Back with HOD - Placement?

[Kristen]

Hi Ladies,
I've always been so encouraged by this board and I need some help again. I feel like I'm back and forth with placing my kids. I start and stop, and try to put my own programs together but I always seem to come back to HOD. I just love this program and want to make it work. I read something on another post about when you have the right placement things flow so much better, and I think that's what's been missing. I don't think I've made the right placement. Things come up in our lives or things change or, for example, we found out my ds10 is dyslexic so we need to adjust. I have fond memories (and my kids learned so much) way back when my two oldest were my only's and I combined them in Beyond and Bigger. I want to have that again.
Anyway, my questions are mostly for my two oldest - ds11 (will be 12 in April) and ds10.
My ds4 (turing 5 in August) will be starting Little Hearts in Sept. He is eager to "do school," he knows all his letter sounds, does a great job of sounding out and reading small words, can write his name, enjoys being read to, can memorize scripture. Good placement, right??
We also have a dd2 in April who is tagging along.
So, last year at this time I was finishing up Bigger with the older two and I knew they were a little older for it but I wanted to finish and they were enjoying it. So last fall I tried to make a placement appropriate for their ages and "jumped" ahead. I put ds11 in CTC and ds10 was going to start Preparing. We only made it one week in CTC and I stopped. DS11 had not done much writing, did not like reading fiction and was working on dictation but his spelling was not great. His actual reading ability is probably advanced but his comprehension is average (if that makes sense). He is a very concrete, black and white kid so the literature stuff is hard for him. I tried doing DITHOR Level 2/3 with him, but he has a hard time with hypothetical questions and the stories did not really hold his interest because they were for younger kids. The stumbling block, I think, with CTC at that time was that he could do all the boxes but it took him forever. It was taking literally all day from about 9-4 or later to do the work. I said we could do some another day (like half-speed) but he is a box-checker type and did not like leaving things undone each day. He enjoyed the work itself but there was just a lot of it. So after that I just pieced together my own stuff. He completed Apologia's Exploring Creation with Astronomy with the notebook, which he loved. He finished it early because he did it everyday instead of the two-day a week schedule in the book. He's working on spelling with Apples Daily Drills. He completed Easy Writing (same co. as Easy Grammar) and is going to start Writing Strands. He read "The Wright Bros and Their Sister" and a book on Eli Whitney and wrote a report summarizing each one. He is also working on Math-U-See. History has been piece meal, just sort of interest-led. He has a big interest in American History, specifically the world wars and the airplanes.
DS10 on the other hand, has always struggled with reading, but I thought it was a maturity thing at first. Lately I began to realize it could be something more. I was going to start Preparing with him this year but I realized it was way over his head. He was 9 at the time (10 in Dec.) but he was reading at about a 2nd grade level with difficulty. I knew he could not do any of the reading in Preparing. In Sept. I had him tested and found out he is dyslexic. It was recommended he work with a tutor who specializes in dyslexia to learn to read. Trying to keep this a little bit shorter.... ..... the tutor is working out perfectly. She's extremely homeschool friendly, and works with him once a week on learning his letter sounds, decoding, spelling, dictation, and math. We continue the work the rest of the week at home. He also has to read 15 min/day outloud with me. And even though it is still hard for him, he has made great progress in only a few months. So that area of his education is all set for now, but I still have to work on history, science and literature with him.
So now my actual questions ....... I probably could have done Preparing with both of them this year (with more read-alouds to the younger), but anyway...... should I try CTC again with my oldest, ds11 (12 in April)? I think he is better able to handle the reading and writing, and maybe try DITHOR Level 4/5? I think he places mostly in CTC from the placement chart. I really want to do some literature with him because he needs it and I can't keep giving in because it's hard or he doesn't understand it.
Should I try Preparing again with my ds10? and maybe adjust the reading as necessary until he can do it more on his own?
Should I put them both in Preparing with extensions for the older? The younger could probably do some of Bigger but we did most of it. There are about 8-9 weeks left in the teacher's manual. Should I finish that with ds10 this year so he can build his skills to be ready for Preparing in the fall?
I'm sort of anxious to start something this year, but then I feel off-track starting in the middle of the school year. I just hate to wait.... I need a plan. Help!!
Thanks!
Kristen

