The dawdling, distracted child....and the frustrated mama

[Mom2Monkeys]

OK...I rewrote it shorter. Earlier was venting and in "go mode". This is still long but condensed. LOL


DD10 is turning 11 in a couple weeks. Going into 6th. Been with HOD since 2nd grade when I intentionally put her lower than she placed so that we could lighten our load and get to loving school again. Then life happened, a lot. So it's taken us all this time just to get through BHFHG and PHFHG. We didn't get to totally complete either. It took so long she'd already mastered skills and needed to move on b/c if she isn't challenged, she is over it. Can't stay focused. I went ahead and started her in CTC this last month, and we're in unit 4. She can finish an entire day in 3.5 hours or less, and does the extension readings. The only issue is that yes, she is completing the work in that amount of time, but I can't get her to stick to the work!!! I find her anywhere but where she belongs doing school!! The first 2 units went wonderfully...now I hear many, "I know that...that's easy." "Is this the hard part? Because it's easy to me!" So, when she is focused and stays put, her day is easy and goes quick. She loves the content of CTC and the painting. She has no problems whatsoever comprehending Story of the Ancient World or Land Animals. Her oral narrations are sooooo detailed and well done and her summary narrations are already pretty easy for her. She wishes she could make longer written narrations. I personally think her written narrations are pretty great, but she does so well b/c of the guiding questions. That is the one and only skill that held me back from doing RTR with her, and then I also wanted her to do Ancients. I know kids that are over or under placed will have focus issues b/c it's hard to focus on something that isn't at the right level for you to learn. I'm afraid she is finding this level too easy. I know it's taking all day to do school, but she can do the assignments easily and timely if I set timers, check reeealllly often just so she has the accountability, but ...I have three other kids. I have one that isn't getting school done b/c of having to check DD so often. The next starts K this fall. Then my toddler is totally in his terrible twos (I know several of you read my post about the paint and hair cutting fiasco on the HOD group on fb )

My dilema is that I feel I have done it again..I've underplaced her. I've not gotten her on the right level and it's making it too hard on her. BUT she needs the guiding questions to solidify her written narration skills. I know RTR has that for science though. But it just seemed like CTC and starting with Ancients was best...perhaps I should have gone on up to RTR? I based my choice solely on the written narrations and time period. I should have known better, maybe. She's reading the extensions at night and I'd rather NOT do the assignments with them b/c she already volunteers excellent oral narrations and I don't want more same-level work as what she's doing. She doesn't need another written narration or oral narration, IMHO. I think adding more work like that would make her dread the currently pleasurable night time extensions, and she can spot busy work a mile away...not good!

What would you do? How can I help keep her on task if the cause is lack of challenge (not that CTC isn't meaty, she's an advanced reader and gifted and on the oldest of the age range and into the extensions by grade, and it's really assignments I guess?? b/c she has those skills already in place EXCEPT written narrations without guidance) I'm really enjoying the Teacher boxes personally, and she is too, but they are super quick and easy. I mean...5-10m each sometimes except when we have to find all the parts of speech for WWTB. She's kinda tired of me reading aloud and prefers for us to read silently beside each other. She's easily doing the prophesy chart and I know when I was debating CTC or RTR and posted before, that was of great concern by many. (I think she's doing it right...I could be wrong...I expected it to be difficult but so far all have been pretty easy for her)

I don't really have funds to just shelve CTC and buy RTR. I'm not sure how to give her the challenge she needs with CTC though...and I'm hoping that challenge is what she needs to get her focus back. Challenge, but not difficult...I know math is difficult for her so she closes up, but she's finding the right level now and doing soooo much better. I want to see the same thing with the rest of school. It's really a fine line with her.

[mrsrandolph]

I don't mean to sound like a drill sergeant here, but have you thought of treating this strictly like an obedience/discipline issue? I would.

That is the kind of mom I am. I spank them from a young age and keep doing it until all the disobedience is spanked out of them.

Now, bear in mind, I have a son with special needs, and of course, I take that into consideration. However, he is no dummy. He will play his "disabilities" to his advantage and try to turn it into a manipulation tool.

I would sit down with her (along with hubby) and say that you feel that you and hubby have not been handling her laziness (call it what it is) biblically or correctly or in a way that is fair to her. Tell her that the goal of her life is to Glorify God in ALL things, and that this includes her school work. Tell her that you are going to start taking a different approach to her laziness when it comes to school and in any other areas that it affects her life.

