Need Wisdom: DS in LHfHG, advanced LA

[mater est laetus]

DS loves LhfHG. However, *sigh*, he placed higher for LA and instead of getting another guide I ended up supplementing with other things to make up for it and it's not going well.

DS is only 5.5 and is very much a 5.5yo boy maturity wise. He is a prolific storyteller. He has exponentially bloomed with this just recently. He has almost neat handwriting (vacillates, he's not always concerned about that) and knows how to form upper and lowercase print. He does like to experiment with creative letter formation however, along with inventing his own fonts or copying the decorative ones he sees in print. He will incorporate this into his regular writing randomly (he also has his mother's pencil grip of death) so I still feel the need to keep an eye on him when he's writing but I started ARFH A with him in the beginning and dropped that for daily copywork into which I have been incorporating basic grammar. He writes for fun, composing his own sentences and seems to be writing up to two (or the equivalent of, in the form of complex, run on sentences - a tendency also possibly inherited from his mother) in a sitting. The problem is reading and spelling.

When I first placed DS he hadn't progressed too far in phonics but a few months later he is now able to decode almost anything but at the same time, still making simple errors (random eg, "faculty" and "theory" he could read, but "back" would initially come out as "bake" and vice versa). What is needed here? More phonics instruction/review or more reading or both?

Secondly, spelling. *sigh* He is NOT a natural speller though he tries to apply rules of phonics and syllabication. I had Spelling Workout which he has been breezing through but let's just say he isn't doing it for fun. He vacillates between just getting it done to please me (as good as it is for a child to desire to please their parents, this isn't the educational motive I'm wanting) and being a real pill about it (perhaps because the work is a pill to him?). I have been finding myself looking ahead at future guides, curious about how this studied dictation is done. What should I do?

The parts of LHFHG we're able to do as is are delightful. I want it ALL to be delightful! Help!

[blessedmomof4]

Off the top of my head, perhaps you could consider adding the basics of Beyond, to give him higher yet age-appropriate grammar, copywork, spelling, and the Emerging Readers which are scheduled in Beyond's appendix along with comprehension questions (instead of any other supplemental work) and whatever math you are using. You could continue with the history, Bible, and science from Little Hearts. You could do only four days a week, extending the guides by 9 weeks in doing so, so that he doesn't hit the higher guides before he is mature enough for them.

[MelInKansas]

Ummm... whoa!

Your 5.5 DS is well past my 6.5 DD in writing, and perhaps even reading. But here's my guess... while he is a good reader, he needs some shoring up in the basic phonics and practice, practice, practice! Although, it sounds to me like the challenge with him will be not boring him!

I have a good friend whose 4.5 year old son is already reading at a 2nd grade level and is learning handwriting as well, he writes a LOT for a boy his age. She is just doing basics with him every day, having him read, and Handwriting Without Tears (which is mostly about letter formation at least until you get to the 2nd grade book, but he's still getting formation). The copywork in Beyond, while it has helped my DD improve her writing skills dramatically, I would think he might not like to do so you don't really want to be fighting him to get it done. And spelling... whew... spelling is tough. My DD is doing great at spelling and I think the reason for that is that we've practiced the beginning phonics readers enough that she knows all the tricks, like she's seen the words enough to be able to remember that often an ending "K" sound is spelled C-K and stuff like that. She's starting to even remember which words start with W-H (though these are practiced in the Beyond spelling lists too so that's certainly helped). And then there are just so many tricky ones! My DD writes on her own and her spelling is very phonetic... and very wrong sometimes! Of, some, there are just so many common words that aren't spelled at all like they sound!

(Part of post removed per board rules)

[mater est laetus]

I am rolling over the thought of buying Beyond just for the LA but .. I don't know .. I just went back to the placement chart and aside from age, he places into Bigger. Even cursive writing is something he's been asking and waiting for for a while. He did well when I started it but then I put it off when I decided to do LHFHG as written in the beginning. Anyway, I don't know what to do with that placement information. Using a guide two guides up for LA just doesn't sound right so I'm putting that on the back burner until Julie or Carrie perhaps give some input on that.

Mel, after reading your post I'm thinking I haven't been having him read enough. I may have been so focused on teaching phonograms that I've been under-emphasizing the reading of those phonograms in the context of words .. and far more interesting .. in the context of words that are in the context of a story. In fact, I think I've been entirely overlooking the role visual memory plays in this.

