Questioning separate guides too (but didn't want to hi-jack

[inHistiming]

the other thread.

Hmmm. I have been pondering this as well for many weeks. I LOVE HOD and all of the books, the plans, the Christ-centered-ness. I would be very sad to give that up. There are other curricula we've used and loved too, but nothing was quite as complete as HOD. And my kids adore it...my oldest in RTR is excited about continuing, is excited about what he is learning and will learn in future guides and was very happy (as was I) to hear that there will be guides for high school. So here is MY issue.

My son works independently. He does well with that most of the time. My problem is he is not involved with the rest of the family. I understand the 'doing his guide' bit from the other poster and I feel the same. I'm sad about that.

My dd is in Preparing. She is also able to work independently and I am involved with the story time and history read alouds. I want to do the poetry and other T items as well but much of the time she does those on her own because I am busy with toddler and baby or younger brother. Her little brother, 2nd grade, was supposed to have been in Beyond...this year. We did start and stop twice, and we both really like the program (did it with dd previously), but I have been unable to keep up with doing ALL of the T items from 3 guides. So he is really only getting the basics this year. I know many people do use multiple guides with success, but after trying this two years in a row and failing, I feel sure separate guides are not for us. I have had, over the last 2-3 weeks, my youngest son listening in to the story time and history read aloud with his sister. He is enjoying it and sits still to listen. He will turn 8 in June, so is still well under the age range for Preparing.

My question here is do any of you have suggestions for combining the younger two, and preferably the oldest as well? My older two were combined 2 years ago in Bigger and that worked okay. I'm just looking for scenarios that you feel may work for us for combining three dc with a wide age range. They are 13, 11, and almost 8.

[inHistiming]

Anyone?

[mater est laetus]

I have no idea, being new to HoD and all, but I'm interested in what you end up doing.

I was curious though, isn't Preparing for 8-12yos (extensions included)? I was just a little confused since you mentioned your youngest turning 8 before the start of school but being well below the age for Preparing.

[inHistiming]

Well, look at that! I did not realize....you would think I'd have checked again since WE HAVE THE MANUAL RIGHT HERE IN OUR HOME! I was thinking the age range was 9-11. That helps a lot. I might be able to combine the younger two and just keep doing the basics on his level....he won't be ready for the writing part. My oldest can join us for the read alouds to help bring us together, and maybe we could do the bible portion together too? Some things to ponder. Thanks for bringing that to my attention, I can't believe I overlooked it.

[mater est laetus]

I'm so glad I could help. I think your ideas for making it work sound great.

[water2wine]

Well, look at that! I did not realize....you would think I'd have checked again since WE HAVE THE MANUAL RIGHT HERE IN OUR HOME! I was thinking the age range was 9-11. That helps a lot. I might be able to combine the younger two and just keep doing the basics on his level....he won't be ready for the writing part. My oldest can join us for the read alouds to help bring us together, and maybe we could do the bible portion together too? Some things to ponder. Thanks for bringing that to my attention, I can't believe I overlooked it.

I think that sounds like a great idea as long as you have checked out the placement chart for Preparing and see that she is OK with the skills. I have a young one going through Preparing next year. She will start the guide being 7 and end being 8. But I am confident skill wise she will be fine. I have also done Preparing with 11 year olds and it was great for us. I would just double check the placement chart and see where she falls.

[inHistiming]

water2wine...are you talking left side or right side skills? I already know he won't join in on the right side, we'll keep him with his own stuff that he's already using. We just began R&S 2 a couple of weeks ago though, and he's doing well with that. We would likely just omit the things from the left side that he can't do or he could just help his sister. What do you think?

[Carrie]

inHistiming,

I'm thinking that you've had some very tough health and medical issues this past year and have also had a new baby and possibly even a move, if I'm remembering correctly? Certainly, all of these things will affect how much progress you've been able to make and also how much of a rhythm you've been able to get into with HOD. I also agree that with a larger family it is wise to pursue combining those who can combine successfully.

So, with those thoughts in mind, I would take a good look to see if your almost 8 year old has the skills to do what is written on the left side of the Preparing Hearts guide, as well as much of the right side. If he fits well there on the placement chart then that is a very viable option. However, if your just turned 8 year old ends up doing little more than listening in to the readings within Preparing Hearts, then this is only a one-year temporary fix because at some point the skills that little honey is missing will need to be addressed, making him unable to move into CTC the following year without you doing all of the reading aloud.

