Kinda OT: I need help getting baby to sleep to do school!!!!

[8arrows]

I have not read the other replies yet. I have 8 children, and it has been necessary to have a good nap schedule to get the other children taught and cared for. This is what I have done. I nurse the baby and then play with them for a while. Then I lay them down in the crib so they are not used to nursing to get to sleep. Originally, there is some crying, but it quickly abates. About 1/2 of mine do use a pacifier. The ones that didn't were even easier. Note: Keep and eye on the crying. If it changes frequency or tone, I check on them. If it contiunes 7-10 minutes, I go in to check, kiss them, and then lay them down to try again. It is much easier to start this earlier in the baby's life, so while it is definately still a great idea, it will take you a little longer to be successful. Keep going back in to check and offer some love every 7-10 minutes, but consistency is the key to successful sleep. Another way to gain some time is to train the baby to play in the playpen for 30 minutes in the morning and afternoon. Start with 5 minutes and build up gradually. Also, train the baby to be a part of school when they are awake. "Coloring, reading, large manipulatives," snacks, high chair play, painting with water, etc. Babies are always a part of our school. Preparing is a great year. The children also take turns with the baby when we need some one-on-one time. One of your children could watch the baby while you worked with the other individually. Preparing is a great program. Are you going to give that program another go? I hope you find lots of solutions from the wise moms on this board to help your days go well this fall.

[MelInKansas]

I have read this and it seems like you have gotten some great advice from some wonderful people on here. Sleep (and how you handle it) is a very varied thing among parents. Personally I also don't like letting my babies cry-it-out, and at 10 months old when your baby is used to one thing, it would be very difficult to completely change what you are doing with him and for him to understand that. I think babies are open to learning to fall asleep on their own around 4 months, 6 months, and then again around a year or maybe between a year and 18 months in my experience, with my one daughter who was never "sleep trained" she just naturally started wanting to be put in bed still awake and go to sleep on her own. She understood that was what bed was for, she was too old to be able to be nursed to sleep or rocked to sleep anymore, that was just what she wanted. I haven't co-slept so I can't speak to it from that perspective (we have a waterbed which is considered unsafe to have babies in, I'm not opposed to it, though I don't think my DH would like it).

Also I wanted to encourage you that mobile babies and toddlers (at least before 2 years) are the MOST challenging to parent while you homeschool. I read up on here about ideas because last fall when I was starting K with my oldest, my youngest had just turned 1. Just knowing her, I had NO idea how I was going to get any reading done or have focussed time with my oldest DD and still meet the baby's needs, or keep her out of trouble. I ended up doing school down in our basement playroom, where my daughter could crawl (and then walk) around and explore things while I was reading to my older 2. We did it in the morning, after breakfast, which was the toddler's happiest time of the day. By 18 months old, when my youngest started talking, I ended up having her have playtime in her crib while I did storytime reading and discussion. She has a pacifier, which I let her have during this time to keep her happy. Otherwise, if she was in the room, she was jabbering at us and wanted me to talk and interact with her while I was trying to read to the other two children.

Now that my youngest is 2, she has so many interests and if I can find an interesting toy for her to manipulate she is very happy to be left alone to play with it for up to 30 minutes at a time. So her room play time is her happiest time (she's in a toddler bed now so I put her in her room, I can't confine her to a crib). It really seems like doing school with a 2 year old around will be much easier to structure than it was when she was 1. So I wanted to tell you that in hopes that it would encourage you, as you already said, this is a short season of life and the Lord gave me much grace to get through that challenging time (and I still hope He might bless us with more children, so I will be relying on His grace again if/when I am schooling and also nurturing a baby).