In regards to closely related spelling, I know the book you're referring to and I have read another with the same approach and I have found it helpful in teaching spelling phonetically in the context of DS's writing and reading although I don't use the curriculum itself. Perhaps the first step is just to forget the spelling workbook and take a similar approach as to reading by addressing it in the context of copywork and perhaps pull words from his own writing. This would save me buying another guide until next year but ideally I want to get back into HOD for this stuff. I'm all floating around out here in the ether without a guide to hold my hand.

[MelInKansas]

Yeah, read, read, read, sounds like a great idea! To pull you back into the HOD vortex, your comments make it sound like a lot of the info in Beyond would be really helpful for you. For example, there's the emerging readers books of course, but even each week in Emerging Readers there are additional titles you can check out (now I will say these are too long/difficult for my DD so often they are read-alouds or we each read part of them). I have frequented my early reader shelf at the library but of course sometimes you get some real duds there - I've figured out how to skim and decide whether or not it's a good one.

And the basic grammar, spelling, of course is all in Beyond and as I said before I've been amazed at how well my DD has done with the spelling words, considering this is the first time she's done any spelling. But the way you do spelling in Beyond is gentle and fun. First they copy, then you make sentences and have them write the words (practice if they get it wrong), then you write sentences for them to copy, it goes through a similar progression each week with each new list.

And yeah, having it all together in one guide planned for you is pretty awesome!

[mater est laetus]

I am chewing over the Beyond sample. I can't wait to do next year. ... but that aside ...

If I got it for the skills side this year it would only be for spelling and I don't know that I can justify it in that case (though I could always surprise myself ). He's tearing through the first grade level grammar we already have doing daily lessons (granted, it's very gentle and much like the grammar in Beyond) and for reading I started having him read to me from his NASB (It's amazing how much better he reads when there are no pictures!). In the spirit of this new commitment to more daily reading I'm also going to start having him read a story book to the little ones before nap time. I feel like I have fulfilled my life-time Little Bear quota and this is the perfect opportunity to pass the torch. I will report back on any improvement.

Hmm .. now I think I am remembering reading a post from Julie to someone suggesting that if the spelling lists in Beyond were too simple for their child they could pull spelling words from the scheduled reading or copywork so now I'm thinking I could use the Beyond sample as my guide to do that with LHFHG. It would be the next best thing to having the whole guide with me and perhaps get Bigger with Beyond next year and be back wholly into HOD that way.

I really appreciate your help! I was seriously just quitting altogether until next year but now I'm optimistic. The reading practice idea seems overly simple and yet I was entirely missing it - thank-you!!!

This morning at breakfast DS asked if we could do "some nouns and copy-write" (grammar and copywork ). I am more and more thankful for HOD every week.

[twoxcell]

If you got the Beyond Guide you could use the 1st spelling list, the Emergent Reader Schedule and the weekly grammar.

[tkeller]

Hi!
I'm not sure if this will be helpful to you, but I thought I'd post and tell you what I'm doing this year with my little one who is in LHFHG. He is 5 (just turned in June) and an avid reader. I already had the Beyond manual so we started the emerging readers and he is flying through them. I added some of the Sonlight Readers 2 with them to keep him busy. The comprehension questions in the manual are very helpful to make sure he is actually thinking about what he is reading.

We are finishing up our Hooked on Phonics 2nd grade this week, and honestly it hasn't even really been worth it with him. But I bought it so I wanted to finish it. After we finish we will start All About Spelling and see how that goes.

He also LOVES workbooks so although we are only in week 15 of LHFHG he is book G of the Rod and Staff preschool workbooks. I went ahead and bought the entire set instead of just the books in the manual. I also bought Singapore 1a and 1b for when he finishes the K book. He is also in the Book A for Reason for Handwriting, and just asked me this morning when he can start doing copywork like his big cousin. He is constantly trying to write in cursive too, lol. Maybe our kids are related?? haha

I just want to try and keep him in the grade (manual) that he should be in age wise. The read alouds are spot on for him, as he is not that great at sitting and listening to stories. But he has really grown in that aspect in the past 15 weeks with the Burgess books. When we first started he couldn't answer even one question about it, but now he gets most right. He is just super super hyper typical boy in behavior and comprehension. So I don't want to move ahead too quickly in that way with him.

Anyway, good luck keeping your little one busy!

[mater est laetus]

Well, I surprised myself. I figure I will need it next year anyway so it will be one less thing to buy then. I should have taken the advice to do it from the beginning but we were in a really tight spot back then.

Meanwhile, reading is going great. Thanks ladies!

[MelInKansas]

I'm sure you won't regret it!

I would have been conflicted too, not wanting to jump ahead into that too early, but it sounds like you will really get a lot out of it this year, and yeah, if you are planning to use it next year too you'll need it anyway. Enjoy!

