dictation in Bigger vs Beyond

[erin.kate]

Hi again!

Okay ... I am still so stuck on whether to choose Beyond or Bigger for my DD7 (rising 2nd grader).

I started reading through the weekly check-ins to get a feel for the work, and I have a question about the dictation in Bigger.

Would she be expected to copy a dictated poem, with accuracy in spelling and punctuation when beginning Bigger, or will she grow to learn those skills over the year?

How does dictation differ in Bigger and Beyond?

She places squarely in Bigger, but she's had no real exposure to history read aloud (aside from Bible history) and we currently do words to simple sentences of dictation. Not several sentences or paragraphs. sigh. I'm going crazy trying to make the best decision.

Thank you!

[Mom2Monkeys]

The poetry is for copywork, and it's not used for dictation at all.

Beyond has two spelling lists, list 1 and 2. Bigger has list 2 sPelling words and level 2 dictation to choose between. It's short sentences.

Hope that helps some!

[erin.kate]

Phew, Tamara, I was thinking GOSH, my daughter is super behind. I feel better.

Decisions, decisions. A million thanks!

[pjdobro]

You already have your answer about the dictation in Bigger, but I thought I would pop in here and add my .02 worth.

It sounds as though your daughter would be fine with the dictation passages. Here is a link to another post that shows some samples of the dictation in the various guides: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1221. Just scroll down to the last post. Level 2 is the level in Bigger. They start out very simply and gradually increase in difficulty. It sounds like what you have been doing with dictation would be similar to what is in Bigger.

The read alouds in Bigger can be a bit more challenging. You could find the core history guides for Bigger here: http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/10070 and here: http://www.franciacenter.net/html/firsthistory.html You could look those over and perhaps read a sampling to your dd to see how that goes. Have you done much narrating? I'm wondering why Mike and Carrie suggested Beyond if she clearly places in Bigger?

Both programs are great so you can't go wrong no matter which way you choose. I think you would find the hands on activities in Bigger very nice with Singapore 2A and 2B so no matter which way you decide to go, you might want the guide just for that.

[erin.kate]

You already have your answer about the dictation in Bigger, but I thought I would pop in here and add my .02 worth.

It sounds as though your daughter would be fine with the dictation passages. Here is a link to another post that shows some samples of the dictation in the various guides: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1221. Just scroll down to the last post. Level 2 is the level in Bigger. They start out very simply and gradually increase in difficulty. It sounds like what you have been doing with dictation would be similar to what is in Bigger.

The read alouds in Bigger can be a bit more challenging. You could find the core history guides for Bigger here: http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/10070 and here: http://www.franciacenter.net/html/firsthistory.html You could look those over and perhaps read a sampling to your dd to see how that goes. Have you done much narrating? I'm wondering why Mike and Carrie suggested Beyond if she clearly places in Bigger?

Both programs are great so you can't go wrong no matter which way you choose. I think you would find the hands on activities in Bigger very nice with Singapore 2A and 2B so no matter which way you decide to go, you might want the guide just for that.

Hi Patty,

From Carrie: "I would lean toward Beyond Little Hearts for her, as the jump from MFW 1st grade to Bigger Hearts would be a very large one. While you are supplementing MFW quite a bit, overall your daughter's level of reading and writing sounds like it would fit well within what is expected within Beyond. While your little honey possibly might be able to handle Bigger Hearts now with the skills you've described, I would be concerned as we look down the road toward Preparing Hearts and Creation to Christ in being sure that the reading and writing level required does not get to be too much for her too fast. If your little honey were just finishing the Emerging Reader's Set (beginning chapter book style readings), had already finished Book 3 or so of Explode the Code, was done with FLL 1, had been through Spelling List 1 and 2, had an introduction to formal literature study, and had plenty of practice narrating, then she'd be better suited to Bigger Hearts. Those are the key readiness areas that I'm looking at as I ponder."

So, my worry is that Gracie will have finished FLL1 and R&S phonics 1, in addition to the phonics from MFW1, and the Emerging Readers set in Beyond and Bigger would be perfect for her. We have already read Stories of Great Americans for Little Americans aloud and we discuss it. We read and narrate our daily Bible stories as well as Pagoo. I was not thorough enough, likely, in my email with Carrie. We have not done formal literature study ... just read lots of good books ... most of the Beyond lit selections, actually. We have not done spelling or dictation aside from the few words per week that I dictate from our phonics lessons. I also dictate the sentence summary she comes up with for her Bible notebook and we work on spelling/punctuation with that, as well.

I guess it rests with literature, really, as she is ready in the other areas, and I'm not sure about buying Beyond and the guide for Bigger to supplement with the math activities ... in a perfect world, yes, but not where we are right now. I thought that the ER set was an option for Bigger? Maybe I need to go back and look again. I'm feeling a little discouraged, I think. I know that both Beyond and Bigger would be okay, but I just want the best for her.

