HoD vs MFW

[jenniferblake]

Hey all! I hope you can give me some insight- I know the general HoD vs MFW topic has been beaten nearly to death, but I have a few substitutions I need to make and was curious if you could give me insight how that would work best with MFW vs HoD. I'm posting a similar thing on their message boards to get the opinion on that end as well. I'm trying to decide between Adventures and Bigger Hearts for my 8 year old son.

First let me say I used MFW K and liked it OK, but I had to supplement the heck out of it to keep my kid's interest. He was an older K (6) and is apparently gifted, but has dyslexia as well (which was just recently diagnosed). That being said, I was not a fan of the phonics and math part of the K program. For that reason I did not use MFW for 2nd or 3rd grade, instead pieced together my own stuff using Galloping the Globe as a very loose spine. We've enjoyed our trek around the world, and are looking to do some American History for 3rd grade, which led me back to MFW with Adventures, and HoD with Bigger Hearts. He's the only kiddo I have, so I don't need to worry about combining anything. He loves the living books, and is eager to learn anything about history and science and I need to present information slightly above his grade level to keep him from getting bored (his favorite shows are mythbusters, top shot, jeff corwin, pawn stars, time warp trio, time blazers etc.)

Here's my issues: I'm planning to use whatever curriculum the Dyslexia Foundation recommends for our phonics/spelling/writing, which I won't know about until after our summer reading program (4 straight weeks of 8:00-3:30 for both of us. This should quell the questions about how real school works ). I'm also happy with our McRuffy Math and our Bible Study Guide for All Ages curriculum. I'm also pretty pleased with our science curriculum. This leaves me just wanting something to tie in the more humanities programs- social studies/history, art, music, literature. I know both are designed so I can plug in my own math/LA so that is perfect. It doesn't seem like the Bible part will take too long, so I should be able to still use my BSGAA 2x a week without him getting burned out. I LOVE that program! I know MFW and HoD both use lots of living books, which I love since I have access to a fantastic library system here in Memphis.

Here's what I like on the front end about each program:

MFW- curriculum is "subject heavy" for 4 days, and a lighter 5th day which lets me have time for my co-op.
has hundreds of book suggestions (but I can do this on my own using a simple library search if need be)
hands on activities
incorporates overview of the 50 states
inludes classical music into the program

HoD- incorporates poetry and hymns
allows for choices among the read alouds (we have already read many of the ones used in MFW) from many genres.
reading program is tied into the area of study and includes emerging reader options.
art is tied to specific topics, not a program
biographical perspective on history

Things I am NOT crazy about the programs on the front end:

MFW- does not include poetry, hymns weekly
does not offer different read aloud options
does not include reading program that ties in (with emerging readers or otherwise)
Art Program is I Can Do All Things, not tied into the topics

HoD- does not inlude classical music, does not include state overviews
seems like it might be a little below his level, where as the next level up seems a little too advanced.
Science seems weak, I know it is tied into the theme, but for my kiddo he wants more experiments etc.

So, I'm basically wanting to combine the two Anyone want to do that for me ? I'd be open to finding a stand alone curriculum for the American History if there was a similar one out there that I think we'd like. I could always add my own read alouds and living books, poetry and music too.

Anyone have suggestions for using HoD and using your own science, Bible etc?

I have a friend loaning me the Bigger Hearts books to peruse, but I don't have access to the Adventures stuff to look at it. I think I'd like to get a better idea- especially using the main "spine" book that is proprietary to MFW for the history. The website just includes one lesson and that doesn't show any of the student materials either.

Thanks for reading my long rambling saga

[Kristen]

HoD- does not inlude classical music, does not include state overviews
seems like it might be a little below his level, where as the next level up seems a little too advanced.
Science seems weak, I know it is tied into the theme, but for my kiddo he wants more experiments etc.

Just my first impressions here, I'm sure others will chime in and can provide more detailed help. I believe HOD does include classical music in some of the higher levels as well as state overviews. I've never used MFW, but I have looked at it. I find HOD to be very personalized for each child (My ds10 is also dyslexic.). When you look at the placement chart and get your child in the right placement, things will be at the right level. You can beef things up in different areas as well. Maybe if you see where he places on the placement chart, we can help in a more personal way. Here is a link to that. http://www.heartofdakota.com/placing-your-child.php
Hope that helps some.
Kristen

[jenniferblake]

When you look at the placement chart and get your child in the right placement, things will be at the right level. You can beef things up in different areas as well. Maybe if you see where he places on the placement chart, we can help in a more personal way.

