Long intro and Questions

[chargemom2002]

We only just started LHTH and are planning on using Bigger Hearts soon with 7ds and 9dd (10 when we start) so my response is not coming from my experience with the HOD program but as a long time homeschooler, including all the way through high school (oldest 20dd at University studying biology), which I feel has given me a different perspective on what’s important in these early years with my little ones.

What I keep reading in your posts is a feeling of being overwhelmed and of wanting to “cover it all.” As homeschoolers I think we need to see this process as an 18 (or so) year continuum and not get bogged down with grade levels, cycles, arbitrary standards of achievement and the like. It sounds like you are really ready for American History but feel compelled to finish World History “in order.” From my experience, I can tell you, it doesn’t really matter the order when all is said and done, or even if you cover “everything.”

What is most important to you? Write out your priorities and make a mission statement for your homeschool journey. Not about which subjects to cover or when but rather how you want to guide your children to become the Christ following, independent thinkers God intends them to be.

If I were you I would go to the store buy some big plastic bins and start packing up. I would then buy the LHTH and the Bigger Hearts manuals, keep out only what I needed for those including one math program and one LA program. My hubby calls it pick it and stick with it. : )

Now Breathe. Awww! Think of all the time you’ll have to linger, cuddle, play games, and do projects. My 9dd and I are learning how to sew matching dresses for her and her little sister, all my children now have flower gardens which they planned and take care of themselves, 5ds wants to be a chef so, we spend lots of time in the kitchen cooking and baking, we have an elaborate fort in the backyard, go on field trips once a week and…well you get the idea.

I don’t mean to sound like my way is the best way but this time when our children are young goes by so quickly. When they’re up and out of the house, leading there own lives, you will probably not look back and think of which topics you covered in “5th grade” or the math program they used for algebra. You (and they) will remember however, the times you spent together being silly acting out an historical event, getting dirty building models from clay, or the time you shook up a milk jug filled with baking soda and vinegar and it EXPLODED on to the 10 foot ceiling in the kitchen (yes this actually happened to us and no I don’t recommend it).

Gods blessings on your decision and you are in my prayers!

[inHistiming]

I didn't mean to pique your interest...

You're right, you don't need them...whatever you choose will be fine without this set of books. However, if you ever do see them at a good price, I would suggest picking them up because they're great! Apparently, they are out of print, and I never knew about them until I found a set of 16 (various) at our Salvation Army store. When I tried to find more...we then found out they are out of print and very difficult to obtain.

I think Bigger would be enough for dd if you ordered the extension pack. See this link, http://www.heartofdakota.com/bigger-hearts-packages.php for information on the Bigger packages. You'll find the extension pack there, as well. It is for "4th and 5th graders learning with younger siblings".

[netpea]

which I feel has given me a different perspective on what’s important in these early years with my little ones.

What I keep reading in your posts is a feeling of being overwhelmed and of wanting to “cover it all.”
---
From my experience, I can tell you, it doesn’t really matter the order when all is said and done, or even if you cover “everything.”
---
My hubby calls it pick it and stick with it. : )

Now Breathe. Awww! Think of all the time you’ll have to linger, cuddle, play games, and do projects. My 9dd and I are learning how to sew matching dresses for her and her little sister, all my children now have flower gardens which they planned and take care of themselves, 5ds wants to be a chef so, we spend lots of time in the kitchen cooking and baking, we have an elaborate fort in the backyard, go on field trips once a week and…well you get the idea.

This is what I was trying to convey but you said it 1000 times better. This is what I struggle with in my own family. Forgetting to do the wonderful stuff you're doing because I must get the less important "school stuff" done. This is what I want for our homeschool next year!!

[MommyMc]

OK. I cheated. I looked it up.

Are you talking about the recent Christian series by Barbour publishing or the older series shown HERE?

Just wondering.