[lmercon]

Hey, Kristin,
I have a severely dyslexic 10 yo ds too! He's had the diagnosis for almost 2 yrs. I truly believe that he should be educated at his comprehension level, not his reading level. So, I have gone ahead with the levels of HOD, realizing that I'll just have to do more with him. I really think putting them both in Preparing would be a great place to get started with HOD again. It's a great year-long sweep of world history, so it would be a great starting point for the following years where the time periods are studied more in depth. Preparing was one of my favorites! Maybe the boys could even work together with some of the activities, with your stronger reader doing most of the reading aloud. Or, while your older ds is working independently, you could work one-on-one with your 10 yo. There would be lots of options, and yet you are still only managing one program (except for the younger dc, of course). Keeping them in the same program just seems a whole lot more doable, to me.
hth,
Laura

[Kristen]

Thanks, Laura. Yeah, you're right about him being educated according to his comprehension, not his reading level. When he was tested, his reading was about age 7 but his comprehension was about age 11-12. That's helpful to remind myself. It was actually recommended that he listen to some of his material "on tape" so he can keep up with his grade level.
Oh, and I forgot to mention in my post - I don't know how I forgot anything it's already a novel - I did some of Preparing with both of them in 2009 then I went back to Bigger which was a much better fit at the time. I'm all over the place, huh? LOL.
Thanks for reading all of this.
Kristen

[8arrows]

I would put both of them in Preparing and start at the beginning. You can use the extensions with the older if that works. If not, focus on the core. Consistency and a good year are more important than repeating a little bit of a program. If you place it in a good light and act excited about it, I bet they will be too. Preparing is one of my favorite years. It is also such a great starting point for so many of the skills that you have mentioned might be stumbling blocks for the boys. They will have a great time, cement all those skills, and can learn together for the rest of their schooling.

[Kristen]

Thanks for the great advice. I'm torn because I would like to keep them together but I think the older one really needs to do more independent stuff. I keep thinking, he's almost 12. He likes independent work at this point... also he has done a whole Apologia book and is ready to start another so he can do some of that reading/writing independently..... But if he needs the skills in Preparing I wouldn't want to push him either.....
I just don't know.
What if I start them both now, but ds11 half-speed in CTC and ds10 half-speed in Preparing and then in the fall maybe get up to full speed?
Or I could start them both in Preparing with extensions for ds11. He is strong in non-fiction, but really weak in fiction. Hmmmm....
Maybe Carrie or Julie will also respond when they get a chance.
Thanks for helping me work this all out.
Kristen

[Carrie]

Kristen,

Welcome back! I agree with the ladies' wise assessment that from everything you've shared this far I would lean toward placing both of your boys in Preparing Hearts together. However, I do want to clarify though that your 10 year old is able to do copywork and was able to do much of the writing that was in Bigger Hearts when he went through that program when he was younger? Or, did you find yourself modifying much in the way of writing for him? How does he do now as far as written work goes? This will also make a big difference in his readiness for Preparing Hearts.

I look forward to hearing back from you when you get a chance.

Blessings,
Carrie

[Kristen]

Thanks, Carrie, for confirming that for me. Preparing does seem like the next logical step. It will be nice to have them back in the same program again. I talked with my husband tonight and he confirmed it also - don't skip anything! They need to get the skills and they need that consistency.
Yes, I seem to remember my ds10 doing most, if not all, of the copywork when we worked on Bigger. Writing (the actual printing) was, and still is, a bit of a challenge for him because of his LD but I think he can do appropriate work.
I had another lightbulb moment when I realized what you all are talking about when you say with the right placement it just flows. When we did Bigger it was fun and seemed almost too easy. That's why I jumped ahead. I realize now it was flowing! Right?
Well, now I hope we are on the right track. And if I get in a bind, I'll come here first instead of trying to tweak it on my own.
Should I try to do the extensions with my oldest? Or just wait and see how it goes first? I'm leaning towards waiting. Also, does DITHR level 2/3 for younger and 4/5 for older sound right?
I guess that's it for now. Thanks again. You guys are truly a blessing!
Kristen

[Carrie]

Kristen,

Thanks so much for sharing a bit more about your kiddos. That really helps! I agree that Preparing sounds like a good fit for your older two boys.

