HOD vs. Classical
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HOD vs. Classical
Hello!
I am new to HOD and LOVE it! I have been telling, um i mean bombarding, everyone about it, showing them the curriculum package, etc...so very thankful that the Lord led me to HOD and I am in love .
My question...Can any of you point me to a blog post, article, discussion (or even summarize yourself) the weakness of Classical Christian Ed. as compared to HOD. The reason I ask, is that I just *knew* I would educate with the classical model after reading, "The Well Trained Mind" and being in many classical Christian circles for over 10 years. That was until I found Charlotte Mason . We started with Sonlight, and after a year of it (and feeling it was not discipleship-oriented enough, lack of connectedness in the readings, and dislike of the lesson plan format), I started reasearching and found HOD. It has been exactly what I was looking for and more! ...But now, I am surrounded by hard core classic-ers , and just want to be able to share in an educated way how HOD is different. Having been surrounded by Classical, i know what a few of these differences are... but having never taught in the classical method and only Sonlight, i am BAD at articulating them... I know this is a long topic, but if anyone can share input (even if it's a snippet I would really appreciate it!
Thank you ,
Kat
I am new to HOD and LOVE it! I have been telling, um i mean bombarding, everyone about it, showing them the curriculum package, etc...so very thankful that the Lord led me to HOD and I am in love .
My question...Can any of you point me to a blog post, article, discussion (or even summarize yourself) the weakness of Classical Christian Ed. as compared to HOD. The reason I ask, is that I just *knew* I would educate with the classical model after reading, "The Well Trained Mind" and being in many classical Christian circles for over 10 years. That was until I found Charlotte Mason . We started with Sonlight, and after a year of it (and feeling it was not discipleship-oriented enough, lack of connectedness in the readings, and dislike of the lesson plan format), I started reasearching and found HOD. It has been exactly what I was looking for and more! ...But now, I am surrounded by hard core classic-ers , and just want to be able to share in an educated way how HOD is different. Having been surrounded by Classical, i know what a few of these differences are... but having never taught in the classical method and only Sonlight, i am BAD at articulating them... I know this is a long topic, but if anyone can share input (even if it's a snippet I would really appreciate it!
Thank you ,
Kat
Re: HOD vs. Classical
This is an older post that is VERY helpful! I couldn't figure out how to direct you there easily, so I just cut and pasted the post here. Carrie, the author of HOD, wrote this post.
Hi Shannon - here is a copy of Carrie's comments on HOD, CM, Classical - this is a wonderful post she wrote, and I hope it will help as you decide how to dialogue about this with your sister-in-law:
Ah.. the CM/Classical question. This is one with a multi-faceted answer! At HOD we definitely lean more toward the CM-style than the classical. As the ladies have already pointed out CM and Classical have some definite areas of agreement and overlap (most pointedly the reading of more "classic" type books), however the main thrust of the two philosophies is different.
CM-style readings focus on fewer books read more slowly over time, in essence fewer/more quality books done more deeply. Classical enjoys using fact books (i.e Usborne, DK, and other encyclopedia like books) as reading material and also encourages reading of abridgements of classics early on. CM readings are always living, using fact books only for reference, and recommend waiting to read the classics until the unabridged versions can be attempted. Not all classics are considered "good reading" in a CM style education. Classical often focuses on the "Great Books".
CM focuses on narration as the primary method of comprehension. Classical also uses narration, but more for the purpose of learning to summarize. In CM-style narration, kiddos are to borrow words from the author to retell the story. Narrations are often lengthy and detailed and there is no "one right" answer or certain key points that "should be" in the narration. This is the way the child connects to and makes sense of the reading. Classical narration is looking for a more succinct narration with "certain" main key points. There is more of a feeling that a good narration should have these "key points" in it. This is a different form of narration from CM-style narration.
CM and Classical both use dictation, but with different methods. CM uses studied dictation (meaning kiddos study the passage first to fix in in the mind prior to having it dictated). Classical also uses dictation, but does not have kiddos study it first. It is more of a test of what the kiddos know, rather than the practice of fixing it in one's mind.
Both CM and Classical use copywork as a form of early writing practice. This is an area of agreement.
CM uses delayed formal grammar instruction and delayed formal writing instruction. Classical education focuses on early rigorous grammar instruction and also on a rigorous schedule for memorization. CM also does memorization, especially of Scripture passages and poetry, but is not nearly as rigorous as Classical.
