First day of Bigger and Spelling question

[Benelli]

Hello all! Well, today was Ben's first day doing Bigger. He loved it, and so did I! We actually took a break mid-day to go to an archery range for "PE" with homeschooling friends of ours (I have my archery certification, as does my friend, so we are qualified to open the local girl scout camp's archery range whenever we want.) But even the reading, lessons, math, geography, music, history, everything. He loved it! He prayed prayers of thanksgiving to God at snack time, and thanked me several times throughout the day for being willing to homeschool him. What a blessing!

He is definitely well beyond the beginning spelling units, so we did dictation. He has a lot of trouble with capitalization (capitalizes letters that should be lower case). He also still writes letters backwards, and he forms his letters & number from the "bottom up", if you KWIM. (From what I can tell, he is a right brained learner?) Anyway, when I showed my homeschooling friend today my copy of Bigger, she loved it, and had never heard of it, and she brought up a question.

What about Spelling rules? You know, long e, short e, two vowels together, silent e, etc.? It looks to me like the spelling lists are pretty much to just be memorized. Of course, the dictation will help my son's spelling, when he has to correct his misspelled words. But, is there some point where they actually learn the rules of phonics? He had been doing this throughout 2nd grade at Public school up until this point. Did HOD already cover that in a prior age group? My friend uses A Beka, so maybe she's just used to a totally different method. But, she mentioned that he needs to know the rules for more difficult spelling for the future, and for the Iowa test. In Virginia, we have to test each year.

Sorry, maybe that's what you all mean in the posts I found here where you say "formal" grammar is not covered until age 10? I'm just a little confused. Can someone explain "spelling" HOD's way vs. other ways to me? Or, maybe I haven't gone far enough into the R&S book?

[my3sons]

Hi Benelli! So happy for you and your ds that Bigger's going great! I'd love to give you a long answer here but am about out of time here - so the short of it is that the spelling lists are organized according to the spelling rules and patterns. You may just want to do the spelling list, even just the rules you think he could use as a review. You can easily start at any point with the spelling. Maybe you'll want to start in the middle of the spelling lists and when you finish, begin at the start of dictation. It's meant to be a continuation of skills like this, so it's very flexible like that. I know you'll get more answers here, but that's my thoughts off the top of my head - HTH!
In Christ,
Julie

[MommyInTraining]

I would like to know if spelling rules are addressed also.

Thanks!

[joyfulheart]

He is definitely well beyond the beginning spelling units, so we did dictation. He has a lot of trouble with capitalization (capitalizes letters that should be lower case). He also still writes letters backwards, and he forms his letters & number from the "bottom up", if you KWIM. (From what I can tell, he is a right brained learner?)

The errors he's making are classic dyslexia errors, especially if hes in 2nd/3rd grade. Have you considered having him tested? Two of my boys are dyslexic, the third isn't and that's just my experience. If you have a Scottish Rite, testing is free. If you suspect it, it's good to know for sure, so you can make any necessary interventions.

Right brained learners (which many are dyslexic, many are not) are creative learners, they learn by seeing, touching, experiencing, and listening. They learn as a whole before they learn the details, which makes handwriting, reading and math frustrating for them and others. They are intelligent, and very fun to teach! At least, that's my experience!

I am going to let Carrie explain the vocabulary better, but the way I see it in the Bigger book, week one has vocabulary words that deal with the short a, 2nd week is short e, 3rd week is short i, etc... This is almost identical to how the public schools do vocabulary here too. The kids don't learn the "real" rules until much much later, but learning these vocabulary words makes the rules make more sense later on.

Also, if the spelling words are too easy for him (they appear to get harder as you go-- in the beginning they are easier, just like in public school). ANyway, my suggestion is to take words from his reading (both in history, biography, etc...) and make those his spelling words if he needs more of a challenge. For my boys, they need easy words once in a while to feel successful. Spelling doesn't come easy for them, so the easy words make them feel successful. Does that make sense?

The dictation will strengthen his errors in handwriting (capitalization, etc..) My sons both have weaknesses with this and punctuation. Eventually, they'll get it!

As far as grammar (nouns verbs, etc...) that is covered in the Grammar book.

[Carrie]

Benelli,

I'm so glad that you had a good first day with "Bigger...". What a sweet story about your son's prayer at snack time. That just blesses a mother's heart, doesn't it!

As far as your questions about the spelling rules, the ladies have done a good job of answering you already. I'll just add that the spelling lists in "Bigger..." are each designed around a word pattern (short 'a', short 'e', short 'i', etc.) Then, as you go along the patterns get into long vowels, vowel digraphs, etc. This is the way almost all spelling texts, public school or homeschool are set up. We made our word lists from the Dolch and a large combination of other high frequency word lists. The goal in "Bigger..." is to get kids to visualize the correct spelling and formation of letters in their mind.

If your little guy is still capitalizing letters in the middle of words and reversing letters, then he won't be ready for studied dictation. Even if he can spell the words on the spelling lists with the right letters, if the letters aren't written correctly (lowercase and facing the right direction), then he needs more practice with the spelling lists.

He also needs to experience success! Charlotte Mason says one letter written correctly is better than a whole line of letters done incorrectly. So, I would go systematically through the spelling as it is set up in "Bigger...". I would do each of the cards and activities in the spelling box daily taking a year to go through them all.

Then, I would start dictation next year. Habitually forming the letters incorrectly takes time to undo, and if there are other learning issues there, it may never go away completely. But, you may surprised by his progress over time of following "Bigger's spelling lessons". I would encourage you to give it a try this year and see.

Blessings,
Carrie

[Benelli]

Thanks so much guys!