Thanks! He's def in the "Bigger Hearts" category, the next level up is past him in most ways- writing/reading/phonics/english curriculum. I think the science in HoD will be TOO easy for him as that is his strongest subject, he's much more experiment driven, but I can supplement it to be sure easily enough.

[farmfamily]

Well, I think they're probably both good choices. I've heard good things from a friend about MFW, and I KNOW that HOD is wonderful from experience!

After prayerfully considering which curriculum meets your needs best, I would suggest not messing with it too much. Part of the beauty of HOD is being able to open the guide, and have a well-rounded schoolday all set up for you. The Bible readings in Bigger tie in with the history readings - as does the science. I think you could easily do BSGAA twice a week as well as Bigger (I have used that Bible Study). I think you might be pleasantly surprised with the quality of the science activities in Bigger (we used Bigger half of this year, but I dropped my 2nd grader back b/c the writing was too much for her). If you still yearn for more after doing it as written for a while, you could always add in some extra science.

Classical music is easy to add in too - you could use the Opal Wheeler biographies (Zeezok publishing - I think Carrie mentioned them on a different thread) or Color the Classics. I think 1 composer every 12 weeks is what CM recommends.

As the pp said, if you place your son correctly using the placement chart, I don't think you will find the level too low or too high.

The state study is included in a higher level of HOD, I believe. Personally, I think kids at this age probably have a hard time retaining too much info about 50 different states. I consider delaying the state study an advantage of HOD! But it's also something you could probably add if you really wanted to and you had the time. Select your add-ins carefully, though - since if you are anything like us, you will find the guide as written to be plenty of work for each day.
HTH

[Mom2Monkeys]

Have you read the one week sample of the Bigger guide to see how things are done. They're are experiments and lab sheets and note booming with the science and I don't think you'd find it boring or light. in fact, I find it easier to implement and more fun that most textbook programs and though it seems light, the fact it's simple to implement and is so living with so much interaction with the material, the level of retention and lasting impressions left make it for more effective and increases retention by leaps and bounds. To me, that makes it better than a "heavier" science. No matter how heavy or rigorous a program is, if it isn't retained, it's suddenly quite light!

Music and art and everything is included in HOD. The books are more living as for what is used for lessons whereas we felt the life of MFW was mostly in the book basket list. MFW was so repetitious and bored us to tears. HOD has a pattern and flow but there is variety and it doesn't feel like it's the "same worksheet, different state". Also, HOD includes geography and works on the states in Bigger. I remember my oldest writing out cards to learn state's and capitals and the state are studied as they pertain to the history. So it's not a study of Florida and then Arkansas and then Idaho or whatever. You may learn about Virginia in several different units with each exposure do wring different info depending on what the lesson is for history. I may have not explained it well as its been some time since we did this.

We are far happier with HOD in so many ways tha we ever were with MFW. Are worst days with HOD we still come out happier than our good days with MFW. It really was a poor fit for us and always felt like it was missing something. Whatever it was, I found it with HOD.

ETA: we casually add in classical music by listening to Themes to Remember. Adds no time to our school day and we've all learned so much!

[creativemommy]

Just my 2 cents about Bigger science & history...

My son is 8yo/2nd grade and is in Bigger this year. He LOVES science! I was worried it wouldn't be enough for him this year but it is! He loves it! It is scheduled everyday with experiments twice a week, note booking and reading fun books...not a dry textbook. He has learned about a variety of science topics already. I'm very happy with it. It is easy to add extras, searching for specific pictures, videos, articles online.

As for history, the readings are fantastic and the notebooking is fun for him. He often tells my husband what he has learned over dinner.

[annaz]

This has nothing to do with combining, but when I used MFW I found several books we couldn't use due to different levels. I either was paraphrasing like crazy or the books were way too young. They tried to emcompass such a large age range that we ended up with several books that were just a lousy fit. Granted, I have one kid, but even so, many were not on level for my one kid. I was still paraphrasing and still tossing children's books.