I think having more scheduled naptimes for your son would probably help you in being able to figure out when to get school done. But if that's just not going to work, because of your baby's needs, maybe you can just have a strategy? A plan about when to try and get reading done, or pick the most challenging things, the things that really require the most of your involvement and attention, and then try to pick the best time of day, where everyone is the happiest, to get it done. Also I have a friend who uses workboxes, she has older kids than mine, so she organizes everything for her kids, and then they can just open up each drawer for their day's assignments, and do them mostly independently. Obviously that doesn't work for everything, and you have to find time to check over what they've done. I can get very lazy about my DDs independent work, and I want to be able to discuss it with her, praise her, and make sure she's understanding everything.

I hope some of this is helpful to you, I am saying a prayer for you to have wisdom in how best to parent all of your children and meet each of their needs. I ask for wisdom so often, because only the Lord knows how we can best do these things!

[MelInKansas]

to be just plain honest - I really don't have a clue how to put babies on a schedule.

I quoted this from your OP. I am SO with you on this. I actually might have a clue (I tried really hard with my oldest DD to do it), but in fact it seems like way too much work for me. I also discovered I have a lower milk supply than many moms, so the schedule that was suggested, or that has been suggested by books and things, would not allow me to exclusively breastfeed, which I decided was important to me.

But as each of my children came along, it seemed even more difficult to put all this time and energy into "training" my children when they should be hungry and when they should be tired (or when I would feed them and when I would put them to bed). I agree that it seems to work very well for many people, but it did not work for me.

But I do think routine is important, and sleep is important, and it's important to let your child get the sleep he needs. You say he seems like he's not getting enough sleep. I would encourage you in two ways, first not every child needs nearly the same amount of sleep. I have 3 and as babies they seemed to need different amounts of sleep, none of which were in books. But it is something you can discern, if he is always fussy and showing signs of being tired, then maybe he isn't getting enough sleep. You can't really make a child sleep though, and they can find ways to fight it (and this is another battle I'm not good at fighting). I do a bit of the reverse, kind of like you sometimes end up doing with food for picky eaters. "Okay, you don't want to sleep right now, fine you don't need to sleep then, get up." If I had a child who was fighting sleep, then we would revert to play and distraction for a while (maybe even a snack or something) until I felt like maybe the child was open to going to sleep. Probably, for a 10 month old, at least an hour. Then, you go through the naptime routine again, and put the child down again. If they're exhausted, sleep will come. Because for us, going to bed was never a punishment, and in fact sometimes I withhold sleep if they seem to be fighting it, my kids actually like going to bed. I have no idea how this would be analysed by a psychologist or even another Christian mom, this is just something I do.

[babybryte]

Thank you, Melissa, especially for the prayer. I need prayer!!

Thanks to every single one of you who have replied! I wish I could reply to each one, but with a 10-month old, I just don't have the time, as you understand. I am pouring over each reply, gleaning tips from each one. I love the ideas of the playpen, highchair (if he will stay - he's not crazy about being in his highchair!). I don't have an exersaucer anymore. I gave it back to my friend. I always wanted to get him a jumperoo, but since he is mobile now, I don't know if I should spend the money on one or not.

Probably the main problem with putting him in his crib is that he has never had to sleep in his crib before. Now, he HAS played in his crib a lot. We used to put toys in there and it acted as a playpen. But I haven't done that in a couple of months. So I am not quite sure how to get him used to his crib to sleep in so that he won't be shocked if we decide to quit co-sleeping. The books say to sleep in the floor of his room for several nights and continue to get him to sleep the same way as usual. But that is not possible for me w/ my bad back. My DH would do it, but he is not the one who gets the baby to sleep. I am the only one Samuel will let get him to sleep. So I'm not sure how to deal with that.

One person asked if I was going to continue to do Preparing this Fall. Well, I think I am going to go on to CTC. My BF is going to do Ancient History w/ MOH (I'm still trying to convince her to do HOD!), and we are going to get together one day a month to do history activities together. We have never done anything like that before, and I think it will help my kids out a lot.