Carrie, I hadn't really thought about making him do the spelling lists for correctness in upper/lower case and backwards letters. I know how he hates to write, and I know he can spell the words, because I was having him spell them orally to me. (And, from helping him study for spelling tests in his PS class, I knew he was at a more challenging level than the early units of Bigger...) But, maybe you're right. Maybe I should stick to the tests according to the unit we're working on in Bigger. And, correct him for the upper/lower case issues, and the capitalization issues. Something to think about that I hadn't thought of.

I also had not thought of dyslexia. I'll check to see about testing for that if I can't correct his writing problems in a couple of months.

One other related question... For any notebooking, Bible verse writing, etc. I was intending on making him do his "best" writing - correct capitalization, punctuation, neat handwriting, etc. Today, when I did that, he balked, then almost cried! He said, his teacher at school just let him write it his way. What do you guys do? Always their "best" work except journaling, which was what I was thinking, or only the very best for certain things?

BTW - second day, and other than the writing, we both LOVED it!!

[Melanie]

The errors could be dyslexia, or it could just be "habit". If he is a good reader (fluent and comprehends what he reads) then I would guess this is just a habit he has not been forced to correct. Most ps teachers do count those type of errors (backwards letters, incorrect capitalization) as wrong on spelling tests, so I'm not sure how he got by with it for so long....

I've not done Bigger, so I have no advice on how to tweak the writing portion of that program. I do think it would be a good idea to go very slowly through the program....the writing will pick up significantly in Preparing and you want to have him ready for it when you get there!

My sister is going through this with my nephew....brilliant kid, can't write at all! He is a lefty, starts all letters at the bottom (no backwards) and she spent the summer doing Handwriting without Tears with him. Much improved! He's in ps, so he was not being corrected at all.

[Carrie]

Benelli,

As hard as it may seem, there are many public school teachers who don't require the right spelling or correct copying of words by their students (often because they have too many kiddos in the class, or they have been taught that inventive spelling is o.k.). Either way, because of this, there are many children who are still using inventive spelling in middle school and high school! Inventive spelling has its place with little ones, but it is not meant to go on and on, or it will be habit forming. It does sound like this is part of the problem with your little honey.

To me, it was a dawning to realize that many spelling programs or exercises where children are allowed to use inventive spelling, result in helping the child visualize the incorrect spelling! Eventually, the mind has seen words spelled wrong so many times that the wrong spelling looks right!

Spelling is not as much of a "knowing how to spell difficult words" exercise as it is a "learning to see the word correctly in your mind and transfer it correctly to paper" type of exercise. Ask yourself, "What is the purpose for learning spelling words?" If kiddos can't write them correctly on paper, does it matter that they can spell them orally? In life we are not called to orally spell words very often.

So, the best way to start correcting this pattern is by requiring slow, steady copywork from a model that is written correctly. You may need to write what he is to copy right on the paper and leave space underneath each line for him to copy directly beneath your text (matching it letter for letter).

If your little guy is in tears over the amount of writing, then only have him copy the beginning portion of the text correctly, and then you can write the rest of it for him. A little bit done correctly is better than a whole lot done incorrectly. Over time, gradually increase the portion of the copying that he does, and decrease the part you do!

I would encourage you to see if you agree with what I've shared above. I know it was a "lightbulb" moment for me to read about the Charlotte Mason philosphy of spelling and copywork. It made much sense to me, as all of the students I'd had in school who didn't spell well had trouble seeing the correct spelling. They couldn't tell the correctly spelled words from the incorrectly spelled ones.

Copywork and steady practice in visualizing correct spellings will help over time, but you will need to give it a year to really make a significant difference.

Blessings,
Carrie

[6timeboymom]

I just thought I'd jump in quick and give you a story of my 7 yr old who's doing bigger. I printed out his spelling words on an index card for him to practice with, and as he was spelling them to one of his big brothers today he suddenly said, "Hey! All these words have the long E sound, don't they??"
So...he's getting it!
I have been picking words from the extension pack books for my older two who are doing Bigger with him that have the same rule, so they are all kind of on the same page.

[inHistiming]

Benelli,

I'm so glad that you had a good first day with "Bigger...". What a sweet story about your son's prayer at snack time. That just blesses a mother's heart, doesn't it!

As far as your questions about the spelling rules, the ladies have done a good job of answering you already. I'll just add that the spelling lists in "Bigger..." are each designed around a word pattern (short 'a', short 'e', short 'i', etc.) Then, as you go along the patterns get into long vowels, vowel digraphs, etc. This is the way almost all spelling texts, public school or homeschool are set up. We made our word lists from the Dolch and a large combination of other high frequency word lists. The goal in "Bigger..." is to get kids to visualize the correct spelling and formation of letters in their mind.

If your little guy is still capitalizing letters in the middle of words and reversing letters, then he won't be ready for studied dictation. Even if he can spell the words on the spelling lists with the right letters, if the letters aren't written correctly (lowercase and facing the right direction), then he needs more practice with the spelling lists.

He also needs to experience success! Charlotte Mason says one letter written correctly is better than a whole line of letters done incorrectly. So, I would go systematically through the spelling as it is set up in "Bigger...". I would do each of the cards and activities in the spelling box daily taking a year to go through them all.

Then, I would start dictation next year. Habitually forming the letters incorrectly takes time to undo, and if there are other learning issues there, it may never go away completely. But, you may surprised by his progress over time of following "Bigger's spelling lessons". I would encourage you to give it a try this year and see.

Blessings,
Carrie

I agree with all Carrie says here! My daughter has experienced such success with the spelling methods/copy work in Beyond! She will now say, very confidently, that she thinks she "got them all right". This is a child who would cry because she couldn't read, and would speak negatively any time she had to write anything! And her handwriting has improved immensely due to the copy work. Trust Carrie's methods because they really are so helpful. You will not be disappointed!!