Placement questions

[dep2125]

Lisa~ I struggle with wanting to combine them too--especially when I think of how we will do it when the younger 3 are added in the mix. I am trying to keep my focus on this year, and I think 2 guides will be very doable for us!

[off2workigo]

If you have to choose between the Basic and Deluxe packages due to budget constraints, consider this:

The Basic package is the read aloud package. It's designed for you to read with your children, and gives them some fictional stories to help them relate to and cement the periods of history we're studying in their own minds. I am a fan of a good read aloud and think they are invaluable for that special connecting time with mother and children.

The Deluxe package is written "on grade level" and is designed for the child to read independently (this would be at a third or fourth grade level: the extension pack is at the fifth and sixth grade level. There are notebooking assignments, and a lot of the handwriting practice, through copywork, is here. The "Draw and Write Through History" is also a wonderful resource to give students practice drawing the things they are studying about.

If you need to know more about the book packs, you should know that only The True Story of Noah's Ark, Life in the Great Ice Age, Draw and Write Through History, The 5,000 Year Old Puzzle, and Tirzah are used from the Deluxe and Basic packs for the first 8 units worth of plans as far as I can tell. Perhaps you could get just those five, give the two guide sections ("Storytime" and "Independent History Study") a trial run to see which one (if any) you would prefer to drop due to budget constraints, and go from there. You'd lose the discount of purchasing the books in a package, but you'd have the manual in hand at that time and could perhaps place two smaller orders later on to enable you to get the books you want to complete the program and still not blow the August budget all out of whack (I totally understand about budgets...totally).

-Rebecca

[my3sons]

Lisa~ I struggle with wanting to combine them too--especially when I think of how we will do it when the younger 3 are added in the mix. I am trying to keep my focus on this year, and I think 2 guides will be very doable for us!

Personally, I find it easier and more fruitful not to combine. My dc are all 3 or more years apart, and they are worlds apart academically and spiritually. I especially enjoy the heart to heart talks we are able to have with our devotions/Bible times 1:1 together. The things we discuss vary completely from my almost 12 yo, my 8 yo, and my 4 yo. They share so much - I believe it has helped me hold on to their hearts. I share more personal, mature things with my oldest ds, that I would never share with my middle ds. We have someone we know well that is 17 yo and is having a baby with a 15 yo girl. My oldest ds and I have had such important talks about this, especially as he just did his purity study in RTR. I would never have talked about this with my middle ds present. Likewise, my middle ds shares so much that he'd be embarrassed to share with my older ds there. He looks up to him so much. He just wouldn't share his struggles if my oldest was listening in. Then my 4 yo, well he just is learning to praise the Lord with simple songs and fingerplays and story Bible readings. All 3 are in a totally different place, and me being able to work with them individually has opened the door for each of them to talk to me personally about their faith, their concerns, their temptations, and their triumphs. I believe this has helped them to seek me out outside of school time for heart to heart talks about the Lord too.

I also like that my oldest ds can embrace growing older by taking on more independence. Charlotte Mason said that once dc are 9 yo or older, they need to be reading their own school books (other than a read aloud time). This is due to the fact that dc learn more by reading themselves. We have found this to be so true as the dc reach this age and older. It is true for myself! When someone reads to me, I catch half of what I do when I read it myself. When older dc are combined with siblings with reading abilities beneath their own, someone ends up reading aloud what was meant to be read independently. Not to mention, that the content when geared toward the older is often inappropriate for the youngers. Reading aloud lengthy history and science books that were meant for the older more independent learner to read on his own results in the day being very long and the mama (or the older child) being very hoarse. Not to mention, it does nothing to gradually prepare dc for high school, as they certainly will be expected to read their own material then.

Using the placement chart to choose what is right with each of our dc in mind, helps show if combining is a good fit or not for the ages and abilities of our different families. I have used the placement chart, and it has helped me choose what is right for our family, with each of my dc in mind, and that has been a great way for our family to go about learning together. Our dc share with each other all of the time what they are learning, and the conversation just bounces back and forth about this or that all through family meals, and throughout free time too. Everyone can contribute. Everyone feels successful. Everyone can do all that is asked of him in his guide. This kind of family learning is good for everyone!

Sometimes combining is a great choice for families. It just depends on the ages and abilities of the dc. Larger families often need to combine, and usually can within the age ranges of HOD's guides. Likewise, dc who are close in age and ability (within 4 years or less) often combine well with one another. HOD is written for multiple ages, so it is intended that some dc be combined. However, the placement chart is a great indicator of when it is becoming more difficult to combine than it would be to separate. It is the best place to go to see where each of your individual dc place, and then to consider what is best for the whole family based on that.