[countrymom]

I haven't had time to read the other responses, so sorry if repeat. I would consider taking 2-4 weeks off school to get little one on a schedule. I think it would be worth it in the end. 10 months is a tough age because some children are ready to drop the morning nap by then (one of mine was). I would suggest getting a strict bedtime schedule with about a 7pm bedtime and a bedtime routine. I would not try to change everything at once either. The main 1st point should be scheduling. It will be tricky because you will have to figure out naps at the same time, but I would start with trying a nap around 10am and see if he falls asleep. Afternoon nap should be no later than 1pm and no longer than 2 hours and then to bed by 7pm. Once you get him on a good schedule you can figure out how much else you want to change in regards to sleep (co-sleeping etc). A 10 month old needs to have some "structured" time, so while off of school I would get him used to going in a pack n play once in the morning and once in the afternoon. Probably start at about 20 minutes or so to get him used to it. Once you get baby on a schedule and used to his "structured" time, you should be able to squeak schooling in. Use nap time for the most labor intensive subjects (on your part), pack n play time to work with your children on other boxes they need help on, and then do the rest with baby awake with rotating toys. Scheduling can be done, but it may not be easy at first (which is why I recommend eliminate the stress of schooling while doing it). I had to difficult children when it came to sleep, yet we managed a 7p-7a sleep schedule with scheduled napping. Nights were the hardest, but at least you aren't schooling then I'll be praying for you.

[MelInKansas]

What about the crib sidled up to your bed, with one side down or off? Then you can lay down next to him but he's still in his own bed? Or is he active enough that he would fall out of the crib if it's not fully gated on all sides? When you leave the bed, you could put something between the edge of the crib and him so he can't roll out.

[babybryte]

I thought about doing the crib that way. It might help him get a little used to it. He IS very mobile, and in fact, has crawled off the bed after waking from a nap. That is yet another reason I wanted to get him in the crib, so that he wouldn't crawl off the bed again.

Tonight he fell asleep at 8:00pm. But he hasn't slept much today. It would be great if he would sleep morning w/o needing a bottle! LOL!

[Kathleen]

Wow, Jacuelyn! You've had quite the year! I wouldn't waste time feeling guilty about what you've been able to accomplish. Just know, that with God's help and working on things (like you're doing here), you'll move to being able to accomplish more that is important with "school".

I have a little 10 month old that's about a week older than yours. What a blessing they are! Asa was born Aug 26. He has been my easiest baby to date as far as being super-flexible and very happy. He naps at "regularly scheduled times"...or if we're out and about, he naps at "not regularly scheduled times". So, it's probably not fair to compare them in the nap department, but I think this is just his little God-given personality. I've had much more challenging babies in the contentment department.

My oldest, Grant, was born 4 weeks early and he cried A LOT!! We tried getting him to sleep in a crib, a carseat, our bed, in our arms, on our chest, while nursing, with a pacifier... You name it, we tried it! I had a lot of baby experience (with other people's babies) before him, and I was at a loss. He was quite colicky - for 4 months!! At 4 months, he discovered he had a thumb and life was SOO much happier. (He's still my little guy that always has noise coming from his mouth, but talking is much more pleasant.) While he was a baby, someone had given me some hand-me-down clothes, and the book Baby Wise was in the sack. I read that one quickly. They claimed babies could sleep through the night by 8 weeks. We were thinking ANY sleep would be good at that point! We did start following their suggestions in the way that worked for our family. We're not rigid schedulers, but we followed the general Eat, Play, Sleep pattern. I have done this with all my kids since, and they have all slept through the night before 8 weeks - even with their different temperments and personalities. And, they've all been nursed exclusively.

Right now, Asa gets up around 7:30 am. He nurses, eats, plays, and is ready for a nap about 10ish. He sleeps until 12 or 12:30. Then he nurses, eats, plays and is ready for another nap about 3. He sleeps until 5 or 6. Then he nurses, plays, eats, and is ready for bed when we're ready to come in the house. That may be 8 or it may be 9 this time of year. (The later we get him to bed, the later he may sleep in the morning - which in the summer is a-ok for us. Lunch is about the only part of our daily schedule that is fairly stable this time of year. The rest can vary quite a bit.) I give him a hug and his blankie and he snuggles right into his nap on his own. But that's kind of been our plan from the beginning. I do turn a fan on in his room so that we don't have to be too quiet in the room right next to him. During the school year, we may be doing the LHFHG active rhymes next door and we like to be able to hop, skip and be a little loud without waking him up early.