Both CM and Classical use written narration, yet the expected outcome is different. Classical uses written narration as a tool for learning how to write a summary through narration. There is more of feeling that there are certain key points that should be included for it to be done correctly. CM uses written narration as a tool to learn writing style by borrowing the author's style and wording to convey the thrust of the reading. It is not meant as merely a stepping stone to summarizing, as classical uses written narration. In CM-style narration, the student is instead trying on various styles of writing using the author's style, until they eventually begin developing their own style of writing.
CM and typical Classical vary quite a bit on their approach to Bible study and integrating God's word throughout the school day. CM believed this was foundational to all learning. Classical devotes very little time during the day to this topic, unless you follow a modified classical approach (such as the Bluedorn's Christian Classical or Memoria's Press's Christian Classical).
Character training and formation of habits were a huge part of CM's focus. She devotes much of her 6 volume series to those topics. It is in these areas particulary that I agree with her. The formation of a child's character and his/her habits is an overlooked topic in Classical education, as the pursuit of wisdom, knowledge, and education is supreme.
CM felt poetry study, nature study, art, and music were important. She studied science through nature, art through picture study of famous paintings, music through listening to classical pieces, and poetry through daily reading of classic poems. Classical looks at these areas as an "add-on", until they are done in the upper levels along with the rigorous study of history. With a truly classical schedule there is little time left in a very rigorous school day to devote to these things.
You can see that at HOD we fall on the CM side for almost all of the things I've listed in the above post. The two areas we have not included yet, are picture study and classical music. However, we have discussed these areas on the board quite a bit, and do add them in with our own kiddos. In future guides, we will hit each of those areas at least once (preferring to do famous artists, composers, and hymn writers when they best coordinate with our history study).
Anyway, from the description above you can see some distinct difference between the two approaches. When reading it, you may hopefully be able to sort out the differences and where you fall philosopy-wise a little better.
As far as "It Couldn't Happen", we have decided against using it with our own kiddos due to the "old earth" perspective in the book. Answers in Genesis had some notes about that particular book that we agreed with when perusing it ourselves.
With the deeper "logic" stage Bible study part of your question..., we have sought deep discussions and thinking about the Bible from the beginning with our guides, so we will continue in that pattern of weighing everything against God's word with our future guides.
Blessings,
Carrie
Hi Shannon - here is a copy of Carrie's comments on HOD, CM, Classical - this is a wonderful post she wrote, and I hope it will help as you decide how to dialogue about this with your sister-in-law:
Ah.. the CM/Classical question. This is one with a multi-faceted answer! At HOD we definitely lean more toward the CM-style than the classical. As the ladies have already pointed out CM and Classical have some definite areas of agreement and overlap (most pointedly the reading of more "classic" type books), however the main thrust of the two philosophies is different.
CM-style readings focus on fewer books read more slowly over time, in essence fewer/more quality books done more deeply. Classical enjoys using fact books (i.e Usborne, DK, and other encyclopedia like books) as reading material and also encourages reading of abridgements of classics early on. CM readings are always living, using fact books only for reference, and recommend waiting to read the classics until the unabridged versions can be attempted. Not all classics are considered "good reading" in a CM style education. Classical often focuses on the "Great Books".
CM focuses on narration as the primary method of comprehension. Classical also uses narration, but more for the purpose of learning to summarize. In CM-style narration, kiddos are to borrow words from the author to retell the story. Narrations are often lengthy and detailed and there is no "one right" answer or certain key points that "should be" in the narration. This is the way the child connects to and makes sense of the reading. Classical narration is looking for a more succinct narration with "certain" main key points. There is more of a feeling that a good narration should have these "key points" in it. This is a different form of narration from CM-style narration.
CM and Classical both use dictation, but with different methods. CM uses studied dictation (meaning kiddos study the passage first to fix in in the mind prior to having it dictated). Classical also uses dictation, but does not have kiddos study it first. It is more of a test of what the kiddos know, rather than the practice of fixing it in one's mind.
Both CM and Classical use copywork as a form of early writing practice. This is an area of agreement.
CM uses delayed formal grammar instruction and delayed formal writing instruction. Classical education focuses on early rigorous grammar instruction and also on a rigorous schedule for memorization. CM also does memorization, especially of Scripture passages and poetry, but is not nearly as rigorous as Classical.
Both CM and Classical use written narration, yet the expected outcome is different. Classical uses written narration as a tool for learning how to write a summary through narration. There is more of feeling that there are certain key points that should be included for it to be done correctly. CM uses written narration as a tool to learn writing style by borrowing the author's style and wording to convey the thrust of the reading. It is not meant as merely a stepping stone to summarizing, as classical uses written narration. In CM-style narration, the student is instead trying on various styles of writing using the author's style, until they eventually begin developing their own style of writing.