I just want to encourage you that when dc are appropriately placed, doing multiple HOD programs takes less time than doing 1 HOD program and combining wide age ranges together in it. I have been doing 3 HOD programs for 2 years now, and it has been wonderful! Carrie herself has 4 sons and does 4 HOD programs (counting Cole's as he pilots everything for HOD), and she still somehow manages to write a guide a year. It is not hard to do multiple HOD guides - so please do not worry about it looking ahead! We will help with placement, and once that is right, everything else falls into place beautifully.

I think these excellent posts by Carrie pertain to this as well, so I will link them here for you to enjoy reading too..
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=9339
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=9341
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=9342
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=9343

In Christ,
Julie

[dep2125]

I loved reading your post, Julie! Helps me feel like I am heading in the right direction. I enjoyed reading the links too. However, I am wondering one thing. If I am to teach to the younger child while adding in extensions for an older when combining, will I only ever be able to combine the oldest two? I can't wrap my head around how I would combine an older with a younger child that is moving up. I guess the olders will eventually be more independent, and it would be easier to do more guides? I see that Carrie does 4, so obviously it works. Just thinking ahead again...

[my3sons]

I loved reading your post, Julie! Helps me feel like I am heading in the right direction. I enjoyed reading the links too. However, I am wondering one thing. If I am to teach to the younger child while adding in extensions for an older when combining, will I only ever be able to combine the oldest two? I can't wrap my head around how I would combine an older with a younger child that is moving up. I guess the olders will eventually be more independent, and it would be easier to do more guides? I see that Carrie does 4, so obviously it works. Just thinking ahead again...

Good question! Your dc are all around 2 years apart, so you will more than likely be able to nicely combine them together in pairs. One thing you may want to consider - often our oldest dc take off more quickly. I believe it's because God intended them to lead, and also because they had us all to themselves for at least a little while. All that attention we lavish on our oldest often helps them stretch out beyond our next child. I do not know if this is the case with your 10 yo or not, but if it is, I could see this option working very nicely for your family...
Option 1:
10 yo - PHFHG
6 and 8 yo - combined in Beyond Little Hearts
2 and 4 yo - combined in Little Hands

Or, if your 8 yo is doing well and seems ready to join your 10 yo, here is another option...
Option 2:
8 and 10 yo - combined in PHFHG
4 and 6 yo - combined in LHFHG (how close is the 4 yo to turning 5 yo?)
2 and 2 month old - eventually doing LHTH

I shouldn't even be throwing options out here like this without knowing more about your dc's placement, because age is often just a small piece of the puzzle. But from what you've shared, I really do think that one of these would work, and you'd know which one would work better. I'd encourage you to print off the first week of plans of PHFHG here...
http://www.heartofdakota.com/pdf/PHFHG-sample-week.pdf

Take a bit to read it through carefully, and you will see that though the design of the plans is written more spaced out for ease of use for us as moms, the plans themselves are quite meaty. There are so many skills there. Another great thing to read is the "Introduction", which is here...
http://www.heartofdakota.com/pdf/PHFHG-intro.pdf

This will describe more fully the rotation of skills taught within the guide. You asked how you can teach multiple guides, and the answer is as your olders are maturing and needing to take over their own reading and begin doing more independent work, your youngers begin needing you more. Your olders then are working more independently, and your youngers are doing younger guides with you more, but the younger guides take less time to do and plan for a shorter school day for the littles. So, for example, PHFHG took us around 3 hours to do, and Beyond took us about 2 hours to do. HOD actually incrementally trains dc to be independent in certain skills each year. This is key. I actually think that this is what makes independence truly work. That is why it is so important to do all of the work that is assigned in a guide, so that each skill is truly taught. Many other guides I've used do not train dc to be independent, nor do they teach dc skills they need to keep improving upon year to year. They just all of the sudden assign things to be done independently, but dc have not been taught the skills to be able to do them independently, and therefore, mom is still needed. Also, the work is often done at one level, a lower skill level such as basic comprehension, as dc have no guidance upon how to improve a skill to reach the synthesis, analysis, etc. levels of learning.