Tell her that she will receive one warning per day about getting her attitude together and pursuing her work in a way that Glorifies God. After that, each time she has to be reminded to stay on task, she will be chastised.

This can take whatever form you and hubby believe is right. I believe that the Bible prescribes the rod for a reason. If used EFFECTIVELY (it hurts) and correctly (in love with a call to repentance) IT WORKS. Now, some folks think they can deliver 3 whacks with their hand and call that a spanking. I say, "It ain't so". You need a spanking implement. No wooden spoon or flimsy flamsy paddle. I have a BIG boy who is tough, and a long glue stick burns him up. I use it on the leg and pull the pants taught first.

Of course, if you and hubby are anti spanking, think of privledges you can take away that will REALLY hurt. Give her MANUAL LABOR. Whatever hurts.

Boy I sound mean!!!

But read this knowing that the Lord chastens us BECAUSE HE LOVES US!! And that is why we MUST chasten our children as well.

My best!

[Mom2Monkeys]

If RTR is what she needs, should I take the summer to focus on solidifying the written narrations in the history box?? I'd rather not just not do anything this summer so if I can prep her for RTR should we choose that route, how could I use CTC to prepare her if I don't use it in it's entirety but just as a summer prep course to keep moving forward? It's an amazing level but I'm learning sometimes amazing isn't good enough for this child. LOL. It's got to be downright a perfect fit.

(She has some quirks and issues...She's gifted, sensory processing issues, auditory procession issues (she can read and follow directions but can't hear my two step directions and follow through most of the time), and is either ADD or has mild aspergers. Her impulsiveness is certainly an issue and that is overcome with proper placement. if I can get her zoned in with the challenge, she can keep it pretty well. I know if this is the path to take, God will make a way.

[Mom2Monkeys]

I don't mean to sound like a drill sergeant here, but have you thought of treating this strictly like an obedience/discipline issue? I would.

That is the kind of mom I am. I spank them from a young age and keep doing it until all the disobedience is spanked out of them.

Now, bear in mind, I have a son with special needs, and of course, I take that into consideration. However, he is no dummy. He will play his "disabilities" to his advantage and try to turn it into a manipulation tool.

I would sit down with her (along with hubby) and say that you feel that you and hubby have not been handling her laziness (call it what it is) biblically or correctly or in a way that is fair to her. Tell her that the goal of her life is to Glorify God in ALL things, and that this includes her school work. Tell her that you are going to start taking a different approach to her laziness when it comes to school and in any other areas that it affects her life.

Tell her that she will receive one warning per day about getting her attitude together and pursuing her work in a way that Glorifies God. After that, each time she has to be reminded to stay on task, she will be chastised.

This can take whatever form you and hubby believe is right. I believe that the Bible prescribes the rod for a reason. If used EFFECTIVELY (it hurts) and correctly (in love with a call to repentance) IT WORKS. Now, some folks think they can deliver 3 whacks with their hand and call that a spanking. I say, "It ain't so". You need a spanking implement. No wooden spoon or flimsy flamsy paddle. I have a BIG boy who is tough, and a long glue stick burns him up. I use it on the leg and pull the pants taught first.

Of course, if you and hubby are anti spanking, think of privledges you can take away that will REALLY hurt. Give her MANUAL LABOR. Whatever hurts.

Boy I sound mean!!!

But read this knowing that the Lord chastens us BECAUSE HE LOVES US!! And that is why we MUST chasten our children as well.

My best!

We posted at the same time
We spank...and it is an issue of the heart to a point. She has EXTREME trouble though and it's not always heart. She has no bad attitude in general about school. She just can't sit still and focus when something is easy. She isn't wired that way. I've spanked, and we don't leave them just brushing it off either. We've added taking away privileges but really don't have big ones to take. We don't have video games and don't do much tv at all. They don't go out with friends. Or have phones or anything in their rooms we can take. There are times I see the attitude and I can get that out of her pretty quickly with laundry and dishes During school hours, if she isn't doing school, she does chores. We discipline what seems like all. the. time. I know there's something to it...and I know her "special needs" aren't fake or manipulated b/c she doesn't really know of a label that she has besides the sensory stuff b/c that's how we've explained physical issues. I have 3 boys, so I see typical little kid energetic, but I can see how she is different and it's not typical. So I have to keep that in mind. Her giftedness is obvious to everyone she meets then I am here with her fighting through math and just finally getting to grade level and helping her fix all those spelling errors and putting periods and capitals...that child. She's so beyond that skill and KNOWS it, but her mind is so caught up in the content and words, those "minor little things" just don't grab her attention. LOL
KWIM?? She's not on a first grade level just because she can't rememeber to capitalize or put a question mark. It's just kinda hard to explain the focus issues. It's easy...so she can't seem to get it done .

