Tell me it's okay....

[Mom2Monkeys]

.....that my rising 5th grader places into Singapore 3A. She's been doing Math Mammoth and is doing well with it, but the pages are crowded for her taste...and she's a bit frustrated by that. The author of MM says you don't need to complete them all, and I love the way it teaches the asian math method for my own sake b/c it's clear enough even *I* understand it BUT, the clean layout of Singapore Math is much more appealing.... though I'll have to use an HIG so I know how to teach it (I"ve tried before with SM 2A/B and I really couldn't explain it well which is why we switched to begin with). Also, I have to use the mental math/drill pages from the HIG for this child...she still doesn't know even her add/subt facts She's excited about the switch, as am I. I'm worried brother will catch up rather soon. He's a rising 2nd grader and will be working on 1B probably some this summer, then move into 2A shortly after we start back up in the fall. (that's the plan anyway...plans change ) My only concern is her need for review.... my son won't need it, but she does. How have you met your child's need for review with Singapore? How should I adjust the pace to "catch up" at least a level behind grade. I'd like to start 5A by 6th grade if at all possible. So, that's 3A/B and 4A/B over this summer, this coming schoolyear, and the following summer....possible? Reasonable?

[MomtoJGJE]

It is possible, but maybe plan to get to 5A in the middle of next year? That would give her a whole other semester and you wouldn't have to fly through it. IF she's not a mathy person then it wouldn't be the best thing to cram 2 levels of SM into that short of time. My oldest LOVES math, but it takes her a bit to feel comfortable with a topic. So to solidify her math knowledge and make her more confident she did 1B a second time this fall. Even having done it once already it took her 8 weeks to get through the book. Obviously there were no new topics to cover! She will be finishing up 2A next week, the pacing has been PERFECT and it took her 5 months.

I guess I'm just saying, if she struggles with math anyway, then rushing her in singapore isn't going to help her at all. It will just frustrate her more, but if you just do it consistently and just work on "catching up" slowly over the summers then it'll be better for her.

[pjdobro]

First, it's definitely ok if that is where she places. That's not a big deal at all. Like you mentioned at most it is 1 grade behind and probably more like a 1/2 grade in reality. If she knows the basics but just doesn't understand the Singapore way of doing things then you could possibly move more quickly through the lessons than normal. If she doesn't actually know the basics though I really wouldn't rush through it at all. If she is not very "mathy", it could really discourage her to try to move quickly. We just finished our year and we covered 3A, 3B, and 4A. That is a lot for the year and it actually pushed us a bit to finish 4A, but I have a ds who is gifted mathematically and just begs for more. So I try to stay at a pace that keeps him happy without over stressing my dd. She in not mathematically minded and that pace pushed her a bit. I know I could have separated them, but I am still not ready to do that. I tell you that just to say that 3 books in a year was a fairly aggressive pace and 4 would be really fast. Obviously some of the things like measurement, time, etc. can be quick subjects, but still that pace could be overwhelming for your dd.

As far as review, I really don't understand why some feel that Singapore doesn't review. It does have some built in review along the way both in the textbook and workbook. I haven't noticed how often it is but it seems when we have covered a new concept especially one that is more complex, there is a review of all of those concepts covered in that unit at the end of the unit. Then throughout a book there is usually a couple of reviews of all of the concepts that have been taught. I find too that the way the concepts are laid out that each one builds on the last so when you get to that new concept you are in effect reviewing the old while building upon it. I haven't found the need to add any additional review. The only thing I have added is working on memorizing the multiplication facts so that their recall is quicker.

One thing I have noticed in general the last couple of years is that the "A" part of the year is usually more intense and takes us longer. The "B" part usually is faster just because it covers things like measurement, time, etc. So perhaps you'll be able to go faster in the "B" books and help make up some ground that way. I know you really want to catch up, but be careful because it is much more important that she understands the concepts well at whatever level that she is at than that she be at grade level.

[mamanlait]

Tamara,

Totally agreeing with Patty. B goes much faster at our house as well.

I think you will be surprised at how easy your 9yo will find a lot of 3A/3B coming out of MM. There might be some weak areas that caused a lower placement but I'm a little surprised at the discrepancy given the similarities of the two programs. Maybe this is a true blessing to jump back levels, one that will help your student cover areas that were previously not understood. I would not be rushed, though. Some days it will be easy to do 2 lessons, other days it won't. Just don't push it so that there is a dislike for math. My oldest dd needed flashcards to get those facts down with Singapore (I realize many do not). We did one fact area a day (+-x/) with flashcards until they were solid. This is a 5 minute addition that really helped her speed up the work in Singapore.