I'll try to give an example of this. In PHFHG, dc are taught to begin to do written narrations. In the "Reading about History" box, a parent is guided to teach how to do this in steps. First, dc are taught to reread a small section of the history reading. Then, parents ask guided questions about that specific part of the reading to help dc focus on the important parts of it. Next, dc write 3 sentences about the reading. This is their first written narration. Then, in the Appendix, there is a Written Narration Skills list dc work through one step at a time to begin to edit their narrations. For example, the first skill is to indent. If dc didn't indent their written narration, they fix it, and then they are reminded that this is the 1 thing to work on next time. Once they've mastered that skill, they work on the next one in conjunction with the first, working their way through the Written Narration Skills checklist one skill at a time. By the close of PHFHG, dc are writing around 5 sentences for their written narrations.

In CTC, dc are to do a written narration on a larger portion of the history reading. The parent still asks guiding questions, and the length of the narration is 5-8 sentences. Gradually, throughout the year, the guiding questions are lessened. Dc are reminded to check for the following things: Did you include who or what topic the reading was mainly about? Did you include descriptors of the important thing(s) that happened? Did you include a closing sentence? If not, they are to add those things. The dc are continuing to work their way through the Written Narration Skills checklist.

In RTR, dc are to do a written narration on their entire history reading. There are not guiding questions. The length of the written narration is extended to 8-12 sentences. Dc are reminded to check for the following things: Did you include who or what topic the reading was mainly about? Did you include descriptors of the important thing(s) that happened? Did you include a closing sentence? If not, they are to add those things. Dc first edit their written narration by reading their written narration out loud, and they may use the Written Narration Skills checklist as best they can, and then the parent helps with the final editing using the checklist. Written Narrations are also added in Science, and dc are given a choice of topics to narrate upon.

You can see that by the time dc do written narrations in RTR, they are well trained to be independent in this skill. They will be successful with it, as long as we did our part in teaching what is in the guide. You can also see the difference it would make if a guide - instead of incrementally teaching the skill of writing a written narration - simply said year after year in the plans,"Write a written narration". So many questions are left up in the air - How long should it be? What would be considered a good written narration? How much editing should be required? etc. These questions are what make true "independence" impossible. Because HOD teaches skills step-by-step, dc are very successful with doing them independently. This approach is taken to teaching skills across the board. Each year new skills are added and older skills are given to the student to take responsibility for - this is what makes it possible for older dc to grow and mature, to embrace becoming more responsible for their learning. It has helped my oldest ds become more and more confident in his abilities, less dependent upon me for everything. He need not wait for me if I am busy with something or someone, he can move on with his studies because he knows which parts are independent and semi-independent, and he also knows which parts he reserves for me because those are teacher-directed.

I think this balance has helped our relationship as my ds enters his preteen years. I've noticed his desire to be more grown up, to take charge of things more, and (in his words) to have me "hover" less. Our teaching time together is amazing. It is special, and it is focused. It is steeped in rich discussions and deep learning. It is not spent with me just reading to him. It is not spent with me "hovering" over him telling him every little step to do.

This has allowed me to be with my littles - which they are dying for! They long to have their mama every step of the way, and they can, because I have time freed up to teach them all those foundational skills I taught my older years back. This is the beauty of multiple guides within HOD. It is such a gift. I love the balance it gives me in my day, with my dc, with my time. Anyway, I know this got long, but I was hoping if I tried to explain a specific skill that it might help make clearer what I've been trying to say. Keep asking questions, keep praying, but you're onto something here that can change your life in a wonderful way. I am a happy homeschooling mama. I don't have perfect days, but I do have consistently happy, content days. What a gift - I want to pass it on!

In Christ,
Julie

[dep2125]

Julie~I just wanted to thank you for your last post (which was SO helpful!) and give you a little update! This is what I finally decided on, and it has worked out wonderfully for so many reasons!

10yo--PHFHG
8 yo & 6 yo--combined in Beyond (8yo is using dictation from Preparing)
4 yo LHTH (working on the correct way to hold a pencil! LOL!)

We are also using DITHOR with levels 2/3 and 4/5 for 8 & 10 yos. I was worried that Beyond would not be enough for my 8 yo, but I see now that it is a good fit. While she could have done Preparing, it is really working out to have them do different things. We may add in some more science along the way because they really enjoy it. I am going to search the posts for more information on the God's Wonderful Works book. It seems now that we skip around a lot, and they are always wanting MORE...lol. I can't remember if the whole book is covered during Beyond or just parts of it?

Anyway, I was really anxious about starting with the correct guides, but your last post somehow freed me up to consider different options of combining. Thanks so much!
Blessings,
Dena