Read Alouds and Different Guides

[1shortmomof4]

I'm at a crossroads here and trying to understand how to make heads or tails out of using more than one guide and the read-aloud section. My ds is using Bigger (oldest in RTR) and I'm thinking of moving forward with Preparing for him. He is dyslexic so some of the independent boxes will be my responsibility, no matter what. Now, add into that mix a 3rd grader who places somewhere in the Beyond/Bigger range (although he's a visual/spatial learner and HOD has not been a good fit so I have to use something else for him at this point). At any rate, most programs have read-alouds (I'm considering MFW Adventures for him) but how does one do all these read-alouds in a day? The books at the Preparing level are really not appropriate for my little guy so combining is just not an option. My dh works evenings so bedtime reading is not an option. I'm just trying to figure out how to make it work? Any thoughts? Ideas?

Heidi

[blessedmomof4]

Probably the best thing to do is to choose only one set of Storytime read-alouds and do them with everyone, rather than 2 or 3 different sets. Choose the set from the middle child's curriculum and let the rest listen in. About the child who places between Beyond and Bigger, did you try Bigger of Beyond with him? Just wondering-I remember reading that if a child places in between guides it is best to use the lower one, and then add extra reading if necessary. I have one visual spatial learner too and have felt that HOD works well with all learning styles.

[Mom2Monkeys]

I agree about going lower for those that place between levels. I also agree that HID works well with all learning styles (in my house for sure) as I have quite the mixture here! I don't think you'll have any better success with MFW adventures as compared to using Beyond...or HOS in general. Both programs are rich in literature and read alouds.

As for multiple storytimes, you can have your oldest in RTR read the storytime independently. Read the PHFHG storytime and perhaps let your RTR child read the storytime to your youngest or read it over breakfast or lunch. The readings and follow ups take very little time, but I do realize it all adds up.

Just a thought.

[water2wine]

Hi Heidi! I am thinking what you are trying to do is something like trying to do three HOD guides. I can't answer for how to mix a MFW guide in there and I have never used that guide so keep that in mind. I do have one that has some learning delays and requires much of my time. She has CP and is probably a bit dyslexic also. Anyway I have her read aloud to me all directions on everything to make sure she is "seeing" what is really there. That helps a lot. I have the read alouds for three programs and her reading aloud much of hers to me. What I do is alternate reading with independent work. I start with the most likely to get detracted when working on their own to get them going. After reading aloud to them I get them started on some independent work I do the same with the next group and then the last. It is not as hard as it all seems on paper. In practice HOD programs really lend themselves well to combining programs like this, or at least this is the way I do them.
I work more on time blocks than absolute times like many others like to. But looking at the schedule people follow still helps me if I get stuck. viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2093 Every year I make some formal schedule and every year I just end up following the same basic rhythm anyway. It does help though to write out a basic order of the day and try it sometimes a couple of ways. I find sometimes just mixing things up a bit makes a huge difference. That was how I found getting to the most easily detectable first really helps us.

I know others will have more practical advice. But thought I would just offer the basics of what we do.

[Carrie]

Heidi,

I agree that juggling students from high school down to those just beginning to read can be a wide range and make for a very busy momma. We have that at our house too! Add to that the fact that some of your learners have challenges in the reading department, and this will add time to your day no matter what curriculum you use.

In pondering your situation, I will share that in our guides from RTR on up, we do plan the choice for storytime to be read either by the student or by the parent. I'm thinking that your older daughter could be reading her own storytime in RTR to help you in that area. Depending on the difficulty of the history and science material for your older child, hopefully she is also able to read some of that material, saving you from having to read it all to her (which adds significant time).

As far as your son in Bigger Hearts goes, we do typically recommend that you only do one storytime with your students. So, if you're doing more than one HOD guide, we wouldn't be planning for you to do multiple storytimes each day. With that in mind, you'd want to choose one set of storytime books to read aloud to your group. It is likely that your older daughter should still do her own storytime if possible, or else the extensions to raise the level to whatever you feel is appropriate to her though. If you're reading her Storytime to her though, then you'll need to reassess so you don't get overloaded.