[LynnH]

My dd is ADD and gifted so I get some of what you are saying. My dd made the decision to go on meds when she was 15 because she was tired of having so much trouble focusing and having so much trouble sticking with things to the finish. I am not saying your dd needs to be on meds, but saying that my dd was like this before the med, so I understand. Honestly with her it didn't matter how exciting, challenging whatever the activity was. She would always start out all excited and gung ho and when the newness wore off she would start dawdling and want to do something different. I really think it is part of the ADD. They almost need that adrenaline rush of new things to stay on task. I ended up making her stick with things and we worked on her staying diligent and doing her best even when things weren't exciting any more. I would really think long and hard before you skip the rest of CTC. I think you will run into the same thing 4 weeks into RTR. She may find it challenging at first because it is new, but once the newness wears off and she gets in to a routine you might end up back at the same place. CTC does get more challenging as you go along. I think the biblical things alone are worth sticking with CTC. Also the guided questions for written narrations start going away and that can be a big jump for some dc.

[Gwenny]

I wonder if she knows you are wavering and knows that her behavior and her statements make you question your decisions.
Most likely she does, and that gives her power in one sense but also insecurity in another.
I would stick with your decision, stop questioning, she's still very young and immature, and she's not too old for the guide.
Be confident-at least in front of her-let her know this is what you are doing so lets do it and do it with excellence. When she says that, " this is easy, I already know that", say "Great! I'm glad! You are doing a great job! "
After several weeks, or months, if you believe that it should be skipped and move on, then just do it. She should have no part in the decision and not think that she does. You don't want her to believe that she can manipulate you to get what she wants. Make sure she doesn't hear you discussing her "special needs."
Just my 2cents.
Blessings!

[Mom2Monkeys]

good advice She wants to stay in CTC and already knows I feel her poor performance means I feel she may need harder work.
She should be on meds but we can't afford them.
I've made her a checklist and also now a report card that we will show dad after each unit and it shows what grades will be based on.
I'm to the point with her that I feel kinda like if we don't find a fix, she won't be homeachooled much longer. not that I feel that will be the best educational choice for her, but our family dynamics and my three boys' education will stop suffering.
I don't know how to fix this. and Dh compounds it when we've spent all day with school and.chores and all that we do and now I still feel like a failure bc the house isn't clean enough. argh. I can't do it all ajd getting her on.track is top.priority right now to make life here less crazy.

[Mom2Monkeys]

just fyi, my doubts and questions were actually before we started CTC bc I felt RTR is where she placed. but so many told me even CTC was so difficult for an 11yo and how hard it was so but it's just not for us. if we were new to HOD wed have gone with RTR. my doubts stem from feeling I never actually placed right to begin with. I wish I could see it in.person. they're just one hour away at convention right now. shoots!! lol

[LynnH]

I really don't know that RTR will solve the problem. RTR is harder in the areas she is struggling. The writing program is harder. She really needs to have a good command of punctuation, capitalization etc. They write some pretty long papers. You have double the written narrations and they are not guided in history. The reading as far as level goes may be a little easier. Mystery of History is easier reading than The Story of the Ancient World and often the reading are only about 5 pages. The books at the beginning or RTR have longer readings, but they really aren't harder in content. You said she enjoys the watercolor paintings and she wouldn't have that in CTC. I think the jump from Preparing is big in all areas. I think the jump from CTC to RTR is mostly a jump in writing skills.

