Skipping a Guide

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daybreaking
Posts: 317
Joined: Thu May 20, 2010 12:21 pm

Skipping a Guide

Post by daybreaking » Thu Apr 21, 2011 9:26 pm

About this time last year, I was vacillating between starting my ds son in Beyond or Bigger. After receiving a lot of great advice on this board, I chose to use Beyond with the LA from Bigger. It's been a great year and my ds has loved doing HOD. The only issue has been that, although the LA from Bigger has been a perfect fit, there have been many times that I felt that Beyond was too easy for him. To clarify, the Poetry, Bible Study and Storytime have been right on target for him, but he pretty much knew all of the science before I presented it and much of the history. I stayed the course as my ds has loved doing Beyond and has been very successful. Unlike some other homeschooling decisions I made which led to many tears :oops:, using Beyond has always brought a big smile and excitement. As I am planning for next year, however, I'm really wondering if Preparing would be a better fit than Bigger, since my ds has indicated that he would like to study world history for a change. It seems we've been studying American history forever, since we've been reading living books to our ds for years. My ds can pretty much rattle off fact after fact about American history and famous Americans, so I know he's taken in what we've read. I looked at the placement chart and he pretty much places squarely into Preparing. Last year, I know the writing in Bigger would have been a bit much for him, but he's grown leaps and bounds this year, both academically and emotionally, and writing is no longer a hurdle. I know I've always read that Bigger is a preparation for Preparing, but since we've been doing the LA from Bigger anyhow, I wondered if that would be less of an issue. To give a bit more information, my ds did very well with R&S English 2 this year, has copied and illustrated all of each poem, has learned cursive, is successful with dictation, does an excellent and very detailed job with narration and easily reads books at a 5th/6th grade level. He hasn't done creative writing (except on his own, for fun) or written narration, so I can't comment on that. More than likely, he'd do fine with the content portion of written narration and creative writing, but have a few spelling errors in it.

Here's what I have been mulling over and would like to know if I'm crazy to even contemplate it. I have considered doing Preparing with my ds during the day, for homeschooling, and then having my dh read Bigger's history and science books, as well as the history extension packet books, to our ds at night. My dh and ds love reading history and science living books, as well as good literature, and my dh is always looking for new books to read to our ds, since they spend 30-60 minutes a night reading together (and have done so since my ds was a toddler). I love the books listed in Bigger and wouldn't want my ds to miss them, so I thought combining them with nighttime reading would allow my ds to get the great books of Bigger, but in a relaxed manner. (They've actually already read some of Eggleston, as well as Bud and Me, last year, and absolutely loved the stories. Truth be told, my dh was going to read Bud and Me to our ds, but my ds liked it so much, he read it to my dh, then excitedly narrated it in such detail to his Grandmother that she borrowed the book to read it herself! :))

So, I am wondering if some of you experienced HOD ladies would be kind enough to tell me if this is feasible or if I am setting my ds up for frustration by jumping a guide. I must admit that in the past I've been guilty of pushing my ds too hard when he had the ability to do something, but not yet the maturity. An embarrassing example of this is having him do three separate math programs -in full- at one time. (It must have been the former math teacher in me not wanting to let any good thing go! :oops: Thank God for a sweet dh that gently reminded me our ds was only 8 and would be just fine if I dropped a program. :)) When I narrowed it down to one main program with another as a fun "brain-teaser type" supplement, all the struggle went away and he soared. So, I'd love to hear any thoughts you have. (FYI - We'll be going out of town for Easter, so I won't be able to respond to any posts until early next week.) Thank you!

Wife to one amazing husband and mother to two precious blessings from above:
ds22 & dd18

pjdobro
Posts: 1491
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 1:45 pm