Another thought I had is that we typically wouldn't recommend that you do back-to-back guides such as doing Beyond and Bigger Hearts at the same time. If you do have to do this kind of situation, it is likely that the teaching load will be heavier than you'd like (when keeping in mind that you are having to do so much yet with your older learner in RTR due to her unique needs). Usually having a child in RTR would mean that you'd be gaining some time back to work with your youngers. I can understand that the learning challenges of your older student makes this less feasible, so I'm thinking that the combination of time spent with your older, along with trying to do 2 programs back-to-back with younger learners who are still trying to grasp reading is making your day longer than it should be! Likely, some of this affects how well your younger child is doing in Beyond.

A couple of thoughts I have are as follows:
1) If at all possible, I'd move toward having your older daughter read as much of her texts for RTR or for Revival to Revolution on her own as she possibly can. Even if she doesn't have terrific comprehension, taking from it what she can is a goal.

2) You'll likely be reading the texts to your Bigger Hearts child as he moves into Preparing Hearts, but Preparing Hearts is a 4 day plan so that should help some. This will potentially be where more of your time is, but I would really try to have your son read the Independent History Box readings and the science readings on his own if at all possible. The science readings are especially short. You could even do Preparing Hearts at half-speed for awhile if needed to ease into it. But the skill progression from Bigger Hearts to Preparing Hearts is such a good one that you will reap the benefits as you move into Preparing, which should make it less intensive than Bigger Hearts.

3) I would keep going in Beyond with your younger child and just work your way through it whether he seems to be taking it all in or not. While you could easily add colorful books and images to try to match his visual/spatial personality if needed, I wouldn't work terribly hard in that area, as at the age he is he'll also need to be developing his auditory skills and moving toward comprehension in books without pictures. The readings in Beyond will stretch his auditory skills and help him develop strengths in other areas that will be of such help to him as he moves up through the grades. If you do continue on with Beyond, I would likely have the older brother who is moving into Preparing Hearts listen in to the chapter book readings from Beyond with his younger brother for Storytime. In this way, they could do Storytime together. You would then omit the Storytime for Preparing Hearts but instead be sure that the child in Preparing Hearts is doing the Independent History Study box and the Science Box, as these will be the more important skills for him. As your middle child moves into Preparing Hearts, and hopefully a bit more independence, you may find Beyond a better fit overall in your day.

4) I would work to be as consistent as possible with Beyond and systematically move forward with it every day. It is amazing how much progress those little ones make when you just work the guide, instead of continually pondering whether it fits the child. I share this because I spent years switching through things with my oldest son, always looking for the perfect fit, yet the greatest progress he makes is always when I just settle in and do what I have for a whole school year. The skills are what is needed in a steady progression, and they are often what end up lacking when hopping from one curriculum to another or when being sporadic in our teaching. Yet, it is the skills the kiddos need to move toward more independence and a higher level of learning. With this in mind, it honestly would be better to just head through Beyond, and then evaluate again when you finish to see the progress. The lessons are short, the readings are short, but the skills are all there. Sometimes it isn't readily apparent until you are almost done and looking back.

As the momma, you will know far better than me what is right for your family and if the Lord brings you to change curriculum, He will also give you peace in that. I just wanted to talk through some things that I've found that may be of help to you as you ponder. Hopefully, some of it will be of help! I know you must be weary as you get closer to the end of the year, yet I want to encourage you that it sounds like your kiddos have made good progress overall. It's important to take time to feel good about that.

I think in the looking back, you will see strong gains and a good steady progression of skills that if you continue on with HOD will make your life easier and easier as you go. Each guide has a rhyme and reason to it that prepares the child for the next guide in line. If you give each guide a year, I think you will truly see its fruit. I pray the Lord will show you what He desires for your children, whatever that may be, and that He will give you peace in Him as you journey.