If you are not liking your older child being off doing his own guide, then he can certainly be with the rest of the family when doing his guide simply by moving him into your mix. I know my 6th grade son who is doing Resurrection to Reformation is among us all day, so there is no feeling that he is off by himself. He shares things that he's reading with us and talks with his brothers as he works. We see him all throughout our day. There are many ways to get your son more involved with the rest of the family if desired, as it is up to you to decide where he does his schooling each day and what he is sharing with others and how. Often the family feeling is as much about where the child is doing his schoolwork within the house, as it is about what the child is actually doing.

My oldest son does choose to do his work upstairs much of the time, but since he is in high school, we feel this is alright as more quiet is needed for his studies. He does come down in between each subject and is among us then. I also check on him off and on throughout the mornings to see if he needs me.

We do all eat lunch together, and each of my boys has a scheduled 30 min. playtime with his younger brother during the morning too. Right after lunch, all of my boys clean up together and then head out for a 60 min. recess together too. Around lunch we talk about their subjects and often I do a read-aloud or anything else I have scheduled for the year for all of us to share together from someone else's guide.

One other thought I'd wondered about is whether your older two could possibly do CTC together instead of being in two separate programs? This would be something to weigh that may allow you to work in a more focused way with your younger student in Beyond. Or, if you could do Beyond at half-speed that would work too. Sometimes it does take time to work out a schedule that is viable. Depending on how far into Preparing Hearts you are, and on whether your daughter in Preparing has done Bigger, you could also consider combining your almost 8 year old with his older sister within Bigger Hearts instead. That would allow you to meet both of their needs while still having them together. I think that you need a plan to combine some kiddos if possible for the longer term, and it is just a matter of figuring out who combines best and within which guide.

One last thing to weigh is how much time your language arts and math are taking for each child each day. I'm not sure if you use our recommendations in those areas, but it can be shocking how much time language arts and math alone can eat up in a schedule daily, especially if you have quite a few kiddos. So that is something to calculate and get into balance too. You can use your own options if desired in these areas, but just make sure that they are in balance time-wise with what we're scheduling in our guides so that the language arts and math are not making your day go on too long or taking too much precious mom time.

If you have other thoughts, post back and we''ll talk through options until we find what is best for your unique family situation.

Blessings,
Carrie

[inHistiming]

Thanks so much for all of your replies. There's much to ponder. I appreciate the time you've all taken to respond.

My dd is in unit 22 of Preparing.....my son is on around unit 10 (really not sure...we're out of town right now so I can't check) of RTR. I think part of my problem with my oldest son is also that I am short on time. So, the writing he is doing on his own. I am not teaching it, so then to go back and check it all I have to flip back through the guide to see what the instructions were, then check to see if he did it correctly......which I don't feel I really have the time for either. And I know I really should be going over that with him before he does it.

I kind of like the idea of doing one program with all of the kids and each one takes what he/she can from the readings, knowing they will 'get it' more when they are older and cover that period again. However, I know HOD is not really set up that way, at least not for wide age ranges.

I could put my dd and youngest ds in Bigger together, with her using extensions....because I feel she did not get a lot from Bigger when we went through it the first time. But, having done more than half of Preparing, I'm not sure what we would do then when we got back around to it. Any ideas there?

[my3sons]

...I could put my dd and youngest ds in Bigger together, with her using extensions...

I like this idea! I think that this would keep your oldest clipping along, and your middle duo would be better paired together than your older 2. By doing the extensions, BHFHG would have a different feel to it for dd, and she'd be getting a firm foundation in it before moving on to PHFHG a year later. I do think that doing extensions with PHFHG would give it a different feel, but maybe that bridge is best crossed when you come to it down the road. For your oldest ds, I had a "wow" moment earlier this year that helped me have some real time to work with my oldest ds - I thought I'd link that here...
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=8140&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

Maybe starting with your ds could help? I know it made a big difference in our day - just an idea to give a try. Hope something helps here!

In Christ,
Julie

[inHistiming]

We probably will have to cross that bridge later, but.....would we substitute a history read aloud and story time book for the ones we've done in Preparing....when we got back to it later? And my youngest son missed out on everything until he began listening in a few weeks ago, but dd has done the poetry, science, all of it up through the current unit. How would we handle that? Oh, and to answer Carrie's questions about math and LA, we are using all LA suggested in HOD, but Saxon for math, so math does take up more time with all of them.