[water2wine]

Will Bigger be enough for my daughter that is 10? (She will be in 5th grade next year.) My son has ALWAYS done history with us. At age 4 he was learning about the Rosetta stone and Hatshepsut and all of the Egypt "stuff" (and he STILL remembers it!). He was also 4 when we did Creation and the Flood which sparked the interest he still has in fossils. He reads books from Answers in Genesis that are marked ages 12-adult (after I preview to make sure that it's just difficulty and not "content" that is mature). Anyhow, I'm pretty sure he can keep up with us if I keep Language Arts at his level. (He's going to catch his sister eventually in math-- although by doing so much , the one advantage is that he is only going to finish Singapore 3A this year instead of 5A or something like that. (But he HAS helped his sister with her 4B.)

As I mentioned previously, my kids actually have an OK grasp of American History and have read lots of biographies,etc. They know most of the Presidents. They know where all of the states are. They know about the American Revolution and a lot of the people from that era (Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, John Adams, Patrick Henry, Samuel Adams). They know about Lewis and Clark. They know about the Civil War and slavery (and that the civil war was not just about slavery). They know about World War II and VERY LITTLE about the Holocaust. They have read a picture biography of Anne Frank. They've read "Twenty and Ten" (or did I switch the name around?). They've read a biography of Corrie ten Boom (or two or three). They know about D-Day. They have read "Exploring American History" by Christian Liberty Press when I was too sick to do school while pregnant with my youngest.

And as I read that, I am wondering WHY I am so worried at all. I just know that I need to do SOMETHING and MOVE ON.

Sounds like Preparing maybe would be good. If you get to a point where you feel like you hit a gap maybe you could take it slower. You will get American again and at a higher level with the programs that are to come.

But to me it sounds like you need Carrie as well.

[inHistiming]

I'm talking about the ones by Harbour Publishing...I'll pm you.

[MommyMc]

I was looking more closely at the sample for Preparing. I noticed it uses Grandpa's Box. My son would LOVE that. My mom bought it for him a while back. He's probably read it 5 times and he shares lots of things that he's learned from it with me. He would like that!

[my3sons]

Hi Anita! Carrie is going to be gone for about a week attending the Winston Salem convention. Aren't these ladies wise on this board?!? I find myself nodding in agreement to so much of what's being said.

I am reading your posts and seeing these words... trudging, "VERY PACKED summer, need to pick SOMETHING and MOVE on, frustrated with school, we are trying to do it ALL, it is enough to make me want to give up, it's a real struggle in our family, overwhelmed.

Now, I don't know you, but I will say that I am concerned from the bottom of my heart for you right now. I'm going to be totally honest with you here. You sound exactly like my older sister about a year before she put her older 3 children in public school. My oldest sister is INCREDIBLY intelligent, shares your love of literature, and owns more books than even you - I'm quite sure! We had a talk similar to the one you and I are going to have here, and similar to the one many of these ladies are having with you here as well.

If you want to be able to keep homeschooling, you need to make some changes, or you are headed straight for burnout. Your love of books is a wonderful thing, but you've made excellent conclusions about the need for a balance between that and science experiments, hands-on activities, etc. and just plain time to breathe!

I'm also reading between the lines to see that you are a very loving mother that wants the very best for her children, and your children are really doing well, so everything is o.k. at this point. BUT, you need a change NOW, TODAY, THIS MOMENT.

I am so sure that you need a change, that I think you should change the time period studied as well. I think you should do Bigger Hearts for His Glory, along with the extension pack. You can create an "Independent Reading Shelf" for each of your children with any other beloved books not in the program that you really want them to read. You can even get them on audio tape if you want. BUT, you should not add anything more to the HOD program. You need to do this, and you also need to take the summer off.

I know I'm being forceful here, but I wish I'd been more vocal with my sister, and I'm very sorry, but I care so much about you - yes, not even knowing you - because I want you to KEEP HOMESCHOOLING for the long run! I now have many talks with my sister since her children are in ps, and they are not good talks. They are talks filled with regret, guilt, and should of/ could of/ would of's. I don't want this for you. I want you to be a happy, content, homeschool mom ENJOYING these homeschooling moments with your children before they are gone. Please pray about this. Please don't take this the wrong way. Please know that this is coming from my heart. Now, dare I ask your thoughts about this? Please keep sharing here. You are the right place here at HOD - of that I am confident for sure.