We successfully did 3 Singapore levels in one year last year when I wanted to play a little catch-up. We accomplished 3A/3B/4A painlessly (the 4 was Standards). It would have been sooo much easier doing U.S. Ed. because there is less diversity and confusion. I prefer U.S. Therefore, I think you can rest assured that with 5 days a week of work, 1-2 lessons/d, year around (we did take several weeks off), you'll finish 3 levels easily with U.S Singapore.

In terms of review, in Singapore, it builds on itself. You can't really figure out Lesson 40 without understanding the concepts in Lesson 15 (does that make sense)? It may not seem like Review because it may not call itself that, but it's intrinsic in the work. As the teacher, I'm sure to work out the lessons in the text carefully to make sure dd understands a lesson before moving ahead to the next. We've only had to stop a handful of times and do extra work on a Lesson. Also, when there are scheduled review lessons, if there is a topic that hasn't been understood, and it's easy to see those, we spend the next day or time reviewing those concepts.

For what it's worth, I have used MM Light Blue in the past and it was a breath of fresh air moving back over to Singapore. The instruction part of MM just wasn't happening at my house (by me). I was relying too much on dd to learn concepts independently and realized later that I didn't have a good grasp on what was successfully understood. I think you'll find Singapore to be a good change. Teaching is very much guided thanks to the Textbook.

HtH,
Amy

[psreit]

My dd will be in 2nd grade this fall. We are barely into 1A. I believe Math will be slow going for her. If we get done with 1A and 1B in 2nd, I will be happy. I made up my mind that I'm not going to push her, just to be 'caught up' with grade level. My evaluator said that making progress is what matters. if you see progress being made, don't worry about what level she on. If your dd 'gets it',then maybe she'll be able to do a little extra at some point.

I talked to Carrie about my dd's math situation when I saw her at convention. I was concerned about a learning disability. She said that some kids just aren't mathy. It comes quicker to some than others. That does not mean there is a learning disability. So, I am just going to keep working with dd and see what happens, but I'm not going to worry about what level she is on.

[Mom2Monkeys]

For what it's worth, I have used MM Light Blue in the past and it was a breath of fresh air moving back over to Singapore. The instruction part of MM just wasn't happening at my house (by me). I was relying too much on dd to learn concepts independently and realized later that I didn't have a good grasp on what was successfully understood. I think you'll find Singapore to be a good change. Teaching is very much guided thanks to the Textbook.

HtH,
Amy

This was an issue here...she was easily able to do the lessons with me just going a quick run through the explanation...they were wonderfully clear and concise, which appealed to me. But, I think it made it too easy to let her run with it. And it was super flexible, and that is great! But, I feel insecure with that much flex. I need to know what to do and when and I don't want total control over it all...but I do want a say so. (that make sense?) Singapore is not only a cleaner layout, but a bit more structured.

Also, I do think the fact we haven't gotten to division yet in MM3 has much to do with her placement into 3A. Plus she isn't solid on facts so I didn't want to go too far. I think we could have done 3B, but we need to start off a little easier. I agree much of 3A will be review...and in fact, much of 3B will too b/c of the way we covered topics in MM this past year. We haven't finished MM3 yet though, so I suppose it's pretty on track with SM b/c I'd say we are half way through it and she knows about half of 3A/3B. So perhaps that will help in moving quickly through 3A/B between summer light-school and first semester...giving us all of 2nd semester and following summer to finish a bit of 3B if needed and work on 4A at least. I won't rush her....I will just move at her pace.

DD has some sensory issues, and some are visually related. I showed her multiple sample pages of varying difficulties of both US and Standards edition...without telling her what was what. She did NOT react well to the US edition and LOVED the SE. I don't know why, and she couldn't really explain either, but whatever it is has her excited about math finally so I'm going with that. (it's not the color She feels respected and responsible for her math being that she chose it as well. My non-math brain needs the clearer HIGs anyway...and yes, I need the HIGs. I have trouble with some of the SM2 words problems! I'm a grammar geek (though it doesn't always show online), not a mathy mom. I'll stick with the HOD plans for SM1 and 2 though for my boys but will already have the SE for 3A and up since big sister will be doing that...so I guess that's the plan!

