Math Woes-Need Advice

[John'smom]

We are having Math struggles here. I don't know if I'm not being patient enough or what. We do not use Singapore. We use Math U See. This is what I used with my ds before coming to HOD. My ds has never had any problems with Math U See, but he is more Math and Science minded (had a slow start to reading, didn't read well until the middle of 2nd grade, now is fine). My dd did Math U See Primer last year and everything was fine. This year we started Alpha and she is just not being able to retain her Math facts. Of course MUS is mastery and you're not to move on, after spending an extra 2 weeks on some of the facts (+2, +9). She still doesn't have all of them down cold. This is after extra Math pages printed, doing flash cards with me, doing flashcards by herself (reading the whole problem 3 times), and doing online drill.

She began to cry yesterday and tell me that she didn't like Math any more and that it was boring. To be honest my children never talk this way, so understand this isn't coming from a child who has a bad attitude and typically says things are boring. She unlike her brother was a very early reader. She began reading in K, and with veyr little help from me. She just learned what sound each letter made from hearing me go over and over it with her bro. She began reading on her own and I didn't even want to work with her because I was working so intensely with her bro. She has beautiful handwriting and spells correctly words that her bro sometimes struggles with. I'm know Math is not her strong subject obviously, and it seems like my dc are falling into the stereotypes for boys and girls.

I'm wondering if maybe MUS is just not good fit for her. When I was looking at samples of Singapore online, she said it looked like fun. Not that I'm one to have to make everything fun, as that's not life. Making my best guess, I'd say that my dd is visual and auditory. She always memorizes verses before her bro, sings up a storm, but she readily picks up books and seems to learn that way too. I don't know why the MUS isn't working or maybe I'm just not being patient enough. I don't know what it is.

To be honest I'm scared to switch to Singapore, I've heard that there's not a lot of repitition and so how is it going to work better with a child who can't get down the facts with lots of repitition? I know you'll probably naturally give me the thumbs up for Singapore, but I'd love to hear why you think it would work for my dd with what I've described of her. If you have more questions about my dd that will help you with an answer, I'm willing to answer or if you've made a switch with a child that you've had a similiar experience with I'd love to hear that as well.

Sorry for the book I've written here and if you've read it all, God bless you. Prayers would be appreciated to make the right decision.

[raceNzanesmom]

Hello~ I'm new here and this is only my second year with MUS, so consider that.

My 6 y/o is also using MUS Alpha. He does not have the facts down 100%. For his 8s and 9s, he still often uses the blocks. But, he can explain it to me perfectly. For example he might say for 9+8--> 9 comes in and takes one, that makes 1 ten and only 7 units, so 9+8=17. As he's gotten better doing this with the blocks I'll remind him he can see it in his head. He's doing that more now, but still often uses the blocks. I want him to be able to work the problems on his own and explain how he got the answer. He can do that, so I'm fine with him not having the facts completely memorized. We continue to do flashcards, Math Wrap Ups, math games, and real life examples, but I have moved on in the book.

I can't comment on any other math program since MUS is all he's used.

[Alison in KY]

I think it's a common problem to experience. I went through I think 7 math programs before settling on MUS. I finally figured out that some things just take time...like math facts. I kept thinking it was the program that was the problem...but I just didn't have confidence in the teaching part...now I'm a few more years experienced and I'm not stressing out over math facts as much. MY 7 yr old has been on the addition facts for months now and she still doesn't have them down...but we've moved on to subtraction. She just uses her fingers or blocks to help her with the problems. I also have her do 2 rounds of the online MUS facts drill every day...it'll click sometime. If you want to switch, then go ahead, but I think you'd be stuck on these facts with other programs also...it just takes time. Sometimes I've also done other programs that look different, to do extra work while I'm waiting for those facts to click in their head...I've used Singapore and other things during those times also.