Blessings,
Carrie

[1shortmomof4]

Thank you all for helping and responding to my pondering issues and questions. I am inclined to keep my one ds in HOD for Preparing because I've seen the progress that he has made both educationally, spiritually and emotionally. I will have to figure out what to do about storytime for next year - and perhaps it is something that I may pick a half on-half off so as not to burn myself out.

The issues with my youngest and Beyond really has to go with how he sees his world. He needs to see the big picture first and then how the pieces all come together. This is why I believe he disengages. He loves to listen to chapter books - we just finished The Cricket in Times Square and he can remember the whole thing and tell the whole story. He's been known to listen to a story and be "asleep" and yet remembers the whole thing the next day. Go figure! He just needs more to the story - the short readings each day are hard for him to connect to. Here is an example of how he learns - say we are learning about our senses. He needs to see the face first and then go to the eyes, ears, nose, etc. Visual/spatial kids are wired just a bit different - they are extra smart (his vocabulary is advanced, he is a natural reader/speller) but very sensitive and their handwriting doesn't match their other educational skills. In a way, he has a learning disability - just a different kind. I may try again with Beyond and see how things go. Ack!

As for my dd, well, she'll be fine. She does her own storytime reading but I have had to read the history to her (and the Shakespeare). She has a different kind of dyslexia - not of the spectrum where she reverses letters but her eyes move off the words and then her thoughts and then she just daydreams. It is all about the size of the print of the text - I'm wondering if perhaps a kindle or nook might work so that we could enlarge the letters. Audio books works wonders for her! That is why I'm so happy about the Rev. guide - seems to have even more audio options and I'll have to search around and see what I can find audio-wise for the other books.

I was trying to figuring out how people who are teaching from more than one guide to those read-alouds.

Heidi

[1shortmomof4]

After I signed off this morning I was sitting at the table and sharing my pondering thoughts with my two oldest (14 and 17) and their take on this was "you should keep him in Preparing. He needs to be challenged. You think he can't do it but he can. He's going into 6th and needs to step it up." They think that I'm being a softy and a pushover and that he, indeed, can do the work if he had to.

Very interesting. Unfortunately, they had no wise advice with regards to their littlest brother.

[Carrie]

Heidi,

Thanks for updating us on your thoughts. It's sounds like you are working your way through your options. What a good idea to visit with your older kiddos. I like to do that too as it helps me clearly recognize what I'm thinking! I understand what you're saying about your whole to part younger son. I have one of those too. I think the Lord gave me a bit of everything in the mix of my 4 boys, just to make sure I stay humble and at his feet each day!:D

I wasn't sure if you saw the part in my post where I shared a possible time saver for the storytime books. I'll quote it below just in case it helps as you ponder:

If you do continue on with Beyond, I would likely have the older brother who is moving into Preparing Hearts listen in to the chapter book readings from Beyond with his younger brother for Storytime. In this way, they could do Storytime together. You would then omit the Storytime for Preparing Hearts but instead be sure that the child in Preparing Hearts is doing the Independent History Study box and the Science Box, as these will be the more important skills for him.

Blessings,
Carrie

[1shortmomof4]

But those books in Preparing are soooo good. I loved Tirzah, and the others look so wonderful! The only one I might wait on is the Raiders one - I have the whole series and his older brother read them all but that one could wait another year or two.....

I'm thinking Preparing and moving forward....I was a bit worried, too, about what would happen time-wise for high school for him but that is in 3 years and who knows what skills and progress he'll have made by then - I'll cross it when I get there! I'm still deciding on whether to take out Beyond and give it a whirl again for a bit and see how things go....hmmmmm

Again, thank you so much for your advice and help! It is definitely helping me see things clearer and to stay focused. The grass is not necessarily greener elsewhere, for sure!