Also, I found several of the books and mainly the spines extremely dry and I was really turned off by them being a Christian curriculum provider yet the books they chose were completely opposite; Usborne and DK mainly and a few others that were used because they said, "they contained good pictures". I know DK some things were removed or rewritten, but you still wonder that we're giving money to DK. I realize some providers do what they have to do to make money, but this was a real turn off for me. They're using evolutionary publishers to fund missions. And the fact that they use Rick Warren in a later program really gave me a bad taste. I've never looked at a catalog since.

I just think there are so many wonderful books, and Christian publishers out there that could be used, and frankly I'd rather pack a Christian publisher's pocket than non. So I found myself asking what they really stood for? The missions focus was great, however not at the expense of their choice in books.

So it would depend upon your beliefs or needs. I realize MFW works great for some people. I feel HOD is completely Christian and it shows it is their main focus. As MFW uses bookbasket, you could do the same with HOD for money reasons, just like instead of using a library you could buy book basket books. So don't let money in that way persuade. I just love that HOD stands for what they believe and it's clear in every book they use and by their forums.

[8arrows]

I have used all of MFW elementary (except Adventures, ECC). I find good points in both programs, and I am so glad we have Christian choices. I strongly prefer HOD science, writing, grammar, and projects. I also prefer the daily lesson format, and I love the notebooking pages at the higher levels. I am really enjoying the book choices as well. Although I like the MFW book basket idea, it does not get accomplished very well at our house. One of the main reasons that I prefer HOD is that it gradually encourages independent learning. This is so essential as the children reach upper elementary and high school. You can certainly do just the parts you mentioned; however, I would encourage you to use as much of the guide as you can. I am finding that very beneficial to completing shorter, more pleasant school days. You can add to HOD if there is something you dearly love. That is one of the beauties of HOD. Just be careful to add or substitute as little as possible. After Bigger, all the guides are set up as 4 day guides, so I see that as similar to MFW, and easy for your co-op duties. You could certainly do Bigger 4 days a week instead of 5 and just stretch the guide out a little.

[ForHisGlory]

Hi there, you have gotten really good responses (and things I didn't realize about MFW)! I am not certain my reply will help at all, but I will give you my experience.

Here we go! Our very first year homeschooling was almost 3 years ago, and at that time, my oldest was first grade and Evan was only 3 1/2. I prayed over what to choose, and God lead me to MFW. It was economical, Christ-centered, and easy to use! I do not regret our time with MFW. We used the first grade package. I felt that we grew tremendously in our walk with Christ. Our days were simple, yet Ethan learned a lot and his reading took off like a wildfire! Evan even learned a lot, and that is when he developed his love for science.

Here is what I was the challenge with MFW; the TM sort of just became bland after about day 120. It was not thorough, and so we stopped and didn't "finish" our year. Now I do not have experience with for example, ECC or the "higher" levels or guides or whatever you want to call them. I do have friends who have used ECC, and they found it boring (their wording, not mine). Those friends did not finish MFW either. I think we are all so different in personality and teacher style that what one family may like, another might find dry, and vice versa.

This year was my first year to homeschool Evan (Kinder). He is my only earthly child now, so we only use LHFHG. There are many differences between MFW and HOD, but they are also similar, and I too have seen many forums in which people compare the two. The message board here at HOD has been, in and of itself, a HUGE blessing! These are some of the most godly and loving women. They have prayed for me and loved me in the midst of my grief and hardships, and I see this throughout the board. Carrie and Julie (author and editor) are blessings too, and they make themselves available to all of us! To me, this is a HUGE asset when I considered HOD. Also, I can say for myself that emotionally, I have not been up to planning every day, and so HOD's "open and go" guide has blessed me more than I realized (until recently). I may have a bad day, but you know what, we almost always have a blessed day with HOD because Carrie makes it so easy yet so rich and fun!

MOST importantly, I want to tell you to pray and listen for God's voice in your decision. Of course, I am sure you already know that! There are so many options out there for Christian homeschool curriculum, and I know that for myself, I find myself oohing and ahhing over this and that, and thinking, wow...I should try that! But why change? Evan has grown so much this year.

You know your children best and what will work best. Wishing you abundant blessings in your choice!

[netpea]

I'm trying to decide between Adventures and Bigger Hearts for my 8 year old son.

I have used MFW's Adventures and I have used HOD's LHTH, LHFHG, BLHFHG, and BHFHG.