I need to research more about how the literature is studied in Bigger. Maybe I should just go with Beyond ... but then I'm adding cursive, doing FLL2 until we get to Bigger with R&S2 (or R&S2 and then R&S3 in Bigger and R&S4 in Preparing and CTG), and I won't have the full Singapore 2A/2B guide/activities.

But, you know what ... I just read the first week sample from Beyond again ... and this is probably best. That would give us a year between when we read SGALA and when we do it in third grade it will be fresh and on a new level of study. Also, I think my Kinders could participate loosely with the Science in Beyond, as well. We could start Bigger and DITHOR in 3rd grade and not worry about readiness at all. I think I will go with R&S2 this year though, and get her back on track with Preparing/CTG, like Carrie explained to me. We can also start new with spelling in Beyond and move through the lists systematically, versus trying to jump in with Bigger. And, truly, she's had no exposure to American History, just Bible history (which she LOVES), so perhaps we should not miss out on Beyond.

Okie dokie ... I feel so much better. Is Singapore 2A/2B scheduled in the Appendix of Beyond? So, we'd just be missing the activities? Hmm. This is my only hang-up now.

Thanks for sparking questions to help me re-evaluate!

[pjdobro]

Like I said before, you can't go wrong either way. They are both great programs. We did Beyond for 2nd grade and are currently doing Bigger for 3rd. This has been a good fit for us especially because of the amount of writing in Bigger. My dc weren't ready for the amount of writing in Bigger before this year, but they have really grown into it.

As far as literature study, you'll be doing similar studies both years in Beyond and Bigger, studying the different genres of literature and studying some story elements as well as personal character traits. With Bigger it just goes a bit deeper than Beyond. All of the suggested titles are wonderful and the questions and activities that you will do are wonderful. It is a wonderful way to begin to study literature and will get you ready for DITHR. It's true that the Emerging readers schedule is in both Beyond and Bigger. You use it when your dd is ready. I highly recommend the emerging readers if your dd isn't well beyond them in reading. They really help build fluency in reading, step by step. They also help dc start thinking about the literature in a deeper way and start them on the path to better narrating.

When we were using Beyond as our core program last year, we were using Bigger for the hands on math activities and using R&S2 for grammar. My dc were just ready for a bit higher math and language arts than Beyond at that time and had already done the Beyond math and LA. it worked out wonderfully and when it came time to study Bigger this year, I already had the guide. This year there are no hands on activities for math so we can just follow the schedule in Bigger and we're doing R&S3 at the pace of 1 lesson per day. Next year in Preparing, we'll move onto R&S4 as scheduled in the guide. So if you do decide to go with Beyond as your core, it's not a big deal at all to have the Bigger guide for the math activities. It just puts you ahead for the following year. The schedule for Singapore 2A and 2B is in the appendix of Beyond so you can just do the textbook/workbook combo if you choose. The hands on activities are really nice though so if you can afford to go ahead and get the Bigger guide, I would. That way you could do the hands on activities and be ready for the following year. I'm funny though, I can't hardly stand not knowing what lies ahead so I typically have a guide ahead in my hands. I've had my Preparing guide since late fall and I'm already thinking about getting the next guides!

I hope I didn't confuse you or cause you to second guess your decision. Carrie is familiar with other programs out there and would give you the best placement advice. If you feel you didn't give her all the facts, you could always check with her again, but if it were me I would go with her recommendations. That's why we started with LHFHG in 1st grade. It was Carrie's recommendation and it has been great. My dc have been challenged but not overwhelmed and have been slowly growing in skills over the last few years.

[erin.kate]

Hi Patty ... Your detailed and thoughtful replies are such a testament to HOD. Thank you so much.

With huge gratitude to you and to other amazing women on this board I finally clicked "purchase" and placed my order. We are officially switching curricula come August.

I went with Carrie's and your (among others') suggestions and decided on Beyond for Gracie. I ordered the Economy Package, The Emerging Reader's Set, The Basic Package, and the Deluxe Package (but I chose some titles from Classic, Boy, and Girl to mix it up, and since I have two girls and two boys at home). I decided for the time being to hold off on R&S2 and to go with Carrie's suggestion to continue with a more CM approach so I chose PLL. I also ordered the Tchaikovsky package from MFW for this level, which will satisfy my music study itch, aside from the hymns. Oh, and Cheerful Cursive.

One of the best parts was that all of that was so incredibly affordable ... important to us on one income, adopting internationally, and raising four kids as simply as we can in upper New England.

Now, I just have to wait for August. At least I can busy my mind and hands with preparing a little in advance, too, once my box comes.