Heidi

[Carrie]

Heidi,

Depending on how sensitive your younger student is, you could instead do the Preparing Hearts read-alouds with both kiddos instead. I wouldn't mention this, except your younger student will be a third grader and that age could actually fit in Preparing Hearts if he fit there on the placement chart. So, it wouldn't be totally over his head to consider doing the Preparing Hearts read-alouds with both boys, while still doing Beyond with your younger student. Also, if you kept your younger son in Beyond, you'd wouldn't have back-to-back guides going. You'd instead have one in Rev2Rev, one in Preparing Hearts, and one in Beyond. While I'm not saying that back-to-back guides are not do-able, it is nice as a parent to have a break between teaching the same guide two years in a row. It also balances your teaching time out a bit more as Preparing Hearts start to move the kiddos toward a bit more independence.

One other thought I had is that no matter what route you end up going with your youngest son, you'll likely end up using a separate guide with him to meet his needs. Whether you use HOD or something else for him, the time required of you will likely be similar. So with that thought in mind, if you do think that you'd like your younger son to progress into Bigger Hearts someday, then it may be wise to use Beyond with him this year, as it is great preparation for Bigger Hearts. One guide truly prepares a child well for the next guide in line, and the skills found in Beyond are great stepping stones to the skills needed in the future. I think you'll be surpised at how many benefits you'll reap by staying within HOD for two years in a row. The second year is when you see all of the fruit emerging from the previous year, and it does truly make the parent's life much easier as the child is better prepared to do what we are asking of them.

Just some thoughts running through my mind...

Blessings,
Carrie

[water2wine]

Oh my gosh had to book mark this one great advice and information! Heidi I just wanted to say that I do back to back guides but only because my oldest is really outside of the timing God had Carrie writing. It works great for us but it is all in the older independent years so she hits it very independent and then the next group come through it really at two grade levels earlier so we run it different. For me that is really exciting. But if it were on the younger years where I had the more dependent and more involved mom reading aloud time I think it would be harder. The one year break where I did Bigger for instance then had Preparing in there and came back to Bigger with the younger two was just absolutely perfect and refreshing. I really think the guides are flexible to in most cases not have it be back to back with the guides. So I would try to use the flexibility to your advantage.

I love the suggestion of Beyond with Preparing read alouds. Also love that your kids know what is going on with the other kid. I always go to my oldest to get the scoop if I am stumped with is it attitude or do I have them over their head, especially with my dd with CP. Sometimes they need a push. And sometimes they need to learn new ways to see things. Just reading what transpired in your thread and how you describe your younger one. I want to really encourage you to consider Beyond again. I know some kids learn differently and see differently. I have quite a mix and quite a gene pool at my house. Sometimes we do need to cater to them in ways and sometimes the best thing we can do is while we cater to them also teach them new ways to learn and new ways to see things. I know for my dd with CP I do need to cater to her learning style a bit, but the huge lesson I have recently learned is I also need to train her to take in information differently to help her build new learning skills so that she can hit her greatest potential. So now we do a bit of both. She is in CM HOD style boot camp learning to gain the skills she really needs to progress in HOD because honestly they are the skills she needs to progress in life. I progressed her carrying her weaknesses thinking I wanted her to have the information because she is smart in some ways. It worked while she was reading delayed but now I see we need to learn the skills of how to learn and that is what HOD really gives them no matter how they learn best, still they need to know how to learn. So now having gone through Beyond to RTR (in progress) with HOD I see really that pivotal course is Beyond. I put my dd in Bigger because she could comprehend and her age but what she needed skill wise was Beyond. So now really what we are doing is gaining all the skills now she really needed from Beyond even though she has done Bigger and Preparing. I think it would have been better to have stayed in Beyond and not progressed her until she got the skills even though intellectually she was able to understand the material of the higher guides. I am not sure that relates to your youngest or not but just wanted to share in case it does.