I do think it would be hard to start working on getting them to sleep on their own at this age. My guess is that even if you let him cry, it wouldn't last more than a rough week. I know that when I get slack on something and it starts popping up as a discipline issue in my kids, we may have a rough day or 2 where I feel like I'm doing a lot of discipline, but then the issue is getting better again, and we're all much happier. My guess would be that it would be similar. It may take a few days, but then your son will realize that he can expect to be put in his bed when he's tired and he'll learn to go to sleep because no one is coming to get him up. The issue isn't that you don't want to hold him or you're tired of carrying him around. The issue is that he's tired and he needs to take a nap. So, you're giving him what he needs as his mom.

When my kids were weeks old, and we had kind of a routine going between feedings. I could tell when they were getting tired. I did cuddle and bouce or rock them some and then lay them down right before they fell asleep. This worked great for us! And, it was not long before I could lay them down fully awake and they'd just go to sleep on their own. But, when I did have time, I would still enjoy a little cuddle time before naps with them. I liked it that they weren't dependent on me to go to sleep though. I don't know if that would work as you transition?

Praying that you can successfully get a routine going as you move along with school. I'm sure it will help so much! (And I know that God knows your heart on this and He will help you work on it and give the results He wants.) My husband and I always get a big kick out of our sister-in-law at family gatherings around the holidays. She has little ones and has also read the Baby Wise book...but she is a very by-the-clock scheduler (and hasn't had any life experiences yet that have taught her she can't control everything around her...). Anyway, her little baby was awake and obviously hungry at Christmas and her hubby was asking if she wanted to feed the baby. Nope - not for 23 minutes. My husband knows that I would never try to keep track of baby's feedings or naps to the minute! Ummm, actually, he probably knows that I wouldn't be able to even if I tried. So, I'm quite sure you can take something that works for your family from advice from other moms or a book, and go with it!

Kathleen

[babybryte]

Thank you, Kathleen! Great tips! If we do "play, eat, sleep", I wonder how I can change it over to "eat, play, sleep"? He usually gets a bottle before sleep. Sometimes during the day, I can rock him w/o a bottle. I just wonder how I can get into the routine you were talking about. That would be ideal.

Well, since our 2-day CIO try, Samuel has been extremely clingy. He won't even let me leave the room at all without crying and crawling after me. If he catches me, he hangs on for dear life to my leg. I really hope this will pass.

[MelInKansas]

I've always fed my children right before sleep. At least, until they quit nursing or taking a bottle. And they do use it as an aid to go to sleep, but if they weren't asleep at the end of eating they would go in bed anyway. I just found, as babies, they slept better with full tummies, but this also does go back to the fact that I have a low milk supply, so there's no way I could nurse, let the baby have awake time, and put them to bed and expect the milk they had gotten to last long so they could sleep well. They were always hungry again when it was time for a nap.

I have a friend who decided at one point she needed to totally change sleeping patterns with her baby because he was not getting enough sleep (and was completely driving her crazy in the process). So she decided to do a CIO (she read "Healthy Sleep Habits Happy Child") with him. I think if you start down that road you just have to be sure that's what you want to do and stick with it, because it DOES work. But starting and stopping it does seem to make things worse. Now he is a happy little boy (she sleep trained him when he was 4 months old and he's now almost 10 months old) and goes to sleep well, takes his regular naps (not always as long as she would like, well you can't win them all), and she's really glad she did it. It was completely agonizing for her for a whole week while he was crying himself to sleep. I don't remember now if she would go in occasionally or if the idea was to just leave them to cry... I haven't read the book. I do know it was really hard for her to do. That's just another person's experience.