[netpea]

another idea for you is to get some of the additional reading books from the appendix each week. I was able to obtain several of them through ILL.

[mater est laetus]

Today I am actually wanting to quit doing school with him altogether. He is hot and cold. When he is hot he flies ahead (like going from reading simply blends in 4 letter words to decoding almost anything and reading books in just a few months) and when he's cold he can't count, he doesn't know the basic sounds of letters or how to form them on paper.

*sigh* My other children want my time and attention and I feel like I'm wasting on this one. He's far enough ahead that I could leave him to himself for a year and he'd be fine to pick up 1st grade next fall (supposing it's a maturity issue that will be grown out of).

He wants to do what he wants, how he wants and where he wants and if it's not working out that way for him then he'll make school as fruitless as trying to do trigonometry with a 2yo. Everything was going so well last week and it's been downhill all this week. I thought the spelling was the problem but I changed that and the problem has just moved out and spread. It was one step forward and 8 back. What is a mother to do? I'm dreaming of boarding school here.

[netpea]

Well, my first thought when I read your post is that just because he can do more than the curriculum doesn't mean he should. If you do Little Hearts as written without adding anything, is he still cold to it? try to enjoy the day with him and if he asks to do more than do it but don't stress over it, he's only 5. My son loved LHFHG at five, I waited until six to do it with my daughter.

[mater est laetus]

Do you mean "exactly" as in everything that is in it or do you mean "exactly" as in nothing extra? It gets a little awkward because he doesn't want to do a handwriting workbook, he wants to write his own sentences. So with that being the case, do you suggest he be left to himself with it? That is an option I've pondered but no-one has commented on my questions regarding that option yet. For instance, from what I understand of CM, it isn't beneficial for him to be continually seeing misspelled words. If I address it, I'm now beyond LHFHG as written. If I leave him to himself he'll be inventing his own spelling and filling his visual memory with misspelled words.

Also, LHFHG only schedules phonics and it was phonics that was provoking him when I started this thread. The suggestion to move him into reading was a huge help. Beyond would better meet him on both of these issues.

Today it was math (again) that was provoking him although I was detecting we were going there by the subtle clues in his disposition during history. This being the case, at this point it appears our problems aren't curriculum based but rather character based.

[MelInKansas]

Ugh! I have had weeks like that with my 4YO. Her problem is when she gets emotionally wound up she won't do anything either. Perhaps it's maturity... I've been struggling with her in this for a while now. I think by now, where she CAN do what I'm asking her to do (even if she doesn't think so) I am addressing it as a character issue, though trying to do so as gently as I can because of her extremely sensitive personality.

I guess for me, I just don't let it eat up my whole day. Yes, sometimes character issues do that, I've had those days too. And I don't always want to just not do it because of the attitude, it seems like that might make the situation worse. For my oldest if her attitude is what's impeding us she goes to her room with a 5 minute timer. I say "if you can come back and do this with a good attitude when the timer goes off, then you can come back. If not, start the timer again." My kids don't have books and toys in their room though, and I think it's just that I sent her there that makes her want to come back. Your son might just want to stay . Maybe he does need a little break, lessening the pressure, maybe he's frustrated that he can't do it very well yet, who knows? Is he verbally expressive about emotion? When I have had problems with my oldest, usually if I sit down with her and talk to her about why she doesn't like something, or what's going on, why she was throwing a fit, I can get some productive information that helps me approach it. Of course we are still struggling with copywork sometimes, but it has gotten better.

Since LHFHG leaves it really open as to what handwriting you are doing, you should do handwriting that is at his level. If he already knows how to form his letters, and knows enough phonics or can read well enough to be spelling, then spelling/copywork is what he should be doing. It would seem really counterproductive to me to go back and work a book on letter formation when he doesn't need that. And I agree with you, you don't really want him to just keep spelling on his own with no correction when it's wrong. But I think maybe "creative correction" is in order here. Like make it a game or make it something positive or fun. I don't think you would need to correct ANYTHING he writes, or I mean make him correct, if you are looking at something he's written in his free time you might tell him words are spelled wrong but don't make a big deal about it, maybe just ask him if he wants to know how to write them correctly. This is what I do with my DD anyway. Usually she's like "no, I don't want to."

Maybe copywork, find something he really likes and have him copy it - his favorite book or something? Or you writing things for him to copy - anything he's interested in - recipes, stories about something he loves, whatever.... Maybe you could get his dad or someone else he admires involved so he will want to be like them? Just throwing out some ideas, I hope you are able to work through things!