[Mom2Monkeys]

oddly, she has a strong command of puntuation, etc. She is just a good writer with much to write about and simply doesnt do it bc her mind full of words gets ahead of her physical writing. she does awesome with r&s and rarely misses an oral review question and grasps it all very easily. she can be told she has to edit punc and capitals and do it easily. she may never spell well, but we all have our weak spots! she writes creatively for fun and does great. she makes up full songs and great poetry. if i am near, she can finish all of ctc in less than 3hrs. and do it well. there is just the concern of written narrations. the amount of writing or the writing program isnt a problem. she writes everything in ctc easily but she used to struggle with fine motor issues and her hanwriting is now sloppy, but her stamina is great. so i type out what she writes for her student notebook at her request so she can have it "super nice forever". plus we use a font that fits the ancients which "looks cool"

really just worry about narrations, but wonder how many older kids start hod totally new to cm and place in rtr, start there, and do just fine with it. Proper placement is so key to success in hod, and i know we all always say better to be the upper end of the range but she is, even for rtr. 6th grade. i wouldnt start until fall and really wish id gone with my gut and started with rtr so if it were to be too much, we could back up to ctc. Now we are doing yet another level of learning lots of content and few skills since she is beyond it except written narrations. the content is admittedly fantastic but choosing for time period is a no,no. argh!! so frustrated. she wants to stay with ctc but i think bc it is easy for her. she will be starting meds as soon as we have insurance and then we wil be moving along super easy!

plscement can be so tough without seeing it in person.

[annaz]

But here's another thought. If the work is too easy, then she should prove it to you by getting it done completely and in a timely manner. She is not doing it all completely, neatly or timely. Once she can do "all" the work, then I would think about possible replacement. You are typing her work and she should be working on her handwriting, learning to make it fit in the book and be readable. There is tons of writing in RTR.

Unit 4 is still at the beginning of the guide. Things progress. If she's dawdling and distracted she needs to prove to you that she won't dawdle or be distracted. The work gets fuller and these aspects are part of learning, not just the academics. The work isn't "hard" per se. The work is full.

If you move up in guides before getting these distractions taken care of then it'll only compound itself. Tell her this. Do it all, do it neatly, do it timely and the best of your ability and then we'll think about moving up. But I wouldn't move her until she can get the disciplines down.

[Molly]

I was going to comment earlier but had to go and now have read all the responses. Can she become accountable to your husband for her independent work, and also have her other work shown to him daily? I too think this sounds far more like a discipline issue. I really get what you are saying about her abilities, but I also have found with my girls, the biggest issue is not that the work is too easy, it is the fact that the work is not done to the very best of their abilities. My girls are both hard workers when they choose to be, but there are times that they really rush through it, or they choose to muck around. Being accountable to Dad often makes it that bit more important to them to get it done.

The other thing is perhaps you could reward in some ways for having completed everything well and in a timely manner. I am trying this with my blossoms at the moment, and they are putting in more effort to get it done well, but in good time.

My oldest, although she doesn't have learning disabilities, is doing Preparing now with extensions. She could be doing RtR or even RevtoRev now, but we are going to have her complete Preparing and then move her to RtR. We would prefer not to skip CtC but have decided it better to challenge her a little more (most likely she will still read the extensions). But throughout it all, my main aim is that she is diligent and hardworking when it comes to her work, so that she will be diligent and hardworking when she is older.

I don't think I've made a great deal of sense.

The other thing I thought was whether you can do a five day week and have her move through CtC a bit quicker to move her to the next guides.

[Molly]

Is she doing the extensions?

[mrsrandolph]

There is a product avail at Health Food Stores called "Calm Child" that has helped some kids I know that were ADHD and not medicated. FWIW

[LynnH]

I agree with annaz in that since you are typing her work that I would focus on having her improve in that area. If you think the sloppy handwriting is due to not slowing down and taking her time then I would focus on that. If it is something like dysgraphia, which my ds has, then I would have her really working on her typing skills so that by the time she gets to RTR she can type all her own stuff. What do you do about all the copywork that she has to write in her notebook? Is she doing that? As I said my ds has dysgraphia so I get that for some kids their handwriting is never going to be what it should be no matter how hard they try. However he does do all the copywork even if he does it on a white piece of paper that is the same width of the notebook box, but longer so he can fit it in. We then just fold it up. He types all his own narrations, research postcards etc. He doesn't use all 10 fingers to type yet, but we are hitting that hard this summer to see if he can do this. It takes him longer probably to do a narration than someone who is writing it, but he does it independently. I really would not move her up to RTR until she can either type her own or write her own stuff legibly. Their is a ton of writing in RTR. If you are going to have to type it all for her that will actually pull you away from your younger kids more. I think part of being ready for a guide is finding a way that works for them to write/type in the boxes in a legible manner, without you stepping in.

She really is in the right guide as far as her age. I really would focus on her sticking on task, so you don't have to keep checking on her and on the above things. Those things are just as important if not more in deciding if dc are ready for the next guide. And also as others have said CTC really picks up in the middle of the guide as far as challenge.