[doubleportion]

She began reading in K, and with veyr little help from me. She just learned what sound each letter made from hearing me go over and over it with her bro. She began reading on her own and I didn't even want to work with her because I was working so intensely with her bro. She has beautiful handwriting and spells correctly words that her bro sometimes struggles with. I'm know Math is not her strong subject obviously, and it seems like my dc are falling into the stereotypes for boys and girls.

I'm wondering if maybe MUS is just not good fit for her. When I was looking at samples of Singapore online, she said it looked like fun. Not that I'm one to have to make everything fun, as that's not life. Making my best guess, I'd say that my dd is visual and auditory. She always memorizes verses before her bro, sings up a storm, but she readily picks up books and seems to learn that way too. I don't know why the MUS isn't working or maybe I'm just not being patient enough. I don't know what it is.

To be honest I'm scared to switch to Singapore, I've heard that there's not a lot of repitition and so how is it going to work better with a child who can't get down the facts with lots of repitition?

Your daughter sounds allot like mine- good natural speller, good reader, great handwriting but difficulty with Math. Maybe your dd is more auditory? My dd is and the flashcards and drill pages didn't really help it stick. It wasn't until we went to a audio tape of the facts along with the flashcards that they cemented in her mind.

We don't use MUS so can't give any input there. But we went through three other math programs before coming to Singapore and I decided No Matter What to stick with it. There is repetition in Singapore but not so much on the math facts. I have purchased in the past the Extra Practice Book for my dd when she seemed to need more problems of a certain kind. We used it allot for awhile until some things clicked. We used to get constant tears with Math. Now she has no problem with it 90% of the time. There are still days but they are not as frequent.


HTH

Edie

[my3sons]

My ds didn't get his math facts down with Singapore until later than in other programs, probably 2A/2B for addition/subtraction, 3A/3B for multiplication/division. I think that's because much time is spent on mental math, and also many different skills are incorporated in solving a single problem. Instead of memorizing the facts, my ds seemed to just see how to mentally get to the answer quickly using strategies, and then eventually he'd done it enough he just knew them. I see the same thing happening with my middle ds. We enjoy Singapore very much, but I realize it may not be for everyone. MUS is a well-respected math program as well.

So, if you would like to stick with MUS, could you just provide her with counters and move on? The crying is tough - on her, on you. Maybe moving on and letting her use counters with MUS is worth a try.

Or, you could give the Singapore placement test and start wherever dd places, using the hands-on plans in HOD. Will it make your dd know her facts more quickly? Probably not, but it may give her a different means to the end. She may find memorizing them in Singapore's way easier, and it may "stick" better. Singapore's visuals are part of their teaching methods. It is one of my favorite things about it. There is no twaddle on the page, including pictures. They all help dc visualize the way to get to the answer. Your dd's visual bent may pair nicely with Singapore. It may be worth trying a switch.

You will know what you'd like to try here, but either path would be fine to try. HTH!

In Christ,
Julie

[blessedmama]

Last year my dd, who was 8 at the time, went to do a math drill of about 30 questions, she had done well with these type of problems before but on this particular day she got every single one wrong! I had her correct it and she only got one right. I couldn't believe it. So we took a break from math for a week. The next week we did the same sheet and she got every single one right. She was probably having a bad week with something or was tired, I'm not sure. The reason I say this is that sometimes I think our children get a little burned out in certain subjects and need to take a little break. I don't think it is good to take a break from a subject for a long period of time but sometimes a week to just relax the brain is a good thing.

We have used Singapore before we even started HOD so I do not know any other math curriculum. I have heard many great things about MUS. I think if your child has been working on her facts and is just not able to get a few of them down, it is o.k. Let her use her fingers or blocks, etc., eventually she will get it and won't need to do that anymore. Again, my daughter was stuck on a few facts but when I didn't move her on until she got those facts down she was bored. As long as she has the concept down I would just move on and keep practicing the facts as you go.

Hope that helps.