Just a note, Adventures is not the same level as Bigger. Adventures is the same level as Beyond.

[Heidi in AK]

Julie's written a great comparison of the two curricula. I've only used HOD's LHTH and LHFHG, and haven't looked at MFW, although I considered using it.

Here's her thread.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1446

[ninipelley]

annaz said it best
"it would depend upon your beliefs or needs. I realize MFW works great for some people. I feel HOD is completely Christian and it shows it is their main focus. As MFW uses bookbasket, you could do the same with HOD for money reasons, just like instead of using a library you could buy book basket books. So don't let money in that way persuade. I just love that HOD stands for what they believe and it's clear in every book they use and by their forums."

I also believe the value of the Bible/Character study in Bigger cannot be overlooked. My girls are the perfect age (just 9) to understand these so very important values and they are brought to life & real example through comparison to the Bible and the characters in the history readings in Bigger.

I started co-homeschooling with a very dear friend who has used MFW K-Adventures and this yr joined us for Bigger. They LOVE it and their dd (9yr) said "I LOVE your school, it's so much fun". Just an added bonus, you know that the kids LOVE school.

At first I wasn't sure about the hymns, but have so grown to love them and appreciate that my girls enjoying singing them. My great-grandmother was amazed she knew all the words to "Amazing Grace" in church. It's grown to be my favorite part of the day, hearing their sweet voices sing God's loving words.

I hope this helps with your decision in some way.
God Bless,
Nici

[georgiamomof3]

You have definitely been given some wonderful advice and input. When we started homeschooling 4 years ago, we began with MFW Adventures. My daughter and I really enjoyed some of the projects, especially the cooking projects. We really enjoyed the reading, but found a disconnect between the Bible, history, and science. HOD definitely does a fantastic job of coordinating the different subjects together. We also found that after 'studying' our 5th state, we were incredibly bored with the program and almost didn't finish. I do agree with the PP who mentioned that MFW Adventures is more similar to HOD's Beyond. Many of the book choices are the same and I feel are more appropriate for 2nd grade than 3rd. I've used MFW Adventures for 3rd grade, and will use Bigger next year with our second child, who will be in 3rd grade. The choice this time around was hands-down HOD!

JoAnna

[Tracee]

I just wanted to mention that I have one of those boys also. He was diagnosed as being severely dyslexic at 6 1/2, but was also diagnosed as being gifted on visual processing and visual spatial skills. He's very bright when it comes to the higher level thinking skills but struggles with basic skills like rote memorization, reading, writing (he can't remember which way the letters go). I completely understand what you are saying about not wanting to get something that is below his level. It's a struggle when you hear them speaking about things beyond their years, yet you know that they are struggling with basic skills like phonics and decoding.

First of all, my ds is doing Beyond at 7/8. He will actually be 8 1/2 when we start Bigger. To some, the science in Beyond may seem light, but I've come to the conclusion that it actually works for us. Just about everything that we've done in science ds already knew, but we do it any way. It doesn't take long, and because HOD is so open and go, ds has had time to explore outside, or do his own experiments in the house (not always fun for me ). Here in Florida, science always seems to come to us. We've had several mammals, birds, reptiles, amphibians, and insects come visit us. We've gone on several science based field trips and look lots of stuff up on the computer. If your ds is anything like mine, he must love legos. We started using lego robotics as part of our school work. It focuses on science, technology, engineering and math. With HOD, you will have time to incorporate any other extra activities you might want.

For my ds the last thing he needs right now is a formal program to teach him about science. Those kind of programs are going to require him to do some reading and writing that he's not ready for. When we get to Bigger next year, I can see the science being a perfect fit, and even then, I may have to modify some of the writing to accommodate him.

If I were you, and you choose HOD, I would stick with Bigger. It will be enough. You are going to have your hands full when you start a reading/spelling program with him. Also, I'm afraid if you go too far ahead in the guides, you are going to have to modify so much to accommodate him that you are going to be missing the intent of the guide. Have you looked at the placement chart? If not, look at the placement chart and the first week of Bigger.


I hope that helps,
Tracy


Edited to add: There are many of us using HOD with our dyslexic dc and find it an awesome fit. I don't know much about MFW, but we are loving HOD. At this point, I can't imagine using anything else.