Re: Skipping a Guide

Post by pjdobro » Fri Apr 22, 2011 9:42 am

It sounds like your ds has the skills to do Preparing. I am just thinking about the year that we've had with Bigger and I hate for anyone to miss it :( , but I understand wanting to challenge your ds. Some of the things that I'm thinking would be difficult to jump into in Preparing would be the boxes that are written to be independent, the independent history and science. Those two boxes are similar to what the dc have been doing in Bigger so it makes it easy for them to take over those boxes and do them independently. You might need to guide your ds through these boxes for a few weeks until he understands the format and what is expected of him in order to have him be independent with them. Two other areas come to mind, the vocabulary and the timeline. Those are two things again that the dc have been doing in Bigger that will make that task easy for them in Preparing. Those aren't meant to be independent in Preparing, but it might be slower going for you at first as your ds learns these activities. It sounds to me that you could move onto Preparing, but you might want to start it at a slower pace to give your ds time to get used to the activities. :D
Patty in NC

b/g twins '02 Rev2Rev 2014/15
previously enjoyed LHFHG, BLHFHG, Bigger, Preparing, CTC, RTR
******
Nisi Dominus Frusta (Without God, frustration)
Unless the LORD builds the house, its builders labor in vain. Psalm 127:1

daybreaking
Posts: 317
Joined: Thu May 20, 2010 12:21 pm

Re: Skipping a Guide

Post by daybreaking » Tue Apr 26, 2011 5:52 am

Thank you for taking the time to reply. I really appreciate your insight. It's always helpful to hear from those who are more experienced. :) I'm still wavering, which is no surprise to those who know me. :oops: On paper, it looks doable and a good idea, but I have a feeling in my gut that I might regret skipping Bigger. We've had such an enjoyable year with Beyond and I don't want to do something to squelch the excitement and "joy of learning" I see in my ds. Thankfully, I have time to ponder. I'll keep your thoughts in mind as I do, as they were very helpful. If anyone else has more thoughts, please share. The more the merrier! :D

Wife to one amazing husband and mother to two precious blessings from above:
ds22 & dd18

countrymom
Posts: 770
Joined: Tue Nov 10, 2009 3:16 pm

Re: Skipping a Guide

Post by countrymom » Tue Apr 26, 2011 6:50 am

I have the full Bigger set, but we have not done it yet, so I am only able to throw out a couple of thoughts. If you are wavering, there is often a reason why we moms waver :) Perhaps you could do Bigger with the extensions for the challenge, and of course do R & S, DITHOR, and math wherever he places? I believe there is a lot of mapping in Bigger too, which may make it more exciting for him. I'll pray you make the right decision.
Countrymom
Wife to J
Big J - LHFHG, Beyond, Bigger, Preparing, CTC, R2R, Rev to Rev, Modern Missions, beginning parts of World Geography
Little J - LHTH, LHFHG, Beyond, Bigger, Preparing, working in CTC

8arrows
Posts: 965
Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2008 4:49 pm

Re: Skipping a Guide

Post by 8arrows » Tue Apr 26, 2011 8:12 am

Bigger is a much fuller program than Beyond, so it will be a step up. I would tend toward Bigger so that you do not lose the great flow you have going. I definately would not buy the books from Bigger to read at night while doing Preparing. That just seems like a lot to me. Either may work, but I would lean toward Bigger.
Melissa, wife to Jim for 28 years
3 graduated, 2 using US 2, 8th grade dd using Missions to Marvels
Isaiah 40:11 ...He gently leads those that have young.

my3sons
Posts: 10702
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2007 7:08 pm
Location: South Dakota

Re: Skipping a Guide

Post by my3sons » Tue Apr 26, 2011 12:51 pm

Your ds sounds like he places in BHFHG for some things and in PHFHG for others. Has he done "Drawn into the Heart of Reading"? I am thinking that would make a difference in how he would do. Many dc learn to read well, but DITHOR is really what takes their good reading to the next comprehension/skill level. This really helps to advance dc in all subject areas, especially as they are taking over their history/science readings as they move up in the guides. If he hasn't done DITHOR, I'd be inclined to do Bigger Hearts with him, along with DITHOR Level 2/3 with the Level 3 Pack books to challenge him, as well as R & S English 3, and dictation. You could also challenge him by having him read his own science, as well as begin to set up for doing that box more independently. :) Bigger Hearts may be just the step up he is needing. It would not be pushing him too hard, or asking him to mature too quickly, yet it would offer him more of a challenge. :D

If you are thinking he places more squarely in PHFHG, I would really take a good look at the first week of plans and see if he can do what he would be asked to do (especially the "I" independent boxes, and the "S" semi-independent boxes). This comparison of the writing dc are doing in each of the guides may be helpful too:

Amount of writing in Bigger vs. PHFHG:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3602

Also, here is a comparison of the approximate time each guide takes, as this may help in your decision...