For your 11 year old, you may wish to consider doing studied dictation. It is such a good method for all kiddos to learn to capture entire sentences and passages in their mind and reproduce them correctly. There are 3 levels of dictation passages in the back of Preparing, so you could start in whatever level suited your oldest son best.

As far as DITHR goes for your oldest son, I do think that Level 4/5 is a good starting point. However, I would make sure to choose a Book Pack level that is suited to his reading level. So, you will likely want to look at the 5/6 Boy Pack or the 6/7 Pack to use with DITHR for him. Here are the links to those packages. 5/6: http://www.heartofdakota.com/DITHOR56-boys-pack.php
6/7: http://www.heartofdakota.com/DITHOR67.php

One other option would be to use the Boy Interest Set from CTC with DITHR, as these are also divided by genre so they will work with DITHR. If, however, you may use the Boy Interest Set from CTC the following year as read-alouds, then don't use them now with DITHR. Link to CTC Boy Set: http://www.heartofdakota.com/hearts-for ... -early-boy

I'm not sure what you have used for grammar with your boys in the past, but we would recommend Rod and Staff. If your 11 year old hasn't had much in the way of diagramming or solid formal grammar yet, we would recommend Rod and Staff English 4 for him. This is scheduled within Preparing. We plan for you to do much of it orally or on a whiteboard with only one-third written on paper. It would also be wise to consider adding a once a week writing program (while still having him do the writing assignments within Preparing). We would recommend Igniting Your Writing Vol. I in this situation. You could do it once weekly on your free 5th day. Link: http://www.heartofdakota.com/drawn-into ... p#igniting

Last, with your oldest son, since he seems to have a love for Apologia's series, you could consider having him do an Apologia book only on Day 5 each week. You will likely wish to stay away from Zoo. 3, as we use this in CTC. We also use Apologia's Exploring Creation with Astronomy, which your son has already done. This will help raise the level of the science, but I would not replace the science in Preparing, as your son will need those skills as he heads into CTC the following year.

I would lean toward having your 11 year old son do the Extension Package, as in Preparing the Deluxe Pacakge will likely be better suited for your next son in line and the Extension books will likely fit your 11 year old better.

As far as your 10 year old goes, I would use the Deluxe Package books with him. You will likely need to read these aloud to him. I would have your 11 year old read his own science and his own Extension Package books. You may need to read the science to your 10 year old.

As far as the history books go in the "Reading About History" box, you will need to read them aloud to your 10 year old but can decide whether you want your 11 year old to read these himself or whether he will listen in as you read them aloud to your 10 year old. Either way will work.

You will read the "Storytime" books in the Basic Package aloud to both of them.

As far as grammar goes for your 10 year old, I would lean toward Rod and Staff English 3 with him. If he has had some formal grammar already (and some basic diagramming), he could join your 11 year old in English 4 instead. English 3 and 4 are both scheduled in Preparing Hearts.

For your 10 year old, I'm not sure if you want to begin DITHR yet. Since he is progressing well in his reading right now and is receiving the special help he needs in that area, I'd be more likely to wait on DITHR another year for your 10 year old.

Blessings,
Carrie

[lmercon]

Thanks for the great advice. I'm torn because I would like to keep them together but I think the older one really needs to do more independent stuff.