Love in Christ,
Julie

[MommyMc]

My oldest sister is INCREDIBLY intelligent, shares your love of literature, and owns more books than even you - I'm quite sure!

I don't know.... I have thousands (and I'm not exaggerating at all).

If you want to be able to keep homeschooling, you need to make some changes, or you are headed straight for burnout. Your love of books is a wonderful thing, but you've made excellent conclusions about the need for a balance between that and science experiments, hands-on activities, etc. and just plain time to breathe!

I definitely need time to breathe! And I really want to work with my daughter on handcrafts and sewing and cooking. To be honest, science experiments and hands-on crafty things SCARE me. They FRUSTRATE me. I tend to be a crabby Mommy whenever we do them-- even when we AREN'T overloaded and busy. But, I do think the kids could use SOME of them. (Oh and as far as science experiments-- this is coming from someone with a degree in biochemistry and a minor in biology... go figure!)

I think you should do Bigger Hearts for His Glory, along with the extension pack. You can create an "Independent Reading Shelf" for each of your children with any other beloved books not in the program that you really want them to read. You can even get them on audio tape if you want. BUT, you should not add anything more to the HOD program. You need to do this, and you also need to take the summer off.

I LOVE the Independent Reading Shelf idea! So you think that if we do Bigger Hearts that my daughter would still be on track to be ready for high school? This is VERY important to my husband if we are to continue to homeschool.

Thank you for your thoughtful, thought-provoking words.

I know that I need to do something! I am about ready to call tomorrow the last day of school for the year and move on! Well, ok. Maybe not!

[netpea]

I know that I need to do something! I am about ready to call tomorrow the last day of school for the year and move on! Well, ok. Maybe not!

Maybe you should. Just stop now and take the summer to enjoy your family. School will be there waiting in the fall.

{hugs}

[my3sons]

Anita -
I am so glad you posted again here! I know that HOD is going to be wonderful for you and your family - especially once we get this whole placement issue sorted out!

In answer to your question... I think that if you did the history/science extensions for Bigger..., whatever R & S English Level you think is appropriate, DITHR Level 4/5, and whatever math you think is appropriate - yes, I do think your dd would be on track to be prepared for high school.

As far as the hands-on activities and experiments - I was totally with you on your thoughts about these... scary... frustrating... crabby-invoking (and I'm not a bio major either)... UNTIL I started using HOD. Before homeschooling, I had 7 years of sitting on various "choosing science textbooks for the school district" committees, and an equal amount of time spent on tasks such as these during my master's program, that I was all "experimented" and "activitied" out!!! (I know terrible made-up words, but you understand what I mean here!)

I think you'll find HOD to be a breath of fresh air when it comes to activities and experiments. First of all, the CHILDREN are doing them, rather than watching the parent do them. If you haven't gotten a chance to look at the Weekly Check-In, that's a great place to get a feel for the hands-on components of HOD. I tried to post every week, so you'll see some examples of what's done in Bigger... Here's that link:
http://www.heartofdakota.com/board/viewforum.php?f=14

BUT, here's the bottom line, Anita... I think you need an HOD program you can commit to doing as it is written. Bigger... fits that well. OR, if you can start at the beginning and work through Preparing... as it is written, than I think that's a viable option as well. Or, if you want to start in the middle of Preparing...,and work through it slowly, so that you could have it done by August 2009, then you could go on with Carrie's next HOD guide, which will be available then. Whatever you choose, I ask you with all of my heart... no... I DARE you... to stick to the curriculum. And yes, for us book junkies... the independent reading shelf is a must have, and I'm so glad that you liked that idea!

Oh, and I'm going to be gravely disappointed if you are not DONE with school tomorrow (as in just STOPPING where you are and CALLING IT GOOD... I think that is a fantastic idea - and believe me, I'm typically a finisher, but not in this scenario. New beginnings, a fresh break, time to get excited about something different... you deserve this so much! And the great thing is, your kids are wonderful, they're doing great, and they'll most certainly thrive with whatever HOD program you choose.