PHFHG and LHFHG time it takes:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4244&p=31219#p31219

BHFHG time it takes:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=702

Honestly, you could go either way here. I do get worried about dc skipping guides, as solid introduction of skills and smooth transitions from guide to guide are often sacrificed. However, there is the occasion that a child was improperly placed the first time around, and it then becomes clear a new placement is needed. We try hard to help with placement here, but moms do know their own dc best, and we are only going off of the details of information shared here, whereas the mom has the fuller picture. I will say I think that Bigger Hearts is quite a step up in skills from Beyond Little Hearts (appropriately considering the target ages), and I "think" it will be a big enough step up to challenge your bright little 8 yo - BUT, you have the bigger picture knowing him well, and hopefully by all of chatting about different ideas here, and by looking over the links to see the differences between the guides, you will clearly know what will be best for him. I hope something here helps! :D

In Christ,
Julie
Enjoyed LHTH to USII
Currently using USI
Wife to Rich for 28 years
Mother to 3 sons, ages 23, 20, and 16
Sister to Carrie

daybreaking
Posts: 317
Joined: Thu May 20, 2010 12:21 pm

Re: Skipping a Guide

Post by daybreaking » Tue Apr 26, 2011 1:15 pm

Thank you all!

Julie,

He hasn't done DITHOR, yet. He could have last year, probably easily, but we (after good advice from this board and you), chose to do the ERS. He's breezed through the ERS, but I still think it was a good plan to start there, especially since the ERS was all oral. As far as placement, I have to say that I don't think he was wrongly placed last year, when we put him in Beyond. Yes, he could have done Bigger, but he needed the pace of Beyond, as well as the reduced writing load, compared to Bigger. Although the science and history have been easy, the other parts of Beyond have been right on target (while using R&S 2). The link for the amount of writing in Bigger vs. Preparing was very helpful. Reading the comparison really makes me lean towards Bigger. Even though it means another year of American History, I think my ds might just need the year of Bigger to solidify the writing skills needed in Preparing. Thank you all for taking the time to answer.

Wife to one amazing husband and mother to two precious blessings from above:
ds22 & dd18

my3sons
Posts: 10702
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2007 7:08 pm
Location: South Dakota

Re: Skipping a Guide

Post by my3sons » Tue Apr 26, 2011 7:10 pm

I'm so sorry I didn't remember the talk we had about ERS or DITHOR! I totally forgot that. :( I am glad that the placement worked out pretty well overall though - I never know for sure when trying to help out with placement if it's going to be completely accurate. I have been trying to pray every time before I give advice that God would somehow help me to say what He would want me to, and that it would be good advice. That has helped me try to step out there and give the best advice I can with the information I have been given in the hopes that most of the time it is hopefully a good fit, but I know I am by no means always right. I hope that you can find a peace in deciding between BHFHG and PHFHG for next year for your ds. I was leaning toward BHFHG for your little guy too, but I think you will be able to tell what would work best for him. :D

In Christ,
Julie
Enjoyed LHTH to USII
Currently using USI
Wife to Rich for 28 years
Mother to 3 sons, ages 23, 20, and 16
Sister to Carrie

pjdobro
Posts: 1491
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 1:45 pm

Re: Skipping a Guide

Post by pjdobro » Tue Apr 26, 2011 9:13 pm

I want to encourage you too that there is no harm at all in using a program that isn't pushing your ds. I think my dc could be a program ahead from where we are now. When we started, we started with the easier choice for them just beefing up the language arts and math particularly because their writing skills were still not well developed. As they have matured and their writing has improved, I think we could have skipped ahead, but we haven't and that has been wonderful for us. We've been able to enjoy the program thoroughly. :D I'm sure we would have enjoyed the program at the next level up as well, but it would have been more rigorous and not as relaxed a pace for us. I wanted to share that as it has worked well for us. I do believe that you will find a big difference in Beyond and Bigger if you choose to do Bigger next year. It is a big step up in skills involved. It is such a wonderful program too. I can't say enough about how much we have enjoyed it and learned from it. The character study in Proverbs has been such a blessing! I pray God will direct you to the right placement for your ds this year. :D
Patty in NC

b/g twins '02 Rev2Rev 2014/15
previously enjoyed LHFHG, BLHFHG, Bigger, Preparing, CTC, RTR
******
Nisi Dominus Frusta (Without God, frustration)
Unless the LORD builds the house, its builders labor in vain. Psalm 127:1

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