DITHOR question (with 8yro)

[Knittinfarmgirl]

I'm working with our first unit from DITHOR with my 8yro ds. But I'm getting a lot of "I don't know"s as answers to the questions. I was wondering if anyone else had this trouble and if so, did it improve on its own or did you do something that seemed to help?

Thanks!

[annaz]

I ask my dd a bunch of leading questions or maybe "this or that" questions to help her learn to think. I believe at this age, it's learning to do this. I also think it's okay to give an answer every once in a while so they know how I've come to it and what I'm asking for. This way, as lessons progress, they'll get it.

[my3sons]

Annaz gave some good advice already - I agree this is a skill to grow into, and modeling good answers for awhile is a good idea. I wondered how your 8 yo does with his reading in general? When he reads his pages out loud to you for DITHOR, how does he do? Is it pretty smooth, or is he still sounding out/omitting/substituting quite a few words? Also, is there a chance his answering "I don't know" is a bit of a discipline issue, like he doesn't feel like putting in the effort to think about his answers? I had this with one of our dc, so that's why I'm asking. What book is he reading, and how many pages each day? The level of book or pacing could just be off for him too. Is he doing Student workbook 2/3? If you get the chance to answer some of these questions, that would be super!

In Christ,
Julie

[Knittinfarmgirl]

I wondered how your 8 yo does with his reading in general? When he reads his pages out loud to you for DITHOR, how does he do? Is it pretty smooth, or is he still sounding out/omitting/substituting quite a few words? Also, is there a chance his answering "I don't know" is a bit of a discipline issue, like he doesn't feel like putting in the effort to think about his answers? I had this with one of our dc, so that's why I'm asking. What book is he reading, and how many pages each day? The level of book or pacing could just be off for him too. Is he doing Student workbook 2/3?

He is an avid reader. Taught himself to read at 4 and just ran with it. He reads anything and everything he can. Last week, he was enjoying The Secret Garden on his own time.

Reading aloud is something we're working on smoothing out. But it's more maintaining a good volume level and enunciating clearly, not beginning to mumble. Also, he sometimes skips over the "he said", "Oliver asked" parts of the dialogue portions. I think maybe it's that he's reading too fast, so he skims over those words. There's an occasional word he has to sound out, but it'd be something like "circumstantial" as far as difficulty level.

His "I don't know" could definitely be a discipline issue. I think as a result of having skills come so easily to him, that he's gotten into the habit of not putting out the effort. Advice on this issue would be appreciated. We've had quite a bit of resistance and butting heads due to this problem.

He's reading The Mystery of Pelican Cove. About 9 pgs per reading. And yes, he's doing 2/3.

Thanks!

[my3sons]

Thank you for answering my questions! I'm glad your ds enjoys reading and was a strong reader from the start. I have one ds in particular that just took off in his reading at an early age too. While this is exciting, it sometimes can elevate dc's perception of their reading ability. Some dc that take off with their reading quite effortlessly at an early age come to the mistaken conclusion that they have no further progress to make in reading over the upcoming years. This is because they see reading as one dimensional - they have come to believe that to be a good reader, you just need to be able to kite through the words on the page, sound out the really difficult ones properly, and read large volumes of books to be accomplished in the subject of reading.

It helped my ds to really explain that reading is a subject area with a body of knowledge to be learned just as history, science, math, etc. are. I used the HOD books to back me up on this! So, to show how important it was that he properly answer comprehension questions in regard not only to what's happening in the book but also in regard to genres/story elements/Godly character traits, I showed him the "General Daily Format" chart in the front of the DITHOR Teacher's Guide. I didn't read through the entire chart, but rather showed him the column he was in, said the skills he was to be learning for that level, and then showed there were 2 more columns of higher level skills coming, and that to be able to move on to them, he'd need to show success with the column he was in first. The "I don't know" answers he was giving were an indication to me that he was properly placed in the correct level, as this showed he had to work on these skill for awhile. I also pointed out that these were the types of skills he'd be asked to show he had on standardized testing.

...Reading aloud is something we're working on smoothing out. But it's more maintaining a good volume level and enunciating clearly, not beginning to mumble. Also, he sometimes skips over the "he said", "Oliver asked" parts of the dialogue portions. I think maybe it's that he's reading too fast, so he skims over those words. There's an occasional word he has to sound out, but it'd be something like "circumstantial" as far as difficulty level.

