guide - one for the core subjects like half-speed history, science, etc., and one you'd be moving ahead more quickly for the LA/math full-speed.

But, what do YOU think? I'd love to hear your thoughts! I am so excited for you and your dc to get to enjoying HOD - I think you will love it as much as our family has!

In Christ,
Julie

[kvest]

I really appreciate everyone's suggestions! You're right, after taking a closer look at Preparing, that is probably the ideal place to start. We are on schedule to complete The Story Bible study & Chronicles of Narnia study in July. Both of these have prompted long discussions, bringing all of us much closer. And, I think Chronicles of Narnia is sparking some reading interest in my son!:) We have also joined a co-op that we attend once weekly. All of my children are VERY sociable, so I knew that would be important from the beginning! I am not opposed to beginning Preparing in July, although it will take us back a year. That's not a problem. I think what I'll do is add R&S 3 & Singapore at full speed right now, with the hope of being at level 4 for both by July. I have printed out 3A & 3B tests, but we may need to go back to 2. We'll see. More than anything, our family needs healing (for various reasons) which requires A LOT of unstructured moments. I am already seeing a big change (for the better) in all of us. Praise God!

My husband is a fireman & works 24 hrs on, 48 hrs off. But, he also has a lawn care business that will be getting busy mid-March. Up to this point, it's been manageable with him & one other worker, but we are planning to expand this year. So, we are getting the kids involved with door to door advertising, the financial aspect (me), & even some of the labor (dad). Again, the desire is to bring us together & teach the kids what it takes to run a family, etc. July is when it begins to get very hot here in Texas, so that's when I'd like to begin Preparing. We plan to do "sabbath schooling" from that point. 6 weeks on, 1 week off.

Believe me, all of this has been a big change for everyone, including me, however, I have never been at such peace with a decision. My kids are learning more than they ever did with mom gone making big bucks & paying a housekeeper! I have time for their stories, my son's physical training tactics (he makes me "workout" twice a day), preparing healthy meals, actually thinking to bring my husband ice tea, etc. The twins are now washing their own laundry, doing chores WELL, & playing together nicely. It's amazing what happens when everyone is home & mom is mentally present & focused on serving her family well!

Again, thank you so much for encouraging words.

Kim