[inHistiming]

Just wanted to bump this up, as I am still pondering and would welcome more ideas, and any answers to my other questions. Thanks so much!

[Carrie]

inHistiming,

Thanks for bumping this thread, and also for your patience in hearing back from us! We are at MassHope right now, with a moment this evening to catch up on the board. So, I'm moving through the threads and working to catch up!

As far as your kiddos' go, a couple thoughts that I had are as follows... First, I'm wanting to make sure that your son who is 7 could truly handle Bigger Hearts on the placement-chart, especially the first page. If he cannot, then combining with his older sis' will not work well for the long haul.

Next, I'm wanting to think through how much of Preparing Hearts your daughter has gotten to do in the day-to-day. The reason I mention this, is if she is doing pretty much everything that is in Preparing on a daily basis and has done it all the way up to Unit 22 or so, then heading back to Bigger won't be a good fit for her either.

So, those are the two wild cards for me that I do not know enough about to say for sure.

Then, depending on what your responses would be to the above questions, I'd be wondering if your daughter who is currently doing Preparing will be well-placed in CTC in about 13 more weeks, or whether she hasn't done all of what's within Preparing which may mean she's not ready for CTC? If she will be ready for CTC, there is a possibility she could be combined with her older sibling, rather than her younger one.

Last, if your kiddos actually need to be in separate guides, it is possible that they just need a good year to settle into their placement and that after a year's time you will really reap the benefit of the training within the HOD guides. One guide really prepares a child well for the next guide in line, but if you end up switching the sequence, or jumping over guides, or are stopping and starting so much that you never really get through a guide and then move on to the next one in line, you will miss the benefits of the training. So, this is one more area that is a wildcard that I'm not sure of, as I cannot remember for sure what you've done in the past. But, I wanted to let you know that two years of HOD in a row, doing the guides in the sequence in which they are written pays off huge dividends in independence, and in growth in skills.

Feel free to post back with your thoughts, as you know your family and your kiddos best!

Blessings,
Carrie

[inHistiming]

I do think my ds 7 (eight in June) would be able to handle Bigger.

My dd has done all of Preparing up to Unit 22 and that is my problem with trying to cycle her back through it later. I'm assuming, since she is working in Preparing and will be finishing it around the first week of August, that she will be ready for CTC then. It's not that I'm concerned about her handling that, I just don't think I can handle 3 guides. In order to combine her with her older brother we would have to move him down into CTC and would run into the same problem later with trying to go thorough RTR a second time for him. Should I move her into RTR? He is not as far into it as she is into Preparing, but she would still have missed the first 13 weeks or so.

We have done quite a bit of starting and stopping. For the past two years I have not started with HOD in the fall, due to moving and then a new baby. Then, decided both years to start in January. Last winter, we ended up dropping their programs and just doing the basics through the end of the year. This winter the older two have continued but my younger ds is only getting the basics due to time constraints.

I am really looking to combine all three of them as much as possible. I know that is not the way HOD is set up, but I really love the book selections. I love that you have pre-read the material and I can be sure that it is wholesome, with Christian values. That it leads us to God. But, with 3 different guides, I find myself skipping things that I know we would do if I was able to do the majority of the work with all three older kids. Plus, thinking about my 2 younger ones joining us in a few years is quite overwhelming when I consider that it will be a 4th and possibly a 5th guide. I am not cut out for that! Any suggestions for which program might work for combining them all, or is that just impossible?

[8arrows]

I like Carrie's idea of combining the oldest two in CTC this coming year. I would probably stop RTR now and have him just read good books. It is almost the end of the year anyway. Have dd finish Preparing to enter CTC in the fall. I have several children and cannot handle too many guides either. I had to do something similar to get enough of my children in one guide to get that guide done well. Now, the 8 year old. This will not be a standard answer, but what if you did just let him hang out in CTC for the together stuff this coming year and then the following year when the older two are settled in RTR (10 weeks of a repeat is not a big deal in the overall scheme of things) start Bigger with your then 9 year old. The older two will be pretty independent by then. You may just need one year to recover from life. You know what is coming in the guides so you could easily work on narration, etc. If you didn't cover Beyond that great this year (I understand!) repeating that guide is an option as it doesn't take very long and you would have eliminated one of the older guides. I don't think you need to worry about the littles because you will have your HOD legs well under you by then. Getting the correct placement for your family and sticking to it is paramount. I finally feel like I am in that place and can just continue with the next guide for the rest of our schooling years, but it has taken some time and struggles.