[mae357]

We're using Singapore and I have NO experience with any other math programs but friends of mine love Teaching Textbooks and The Complete Book of Math.

[Tansy]

I have used both M-U-S and singapore with both programs I had tears with both programs. She struggled for years with Math. I wouldn't sweat the facts right now but move on and do some drill on the side, and let her use the blocks in any problems she's having trouble with.

I noticed My youngest (using singapore) can figure out the problems in her head but she don't Just know the facts. She's in 2A, she wants to be faster with them so I have her using a Multi sensory program I used with her older sister. It takes 7-10 min a day she listens, then she listens and writes the answers, she does flash cards 2x for one min each time. Then she tests her self on previous weeks questions.

I have used the Multiplication and division program with my eldest who has always struggled with math and she just knows her facts now. you ask the question and the answer pops out of her mouth. the program is called Rapid Recall.

the Philosophy behind it is to take away the stress of learning. at no time do you as a parent test the child. the flash cards have the answers on them. they just see it, write it, hear it, over and over Only about 5 facts a week. (or pairs of facts 4+5 and 5+4 are taught at the same time). In fact its something they do by them selves now. I really love the fact that i don't even have to be involved in this process... and no tears!

Edited: spelling/grammar

[jenntracy]

My son is also math and science minded . we were stuck on the -9 lesson in MUS. it seemed like at least 2 weeks of extra worksheets from their sight. He gets very frustrated when he doesn't get things right away. He wasn't wanting to use the blocks, either. I told him it was o.k. to use them and that it would give him a picture of the problem. He has finally got it and is breezing thru lessons 23 and 24.
My daughter is using the Primer this year and i had trouble with the place value (houses) unlike with her brother. i had doubts about MUS for her but i just kept coming back to it as the best. We stuck it out and just moved slowly with those and she can whip out the number really well now. It is better to stay with a lesson longer before moving on. I can testify to this. I would stick with MUS "if it were me" and and just go slow before jumping to a new curriculum.

Jenn D.

[Rwandalove]

Hello, I just wanted to encourage you and say that my son is very advanced in math now, but he did not know his math facts until well into the second grade when he was 8 yrs old. I have found that I had the best results when I just didn't push the issue too much. In first grade, I let him use manipulatives anytime he wanted. Then in second I started having him do a few oral exercises each day. I would circle the ones he missed and have him begin with those the following day. I never did lengthy drills or worksheets for facts in 1st grade. I am a college math instructor so I have a tendency to overanalyze math curriculum. I think that it is very important for them to know the facts, but it is my opinion that some kids just aren't ready when others are. The numbers do not have meaning yet for them and the concept of each number's "value" does not make sense yet. When that clicks, the facts begin to be memorized a lot quicker.

We are using Singapore now with my ds, but my dd is much like yours and began reading (thank you Leapster!) when she was 4. She taught herself just like yours did. She is in K this year. She is not math minded (at least so far) and I have found that she does better with a spiral curriculum. I use McRuffy with her. She really likes it and it is a good combination of manipulatives (for visual learners), games, oral exercises, and workbook exercises. It is so important to me that she enjoys math. People are generally good at things they enjoy (or they enjoy things they are good at...hmmm!) I may try and switch her over to Singapore at some point if I feel that she is ready to move in that direction, but for now a spiral curriculm is best for her.

Whatever you decide, I hope everything works out for you!

[John'smom]

I just wanted to thank everyone for their advice. I know you are all busy wives, mothers, homeschoolers, etc. and it means so much to help me think this through. I really think we're going to take a small break from some of the facts and maybe do telling time right now and play some math games while we're praying about the direction we should go. My dd is naturally so smiley and can always be heard singing songs about Jesus and to see her cry, well, she needs to destress, and to be honest, so do I. I know she will eventually get these down and if the Lord tarries in ten years it'll seem like such a small thing. Thanks for being a blessing to me.