I will go ahead and order the Bigger guide for the Math activities, but my DH says I need to wait for a few weeks (I also ordered K materials and B4FIAR for my toddler) until he recoups. Thank you for bringing the math thing to light for me. I would have been sad to have missed that part, for certain.

So, many, many thanks again for all of your encouragement and explanation. I'm so grateful. You really helped remind me about the skill building from guide to guide, as Carrie explained to me, and that brought me ultimately to Beyond ... plus the history spines are just too good to miss.

Blessings!

[pjdobro]

Yippee! I'm so excited for you to have your order done and be awaiting box day. That is such a huge relief to have the decision made. I pray your box comes quickly and you have a blessed year with HOD!

[Gwenny]

Good choice!! I was watching this and hoping you would pick Beyond. I think we are always in such a hurry for our littles to grow up, it's hard to remember that they are so young, especially when she is your oldest. Now that my oldest is 23 (and my baby is now 3) I can tell you, your children are SO YOUNG!! I remember thinking that my oldest was so old at 8, now my current 8 year old I don't think that.

Enjoy this young age, it goes so quickly and there are so many more important things going on than whether or not they are advanced in "school". If you did nothing but keep her home and live your life with her, playing, cooking, reading books and such, she would not be behind. The HOD is just icing on the cake.

Blessings,
Nancy

[MrsMandy]

I was thinking the same thing. My son is goin on 9 this summer and while he would be in 4th grade in any school I put him in bigger because he is just not ready to be doing written dictations yet. He really resists narrating at all yet can tell me very detailed and elaborate "stories" about almost anything but if I ask for a narration or a re telling it is like pulling teeth. He would rather be defient and spanked than tell me one thing he remembered from a single sentence. I am not kidding either. I have been using MFW which does little for teaching "how" to narrate. When I was looking through A First Book in American History and saw the length of each lessons reading I thought there is no way he is going to do this. However, then I saw the questions after each chapter and I asked him if reading (I may write them out and have him keep them in front of him) the questions before I read and letting him answer them as soon as I had read the answer and then again after the entire reading would help. He said it might so we tried it, it was late so he did not really remember anything I read BUT he willingly tried it. HOD Bigger is going to be perfect for him as it walks him through this very thing and I would not have thought about how to do his readings without the dictation how to sheet. I guess I probably should have posted this as a new thread somewhere

[erin.kate]

Yippee! I'm so excited for you to have your order done and be awaiting box day. That is such a huge relief to have the decision made. I pray your box comes quickly and you have a blessed year with HOD!

Thank you, thank you, thank you!

[erin.kate]

Good choice!! I was watching this and hoping you would pick Beyond. I think we are always in such a hurry for our littles to grow up, it's hard to remember that they are so young, especially when she is your oldest. Now that my oldest is 23 (and my baby is now 3) I can tell you, your children are SO YOUNG!! I remember thinking that my oldest was so old at 8, now my current 8 year old I don't think that.

Enjoy this young age, it goes so quickly and there are so many more important things going on than whether or not they are advanced in "school". If you did nothing but keep her home and live your life with her, playing, cooking, reading books and such, she would not be behind. The HOD is just icing on the cake.

Blessings,
Nancy

This made me tear up a little. I know, my "oldest" is such a baby still, but oh how I always feel like she is the guinea pig. lol. For the first time in a long time I am so jazzed about school! (Too bad it's only March.)

Thank you for encouraging me, as well!

[erin.kate]

I was thinking the same thing. My son is goin on 9 this summer and while he would be in 4th grade in any school I put him in bigger because he is just not ready to be doing written dictations yet. He really resists narrating at all yet can tell me very detailed and elaborate "stories" about almost anything but if I ask for a narration or a re telling it is like pulling teeth. He would rather be defient and spanked than tell me one thing he remembered from a single sentence. I am not kidding either. I have been using MFW which does little for teaching "how" to narrate. When I was looking through A First Book in American History and saw the length of each lessons reading I thought there is no way he is going to do this. However, then I saw the questions after each chapter and I asked him if reading (I may write them out and have him keep them in front of him) the questions before I read and letting him answer them as soon as I had read the answer and then again after the entire reading would help. He said it might so we tried it, it was late so he did not really remember anything I read BUT he willingly tried it. HOD Bigger is going to be perfect for him as it walks him through this very thing and I would not have thought about how to do his readings without the dictation how to sheet. I guess I probably should have posted this as a new thread somewhere

I love this! Thank you for sharing. I completely agree that Beyond will lay the foundations that Gracie does not yet have mastered that will prepare her for Bigger on up. No rush, right? She is so strong in math, science, hand writing ... the very subjects that are least subjective ... and she still works hard at reading, but it is not a natural reading ability yet, and she's had little to no experience with history aside from Bible history in MFW. So, Beyond will fill the gaps and enrich what she does know well. I'm super excited! Thank you, as well, for thinking of us as I made this seemingly impossible decision.