Now you know these are just my thoughts, so you should do whatever you feel God is leading you to do, but I just want you to know that "all good things" don't have to be hard. Some things - like homeschooling with HOD - can be "great" and not that hard to boot! It's true. Believe me! On top of it, you'll be able to see it through to the end - and that's what I want for you and your dc because I KNOW you are a wonderful mom. Keep praying... keep asking away here... you'll find the answer!

In Christ,
Julie

[MommyMc]

As far as the hands-on activities and experiments - I was totally with you on your thoughts about these... scary... frustrating... crabby-invoking (and I'm not a bio major either)... UNTIL I started using HOD. Before homeschooling, I had 7 years of sitting on various "choosing science textbooks for the school district" committees, and an equal amount of time spent on tasks such as these during my master's program, that I was all "experimented" and "activitied" out!!! (I know terrible made-up words, but you understand what I mean here!)

This made me laugh. I have glue, play-doh and paint phobia. Crafts that require more than crayons or a box of watercolor paints give me an anxiety attack (PLEASE KNOW THAT IS A JOKE ). But, truth be told, I don't like them and I don't do them often. I will definitely check out your link.

Science experiments aren't as bad. It's just the set-up and clean-up time that get to me.

I don't have time to answer all of the rest of your post right now. I will try to get back to it later.

Have a great day all!

[MommyMc]

I just wanted to add. My kids (unprompted) were just asking, "Mom, can we do just history this summer?" My DS added, "I had wanted to finish my 3A math this summer, but I don't really care about that right now, but I miss history."

To clarify even further what has been going on with our homeschool, although I PLAN a lot and we eventually DO a lot. However, with the littles, our math and English time doesn't always go as I'd like it to. Often, we are running late on lunch. I spend time getting the littles down for nap. Then, I have cleaning to do or need to rest. The big kids do their science reading, piano practice, Bible notebooking and other "quiet" work during this time. (Yes, I realize piano isn't quiet, but it doesn't bother my nappers. ) On days when I am not already burned out from doing activities with the 3 yo, keeping the 18 mth. old busy and helping the older kids with their math and English, we do history together. My "plan" calls for 5 days a week. Often it ends up being 2-4 days per week. Therefore, the plan gets longer and longer. It's not just a matter of HOW MUCH I have planned, but of us actually getting to it. I worry that HOD won't necessarily help THAT part much. Part of it is exhaustion, part of it is diligence on my part, part of it is planning, part of it is dealing with "real life with toddlers", part of it is lack of diligence on the part of my kids, part of it is doing too much math! I know that is our biggest issue with school. Even MY crazy plan would work if we did less math.

Here is where I struggle. My DD really wants to be on the math team that our homeschool group has and DH likes the idea and thinks we should do it. She could start in 6th grade IF she has finished Saxon 7/6. It's NOT an equivalent thing. It's you need to be done with Saxon 7/6. You need to be starting Algebra 1/2. I would LOVE to give up Saxon and do Singapore. We would cut our math time down to about 1/3 of what it is now and we would actually get further ahead. DS has not started Saxon yet. (I don't start it until 5/4.) My kids both LOVE Singapore Math. Otherwise, I would have given THAT up a while back (when either kid started Book C of MCP). Intstead, we have done way too much math because they BEGGED to. They have been willing to do MCP and willing to do Saxon (which I was going to stick with), but they have BEGGED for Singapore. DH is not willing to give up the math team idea (and DD doesn't want to, but would obviously have to if we said) and the math team is not willing to let her join unless she is in Algebra 1/2. So, I feel STUCK. (BTW, DS age 8 in second grade is a little over halfway through 3A. As I said, DD finished 4B yesterday. So, she's right on target.)