CM and typical Classical vary quite a bit on their approach to Bible study and integrating God's word throughout the school day. CM believed this was foundational to all learning. Classical devotes very little time during the day to this topic, unless you follow a modified classical approach (such as the Bluedorn's Christian Classical or Memoria's Press's Christian Classical).
Character training and formation of habits were a huge part of CM's focus. She devotes much of her 6 volume series to those topics. It is in these areas particulary that I agree with her. The formation of a child's character and his/her habits is an overlooked topic in Classical education, as the pursuit of wisdom, knowledge, and education is supreme.
CM felt poetry study, nature study, art, and music were important. She studied science through nature, art through picture study of famous paintings, music through listening to classical pieces, and poetry through daily reading of classic poems. Classical looks at these areas as an "add-on", until they are done in the upper levels along with the rigorous study of history. With a truly classical schedule there is little time left in a very rigorous school day to devote to these things.
You can see that at HOD we fall on the CM side for almost all of the things I've listed in the above post. The two areas we have not included yet, are picture study and classical music. However, we have discussed these areas on the board quite a bit, and do add them in with our own kiddos. In future guides, we will hit each of those areas at least once (preferring to do famous artists, composers, and hymn writers when they best coordinate with our history study).
Anyway, from the description above you can see some distinct difference between the two approaches. When reading it, you may hopefully be able to sort out the differences and where you fall philosopy-wise a little better.
As far as "It Couldn't Happen", we have decided against using it with our own kiddos due to the "old earth" perspective in the book. Answers in Genesis had some notes about that particular book that we agreed with when perusing it ourselves.
With the deeper "logic" stage Bible study part of your question..., we have sought deep discussions and thinking about the Bible from the beginning with our guides, so we will continue in that pattern of weighing everything against God's word with our future guides.
Blessings,
Carrie
Wife to a great guy and mommy to:
Ds(15) - using WG and loving it!
Dd(11) - using Res.to Ref and having a blast!
Ds (3) - our joy!
Two little ones in the arms of Jesus - I can't wait to hold you in Heaven!
Ds(15) - using WG and loving it!
Dd(11) - using Res.to Ref and having a blast!
Ds (3) - our joy!
Two little ones in the arms of Jesus - I can't wait to hold you in Heaven!
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Re: HOD vs. Classical
Hi Kat! That's exactly the post I would've pointed you to regarding this topic. It's a great read! Welcome to the boards!
Tamara
Tamara
~~Tamara~~
Enjoying HOD since 2008
DD15 long-time HODie finding her own new path
DS12 PHFHG {dysgraphia, APD, SID}
DS9 PHFHG
DS6 LHFHG
DD new nursling
Enjoying HOD since 2008
DD15 long-time HODie finding her own new path
DS12 PHFHG {dysgraphia, APD, SID}
DS9 PHFHG
DS6 LHFHG
DD new nursling
Re: HOD vs. Classical
Welcome to HoD Kat! I wrote up a list of comparisons of HoD to the WTM. Hmmm, I think I will pm you a link.
Married to a wonderful man since 1995
DS
DS
DD
DS
DS
DS
DD
DS
Re: HOD vs. Classical
This was very interesting - I'd love any additional info too.
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Re: HOD vs. Classical
Thank you so much, everyone! Imercon...i really appreciate you sharing that...I had never thought about some of those distinctions. Thank you!
Re: HOD vs. Classical
That's very interesting. I knew there were a few similarities, but I wasn't sure what they were exactly. I know a mom in town who uses HOD and Classical Conversations together.
Dd 9 - Bigger Hearts.
Dd 5 - Kindergarten with various things.
Happily married to a graduated homeschooler who is intelligent and socialized.
Dd 5 - Kindergarten with various things.
Happily married to a graduated homeschooler who is intelligent and socialized.
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Re: HOD vs. Classical
Welcome, Kat! And I'm glad you asked the question. I was one who was embarking on a CE when I discovered HOD, and after researching CM on which HOD is based, decided HOD and CM would be perfect for our family! And this thread helped give me tangible details as to why...
Heidi
loving teaching my rewards!!!
Girlie (dd7) - Beyond, 4 days/week
Boy-o (ds4), LHTH, along for the ride!!! (all boy, whatever he can get his hands on, FULL OF ENERGY!)
Psalm 78:3-7
http://heidihovan.blogspot.com
loving teaching my rewards!!!
Girlie (dd7) - Beyond, 4 days/week
Boy-o (ds4), LHTH, along for the ride!!! (all boy, whatever he can get his hands on, FULL OF ENERGY!)
Psalm 78:3-7
http://heidihovan.blogspot.com