To show how important oral reading skills are, I showed him the "Qualities of Good Reading: Student's List" in the Appendix of DITHOR. I explained that the goal was to work through the list one skill at a time until he could do the entire list. I showed him the list at the start of each time he was to read for me in DITHOR, went through the old skills he had shown proficiency for, and showed him which skill he was working on for that day. Until he showed consistent proficiency for each skill, he could not move on to the next. My ds is not a big fan of oral reading, but even though he is in Level 4/5 now, I still follow the DITHOR plans and have him orally read 3-4 pages out loud to me (which comes up in the plans about every other day or so). Being a good oral reader for others is an important skill to have. I explained that Dad has to read instructions or information for this or that in front of others (sometimes one person and sometimes an entire group) for his job. Being a good oral reader is a big part of helping the passing on of this information to be a success. Likewise, there are many other social situations that reading aloud well is needed for - i.e. reading a Bible passage in Sunday School, reading b-day cards aloud at your b-day party, etc. So this is a skill that is something to work on always. It's not something you just stop because you think you've 'mastered' it. It's something that takes continual practice to be good at. I even told him that there were people that got paid for their excellent oral reading skills - i.e. Jim Weiss for the excellent way he reads books on tape, Robert Louis Stevenson for the way he read his poetry, etc. It is an excellent skill to work hard to possess.

In general, with both of our dc who are excellent readers, it helped to explain that these are 2 different skills - reading well independently silently, and reading well out loud orally for others. I explained the comprehension questions were the way we check his progress in thinking about what's happening in the book, while the oral reading is the way we check his progress with the skills that accompany being an accomplished oral reader. Simply working out how to read individual words by sounding them out is a skill as well, and at that point I showed them the "Reading Strategies: Student's List" in the Appendix of DITHOR. But, this is really a lower level skill when it comes to reading. It is the skill set dc are often good at first (and this is often the reason dc think they are wonderful readers that have already learned all there is to learn about reading if they happened to be very good at this at a young age ).

His "I don't know" could definitely be a discipline issue. I think as a result of having skills come so easily to him, that he's gotten into the habit of not putting out the effort. Advice on this issue would be appreciated. We've had quite a bit of resistance and butting heads due to this problem.!

I think just going through the reading standards noted in DITHOR with him will help with his "I don't know" answers. I remember having these talks with my ds and him being quite shocked that he might not be such an advanced reader as he thought he was. I reassured him I was still proud of his reading, but that we still had a long way to go before we covered what we needed to skillwise in reading, and that it would take us years and years of working hard on reading instruction to get there - like through the end of high school. He buckled down and enjoyed working through the lists of skills in the DITHOR guide, as this was a more tangible way to note progress. That doesn't mean he wouldn't try the "I don't know" phrase on me sometimes again though. When he did this, I'd just approach it like maybe it was too hard for him. "Do you think the book I chose for you is too hard, honey? Maybe we need to choose something shorter or read less each day, so you can really understand what's happening in the story. Let's have you read it all out loud to me today, and you can explain what's happening at the end of each page, so I can check your comprehension as you read. Your 'I don't know' answer is a red flag for me that you may need to slow down and have some more help from me." Of course he protested, but I made him read the page explain it in his own words, do another page, etc. for a few pages until he got the picture that 'I don't know' meant more teacher-directed work and less reading for him (not what he wanted ).

I hope something here helps, but I do think with a good sit-down talk, and some encouraging discipline , your ds will begin to realize reading is a bigger deal with more skills than he thought - and I'm betting he's the kind of kid that will want to rise to the challenge.

In Christ,
Julie

[Knittinfarmgirl]

While this is exciting, it sometimes can elevate dc's perception of their reading ability. Some dc that take off with their reading quite effortlessly at an early age come to the mistaken conclusion that they have no further progress to make in reading over the upcoming years.

This is exactly where we are, I believe. I think this is his thought process about things in general. For example, he took piano for a bit over a year. We're in the process of trying to find a house near my dh's new job so we quit lessons until we get settled. He made a comment the other day about wanting to play violin because he already knows how to play piano. I'd bet you're right on target here.

Thank you so much for the suggestions on how to handle this. I will definitely be doing this this week. I did read through the reading aloud student page last week with him to let him know what was expected of him. And that helped improve things a bit. I'm going to do as you suggest and take it 1 skill at a time now. That'll give us both a target to shoot for. And I think I'll be seeing improvements very soon. He's such a strong, smart kid. I know he can do so well once we get past his resistance.

Thanks again!! I'm so glad I could post here and get some wise words from those who've gone before.