Also some people would do a toddler bed next to their bed. Your son is a little bit young for a toddler bed, but it's not impossible to train them to sleep in it. You just have to be persistent for a week or so, every time they get out when they should be sleeping you just calmly put them back in. Get out and climb in your bed... put them back in. At least at night hopefully your husband could help. And then you still again would be very close by, or be able to lay down next to him on your bed and that would be comforting and help him go to sleep. Of course I suppose the goal is for him to go to sleep on his own so that you could do school instead of laying by him while he goes to sleep.

Again, I pray for wisdom for you! I hope it gets better. It seems like you had a lot of changes and trials that made school difficult, along with the fact that your son is a difficult sleeper. Maybe him getting a little older, along with removal of some of those things, will make it easier.

[netpea]

Thought I already posted this but I don't see it.
My hubby does not allow me to bring babies into our bed. He is worried about safety. He has no problem with me co-sleeping in another bed. With all our little ones, I have put them down at night by nursing them to sleep and then putting them in the crib. When they wake to nurse, I will take them to the spare bed and sleep there with them. If we are somewhere else and I have no opportunity to sleep with them, I just nurse them back to sleep and put them back in the crib. This has always worked for me. Maybe that could help you until you figure out how to approach sleep training. Can you nurse the baby to sleep and put him in his crib?

[mom24boys]

We do "eat, play, sleep," but baby still gets a bottle right before bedtime (at 6:30pm). So, it' my understanding that you would still give him a bottle before his extended nighttime sleep, and then do eat, play sleep all day long. HTH.

[my3sons]

Such a wealth of wisdom here already! I just wanted to ask if you have checked if your baby has reflux still. My dc all had reflux, though in varying degrees of seriousness. Keeping them elevated was key to them comfortably being able to sleep. Medicine did wonders as well, though it took some time to figure that out, it was worth it. Sitting upright and not sleeping right after eating was necessary for more pain-free sleeping. I can give some other tips too, but I want to encourage you, if your ds does have reflux, there are some wonderful helps out there, and the change you can see in your ds's sleeping habits and general disposition is phenomenal! Life-changing really.

In Christ,
Julie

[babybryte]

Hi Julie! When he turned 6 months, his reflux *seemed* to get so much better. I occasionally see him grimace like he has reflux come up, but very rarely. He does not spit up hardly at all anymore. So I don't believe that he has it really anymore, but I could be wrong. We tried Zantac when he was a newborn, but it didn't really help. But no one explained to me until recently that with the medicine, the baby will still spit up. I thought that since he was spitting up, that it wasn't working. But anyway...

I still am too scared to do anything else about his sleeping. I am terrified that I am going to change him, like one person on here said. On the other hand, I'm terrified that we won't get school done AGAIN this year! UGH!!!

[BrooklynsMom03]

Having done LOTS of attachment and bonding work...and lots of conferences and camps with some of the best in the business....crying it out would never be an option!! No baby carriers either unless in car driving down the road for safety! If a sling is out do to a bad back ....I wonder if a hip carrier would work...At a training camp I attended once there was a family there and the mom was TINY...and her boy was BIG! He was like 3 at the time and VERY heavy....they got her a hip carrier...and having the weight over her hip helped alot...

One thing I have learned to ....is LOTS of direct eye contact but not attending to every fuss from the baby....letting him know that you are right there with him...but he needs to sit quietly for small amounts of time...

One thing we use for our daughter who is now 8 but has been on it for yrs...is fish oil...it is so calming to a childs nervous system and helps them stay more focused and calm ie maybe helping your baby sleep longer and getting more rest!

Of course check with your doctor or naturepath before adding anything to your babies diet!

Also is is possible to hire a home school girl or a someone to come help with baby or school during a few hrs each day while you are working on training your little one? Sometimes we just need a little help! I recently hired someone to clean my house every couple weeks..and it has been such a huge help...Beth in Idaho