My kids REALLY love history. They figure if we're not doing math and English and handwriting (only DS does this-- he either does copywork or a lesson from a Reason for Handwriting as his manuscript still needs work) and spelling (DS doesn't do this as often as DD), that we'll have more TIME for it.

Thank you for all of your help and patience. It's nice to have someone to bounce things off as you sort through things.

ETA: If I do go with Singapore, how do I adjust the math activities to suit my kids. My DD (5th grade next year) will be in 5A/5B and DS (3rd grade next year) will be mostly in 3B/4A. Also, for LA, DD will be finishing R&S 4 and starting R&S 5. We never used Book 2 for DD, but I would probably get that for DS. How do I adjust for that?

[MommyMc]

What is most important to you? Write out your priorities and make a mission statement for your homeschool journey. Not about which subjects to cover or when but rather how you want to guide your children to become the Christ following, independent thinkers God intends them to be.

If I were you I would go to the store buy some big plastic bins and start packing up. I would then buy the LHTH and the Bigger Hearts manuals, keep out only what I needed for those including one math program and one LA program. My hubby calls it pick it and stick with it. : )

Now Breathe. Awww! Think of all the time you’ll have to linger, cuddle, play games, and do projects. My 9dd and I are learning how to sew matching dresses for her and her little sister, all my children now have flower gardens which they planned and take care of themselves, 5ds wants to be a chef so, we spend lots of time in the kitchen cooking and baking, we have an elaborate fort in the backyard, go on field trips once a week and…well you get the idea.

I don’t mean to sound like my way is the best way but this time when our children are young goes by so quickly. When they’re up and out of the house, leading there own lives, you will probably not look back and think of which topics you covered in “5th grade” or the math program they used for algebra. You (and they) will remember however, the times you spent together being silly acting out an historical event, getting dirty building models from clay, or the time you shook up a milk jug filled with baking soda and vinegar and it EXPLODED on to the 10 foot ceiling in the kitchen (yes this actually happened to us and no I don’t recommend it).

I just re-read this. VERY helpful and inspiring! Thanks! (It also speaks to my multiple math program issue. I'm just not sure WHICH one program I should stick with.

[my3sons]

I know I need to tread lightly here, but has your dh shared the "why" behind wanting dd to be on the math team? That would be an enlightening talk to have if you haven't had it yet. If it's a social reason, is there another way that could be fulfilled? If it's academic excellence in math, Singapore will still fulfill that goal. If the reason is you've always done Saxon, and he just wants you to continue it, it might be time for a talk about how much of your day is spent doing math. In fact, if you haven't had that talk yet, you probably should anyway, just so he has an accurate view of the day. Sometimes I think my dh is completely set on an idea he is not completely set on. For instance, I thought my dh was REALLY wanting our sons to take part in the target shooting portion of 4-H. I stressed and stressed about this, because my dh travels a LOT, and the thought of me at the shooting range with my baby on my hip, hanging on to the hand of my 5 yo son, as I gave pointer about how to shoot a gun (which I've never done) to my 8 yo son as he competed at the shooting range for 4-H was enough to give me an anxiety attack... really!

When I told him about the required bi-monthly meetings, and my concern about the above scenario, he shrugged his shoulders and said, "Oh, o.k. then. I'll just take him to the shooting range myself then."

Talk about a weight being lifted off my shoulders! Could it be that your dh doesn't understand fully the situation? We need to be o.k with telling our dh's when something is "too much" for us, and we don't need to feel like failures about that. I think if the math team is still near and dear to his heart after this talk you have with him, then you have one of two options. Find a way to teach it yourself - and CUT SOMETHING ELSE out! OR, have your dh teach it.

Now, I'm back to thinking of my dear oldest sister I already mentioned though. Her dh was teaching math at 5 AM before he went to work so they could stick with Saxon math. I've already told you how that eventually turned out... which brings me back to my mantra for you... slow down... do one HOD program as written... take the summer to relax and regroup.

As far as the math activities, you can just look at the ones in the guide and alter as need be. At the older ages, they probably won't need the hands-on as much anymore.

HTH!

In Christ,
Julie