[mamanlait]

Tamara,
The layout of Standards was what appealed to me, too. It was just too jam-packed full of topics for my tastes. I actually own Standards version for our current 4B and considered using that version of text and have dd do the workbook of US just because of the beautiful layout ...but I'm resisting the urge as it would add to my all ready confused brain ...my point being that I understand the desire you have to use Standards but know it will take longer to get through; however, it does have A LOT of systematic review which might be what you are looking for.
Amy

[Mom2Monkeys]

; however, it does have A LOT of systematic review which might be what you are looking for.
Amy

I do believe this is just what she will need! We did 2A/B with the HOD hands-on and she kept forgetting how to do stuff, even though she understood the concepts well. I wanted the methods of SM, but with more practice and review...that's a large portion of why we moved to Math Mammoth. After completing 2A/B, she couldn't even pass the placement test for 2A, which is the "exit test". We school year round in the sense that we continue math and reading over the summer...and this summer will also be grammar since we're playing catch up there! We're going to easily be able to finish R&S3 over the summer, and they all know math is just part of summers. It was already 95 here today...so summers get a lot of indoor time unless you can beat the heat by getting out when it's only in the 80s in the early AM. Perfect time to keep up some skills I think the systematic review will be just right...I do realize there is review in the US edition, and it will be just right for my son. DD just needs more.

Is it possible to do let's say a lesson from the A book, then one from the B book from topics like time, money, measuring, geometry?? She feels those topics, especially geometry, are like a reward for a job well done with the "real math" as she calls it like subtraction and multiplication (the arithmetic parts). Not only would that allow us to accomplish more in a day and get through the books at a good pace, she would enjoy it. I'm willing to spend a little extra time on math a few days a week, plus add it in on the 5th day, (as long as she isn't getting frustrated) to keep her moving forward, especially since a good deal of 3 will be review.

I'm feeling more okay about her placement... 3A/B is at least a solid 4th grade level by topic, but the conceptual is far above. Especially if I think about the math they were doing at public school the short few weeks she was there this year. She was easily placed into mid-year 4th grade math after having done just a small portion of MM3... and now she's done more of that and places in 3A. Big deal, right? She's ahead if you really think about it! She can not just DO the math, she can THINK it too!

[mamanlait]

Tamara,
I don't know if you could go back and forth between A & B. As I recall, there are aspects of measurements that serve as review from A (for example, skills that you learned in A are reviewed via measurement questions in B). Keep in mind that Standards does add quite a bit more in with measurements. It was overwhelming to us and ultimately the reason we moved back over the U.S. Ed. You might want to look up the comparative Scope and Sequence of the two online and cross out much of the measurement that has been added in for CA Standards (wish I would have done this because dd can't remember any conversions now thanks to waaay too many to learn all at once). I think it might be easier to cover different parts of A that are unrelated. I still would hesitate, though. Singapore really builds on itself. It might be safer to just go systematically through the book and, with Standards, do evens/odds on lessons that seem easy. That might allow 2 lessons a day with better comprehension than moving through two books at once.

Sorry I don't have a more definitive answer for you.
Amy

[Mom2Monkeys]

Tamara,
I don't know if you could go back and forth between A & B. As I recall, there are aspects of measurements that serve as review from A (for example, skills that you learned in A are reviewed via measurement questions in B). Keep in mind that Standards does add quite a bit more in with measurements. It was overwhelming to us and ultimately the reason we moved back over the U.S. Ed. You might want to look up the comparative Scope and Sequence of the two online and cross out much of the measurement that has been added in for CA Standards (wish I would have done this because dd can't remember any conversions now thanks to waaay too many to learn all at once). I think it might be easier to cover different parts of A that are unrelated. I still would hesitate, though. Singapore really builds on itself. It might be safer to just go systematically through the book and, with Standards, do evens/odds on lessons that seem easy. That might allow 2 lessons a day with better comprehension than moving through two books at once.

Sorry I don't have a more definitive answer for you.
Amy

Thanks! That makes sense. We did that with MM, to make it move more quickly, but really, I guess I need to stop worrying about moving quickly and grade level. I'll try setting a timer for maybe half an hour and just do what we can! A big concern this summer is getting her addition and subtraction facts down. That's enough to make me insane. Lol