Beginning in Preparing, and really accelerating through CTC, there is quite a bit of independent work for your 11 ds. I do not think you'll need to go searching for something to fill up his time. Each level increases the independent work. I think you'll be very happy starting again with Preparing. One thing you may want to consider is whether you want to read aloud the history readings to both boys at the same time, or whether you'll want to have your 11 ds read independ. while you work with your 10 ds on something else. Once you get going, you'll probably have a better feel as to what works better for your boys. Some kids work great together. Some prefer working independ. You'll probably also want to watch carefully how your dyslexic ds is perceiving himself in comparison with his brother. Dyslexic dc can be VERY sensitive about the issue because, no matter how much you explain to contrary, they still think of themselves as dumb.
Laura

[Kristen]

Wow, Carrie. Thanks so much for the detailed post. That is so helpful.
I am really excited about doing Preparing with them and really getting into it. Last time we started it we skipped some things and obviously they weren't ready.
Some of the things you suggested I was thinking about anyway, such as doing the Preparing science with both boys but adding in an Apologia for ds11 on the 5th day. He wants to do anatomy next. I really appreciate the extra writing program for him also, he needs that. He was doing dictation when we left off in Bigger so he can pick up right where he left off. He also started R&S 4 so we can continue with that as well.
The suggestions for ds10 are great also. The more I thought about DITHR with him I kept questioning what level but I appreciate your suggestions. I feel so good about being able to use HOD with him and have him get the most out of it without overwhelming him but allowing him to feel good about school.
I'm going to print this out and really digest it, but my only questions at this point are for ds11:
1. You suggested doing the extensions - does he do this in addition to the deluxe history or instead of? What writing/narration/activities go with it?
2. You also suggested he do DITHR 4/5 - that would be the student workbook right? You suggested the higher level books with it, either 5/6 or 6/7. Now with those I know his actual reading is up there, but I'm wondering if he can comprehend at that level. He is the kid (I've posted about it in the past) who says he does not like fiction, has not read much fiction, and he is very black and white, cannot think hypothetically. This is why I really want to get into DITHR with him. I'm just wondering if he should start with the 4/5 boys or even the 3 book packs?

Laura,
Your comments are so true and heart-touching. I think ds11 will definitely have enough to keep him busy and I'm excited to start. I was also wondering how they will do together because you described my ds10 perfectly. Older brother is not always very compassionate either, so we will have to work out how we do this. DS11 may have enough with the extensions and extra science, etc. that he will feel his needs are being met while ds10 will be able to do some things independently that he'll feel proud. kwim? It's all a learning process for me too!
Thanks so much!
Kristen

[lmercon]

Well, you just tell your sweet, little guy what I have told mine. "Normal" brains' left hemispheres are about 15% bigger than the right hemispheres. Dyslexics have equally BIG hemispheres, so the brain is actually bigger! It's just wired differently, which makes it hard to understand written symbols, but dyslexics are able to think in very special ways that, "normal" brains can't. I tell my ds that God made him this way to grow his character has he struggles and trusts God through this difficulty and because God has big plans for him to use all of that out-of-the-box way of thinking.

It really is all about encouragement, encouragement, encouragement!

If you google a list of famous people with dyslexia, you'll get a fantastic, surprising list! DiVinci, Babe Ruth, Einstein, etc.
Blessings,
Laura

[Kristen]

Laura,
Your post brought tears to my eyes. He does have many other gifts such as a great memory and compassion for others. He is such a social kid and can relate unusually well with adults. But he doesn't always see those as gifts right now.
I do try to encourage and I know God has good plans for all our kids (and us!). When he found out he had dyslexia he was excited to hear others who have it too (including his dad). He went around telling everyone, "guess what? I found out I'm dyslexic. And you know who else is? my dad, albert einstein, thomas edison, winston churchill...." Unfortunately, my husband grew up thinking (and still sometimes thinks) he is just dumb. He is incredibly mechanically inclined. He slipped through the cracks and had to compensate on his own to get by. Anyway, with God's help, I feel we are really changing how things could have gone for my son.
Thanks for blessing me today!
Kristen