Grammar questions for Preparing

[tbarr12]

I am going to begin using Preparing on Monday with my ds 9, and dd almost 11. According to the grammar recommendations, they should be in R&S Grammar 3 and 4 respectively. Last year we did Easy Grammar and, as I look at these books, they have definitely covered the topic in Grammar 3, so I'm considering putting them in 4 and 5, respectively. However, if I went strictly by the recommendations in the catalog, I would put them in 3 and 4, since they technically have not had the lower level R&S (DD did level 3 2 years ago.)

I'm getting the idea that the general advice of HOD veterans is to go with the recommendations! However, just for my own sake, I thought I'd ask - can I safely put them in 4 & 5, or should I strictly stick with the fact that they've technically not done 3 & 4? My fear is of them getting behind, and also of my daughter not having enough writing this year. (I believe 5 adds in more writing).

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!

Tracey

[Mom2Monkeys]

Perhaps they would both fit well in R&S 4?? R&S is quite rigorous. I've looked at, but not used, EG so take this with a grain of salt. I think R&S is ahead of EG, so the level 4 placement for both seems appropriate IMHO. Did they both do the same level of EG last year? What level(s)?

[tbarr12]

I'm bumping this up to the beginning, hoping for more thoughts on it. My kids did almost all of Easy grammar 3/4 last year. It's not so much a question of exposure to the material as how well they learned it. R&S 3, and to some extent 4, would be repetition for them, but I do feel they would learn the material better. Again, my big concern is them being behind grade level. Can someone comment on that? Thanks.

[pjdobro]

I can't really address what level would be best since we're just doing R&S 3 ourselves this year and I'm not familiar with Easy Grammar, but I found this post from Carrie in the stickies on top that talks about grammar:

We've found that we agree with CM in just about all areas, but the delayed introduction of formal grammar is not one of them. We do advocate a gentler very CM-style grammar introduction with Beyond, but then move toward a more formal approach with Rod and Staff after that. Yet, we do not fall in the classical category for grammar instruction, as we advise completing Rod and Staff 6 by the end of grade 8. We feel this plan is the best of both worlds, making sure grammar (for the purpose of writing better) is well-covered, yet not at a pace that will burn-out either student or teacher.

So I don't think your dc would be behind at all if you went with R&S 3 and 4 this year. I'm figuring your dc are 4th and 5th grade. Is that right? Though that might seem behind by some standards to go with level 3 for 4th grade and level 4 for 5th grade, from everything I've read, R&S grammar is pretty intense and well ahead of typical grade level. Carrie just recommends that children finish R&S 6 by eighth grade so you would be well ahead of that.

I think R&S 3 is when it starts to intensify a bit introducing diagramming. Do you still have your R&S3 book? It might really help if you could look it over and see if you feel your younger daughter has covered all of these things. You might try an online search too to see if you could find more info on what is covered in all of the R&S books for placement. I think if after looking that over, you feel that they actually fit in R&S 4 and 5 better, then that is where I would place them. The worst thing that would happen is you would find that it is a little too much and you could back off taking it a bit more slowly or drop down a level. You'll still end up using the books in the future so you would only be out a little bit of time. It's always good to review, but I wouldn't want your dc to be bored with the material either so I would go with what you think is best for them. I hope that might help a little and one of the seasoned veterans can jump in with their advice!

[tbarr12]

Thanks so much for your reply! I was really desperate for someone to give me their input! The only thing I'm not sure about is that I know, starting with CTC, that grammar is taken at 1/2 speed. So if my son (4th grade) does 3rd grade now, then over 5th and 6th grade he'll do 4th, then 7th grade he'll do 5 - at full or half-speed? That's what I don't know. Yes, I still have my R&S 3. I'm leaning towards putting dd in 4, and ds in 3. R&S is a wonderful, intensive program, and I imagine that even at a grade level behind, they may be ahead of what public schools do. But if anyone else knows about the half-speed vs. full-speed thing (i.e., which programs are done at 1/2 and which are done at full), that would be really helpful to me. Thanks again.

Tracey

[pjdobro]

I didn't realize that the grammar slowed down to 1/2 book a year at CTC. I'm guessing that pattern will continue in the later guides, but hopefully someone else will know for sure. You know though, even if it is scheduled at 1/2 pace later on and you feel you need to cover more in order to finish book 6 by the time he finishes 8th grade, you could go full pace later on. I know that might be tough though as the programs seem to get more involved as the years progress. It does seem like it would be easier to start at the higher level now than to try to go at a faster pace than scheduled later on. I think I understand your dilemma more now. Still, like you said R&S is great program and well ahead of typical standards so either way your ds will be far ahead of his ps peers.

[tbarr12]

I agree - I feel fairly comfortable with the fact that, if they learn these things well, they will probably still be ahead. I am still leaning towards doing 4 and 3 with them, respectively. I'm seeing that, when I rush them ahead on things just to keep them at "grade level", sometimes it is to their detriment when they're not getting it - I'm dealing with that right now with my dd in math.

Still, I'd love to hear from someone else about the 1/2 vs. full-pace issue - do the guides pick up with full-pace at any point in the future? But, thanks so much for your input!

Tracey

[Carrie]

Tracey,

I guess with Rod and Staff I tend to recommend using it one grade level behind standardly due to it being such a rigorous program. So, based on that plan a third grader would typically use Level 2 and a fourth grader would typically use Level 3 and so on. Both CTC and RTR schedule grammar at half-speed, to allow for more rigorous writing in addition to that already provided within the grammar, scheduling English 4 and 5.

The next guide in the cycle will likely schedule both full-speed English 5 (doing grammar four times a week) and half-speed English 6 (spreading each lesson out over 2 days to do grammar four times a week as well). The last guide in the cycle will likely schedule full-speed English 6 (doing a full lesson each day 4 days a week for those who need a full-speed schedule) and also schedule the last half of English 6 only (as another option for those who did the first half of 6 in the previous guide, splitting each lesson out over two days). I know that sounds clear as mud, but in reality in provides two options for families to complete English 6 by the end of grade 8.

I hope that helps!

Blessings,
Carrie

[tbarr12]

That is tremendously helpful!!! I've been hoping for an answer from you, Carrie - thank you very much. I had already decided to do R&S 3 with my 4th grader, and R&S 4 with my 5th grader - mainly, as I said, because they missed those levels last year, and I'd rather have them build on a strong foundation. So now I feel better about my decision. Thank you very much.

Tracey

[Carrie]

Glad to help!

Blessings,
Carrie