Lets talk MATH (Bigger) Please???

joyfulheart · Post by **joyfulheart** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 4:16 pm

I have a dyslexic, dysgraphic son who is very behind in math. (entering 3rd grade, mostly 1st grade level in math and reading though)

Word problems literally make him dizzy, and he has to constantly remind himself (wiht a chart we made) what ADD, SUBTRACT, etc... mean.

I bought Bigger, but hesitated to buy the math program with Bigger because it has alot of negative reviews for kids with Learning Disabilities. (but others love it!)

Here's my bad-mother confession. I wanted to do the program listed because it's pointed out for me, page numbers and all. And I'm lazy. And I dont wanna think. Or plan. Or figure it out myself. LOL

But I honestly believe it's not a good "fit" for my son.

I have Math Mammoth already, and It's good, simple, but the layout is different. It is sorted by skill. Addition one section, subtraction one section, multiplication, division, money, measurements, etc.... I'm supposed to print out whatever he needs to work on and go. but I dont KNOW what he needs to work on. Or what order to do it in.

So I'm not sure what to do.

I need easy and simple (for both me and my son!)
And affordable. affordable is important.

The online math programs are probably great, but cannot afford the monthly fees, so that is out.

blessedmomof4 · Post by **blessedmomof4** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 4:24 pm

Hi-I don't have many suggestions for other programs. I can say my 4th grader still needs me to talk her through word problems at times, and the fact that there are only 3 on a page in Singapore seems to help.
I suspect dyslexia with her, because she said the words "jumped" when she was reading...and my oldest brother is dyslexic. I supsect my son is dysgraphic, and I remember such math frustrations with him. If you want to try Singapore, give him the placement test
http://www.singaporemath.com/Placement_Test_s/86.htm
Then, based on where he places, get the Heart of Dakota program (just the manual) that has lessons for that level. You can surely use Bigger for the other subjects-some of the other moms are "melding" programs like this.
I did have some success with my son with a program called Making Math Meaningful from Cornerstone, but I warn you, it takes a lot of teaching time, like 1 1/2 - 2 hours. I would rather have tried Singapore with him at the time, but didn't know about it then.
Just my $.02

water2wine · Post by **water2wine** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 4:28 pm

Can I just say Rod and Staff Math is my best friend. Here is the reason why. Took my kids out of ps and we had huge unbelievable holes. I also have Mammoth Math and it is good for filling in skills. But Rod and Staff is awesome for mastery and really getting the skills. Very simple to use.

Melanie · Post by **Melanie** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 4:33 pm

My niece is dysgraphic and the program that worked absolute wonders for her was Math-U-See. My sis-in-law pulled her out of ps for 2 yrs and caught her up about 5 grade levels and continues to use MUS at home to reinforce her math since she is back in ps now.

The videos, blocks, and constant repetition worked for her.

Math programs are definately not a one-size-fits-all and I don't think Carrie would mind you seeking advice if Singapore isn't working (or you feel it won't).

I hope you do find a good fit!

Mel

blessedmomof4 · Post by **blessedmomof4** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 4:45 pm

Melanie wrote:Math programs are definately not a one-size-fits-all and I don't think Carrie would mind you seeking advice if Singapore isn't working (or you feel it won't).

I hope you do find a good fit!
Mel

Absolutely! Sometimes it takes a little trial and a lot of error, but I hope you find the best fit, too! It does depend on whether your child works best with hands-on learning or pictorial representations, short or long lessons, lots or few problems on a page, lots of repetition or less repetition, etc. We're just all sharing ideas, and hopefully, we'll shorten your search by sharing

By the way-you are a very GOOD mom, which comes through in the fact you are searching for the best for your son

water2wine · Post by **water2wine** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 4:47 pm

I think the ladies that are actually dealing with the same special needs will have the better advice. My child with special needs is not the same as dyslexia and my other kids were just not properly taught in the first place. So I would put more weight on what they say.

Tansy · Post by **Tansy** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 12:20 pm

I use to switch numbers then add or subtract them I always failed in math. My strength is that I see objects, numbers were not objects they were always nebulous.

I have switched my dd from singapore to Math U See. I know it is not inexpensive. I did put myself on a waiting list at a local 2nd hand home school store. 3 weeks later I had a complete set of blocks 29.00$ I had looked at the older cirriculum books but decided to get new My dd an I watch the dvd together and I learn how to present the info to her. She *gets it* from this "tv teacher" which tickles her pink! then we go work on the problems with the blocks as much as we need to.

I always felt rushed with singapore, with MUS you do not move on till the child has mastered the lesson. And they can always use the helpers (blocks) if they get stuck. Its not about memorizing math facts (tho that helps) but mastering math. The web site helps with basic stuff you can print out extra sheets for + - / * but not for the concepts like < > estimating, counting by 2. 5. 10... ect.. I love how he uses Units for ONES and T for TENS so when you say 4T is sounds like forty

My DD place at the beginng of beta And I have struggled with teaching her the value of coins. Demme taught her pennies in one lesson and then dimes in another then nickels took her about 5 min with the "tricks" he told us about in the dvd lesson for her to finally grasp the value.

he doesn't push for the mental math but i have seen how for the past 4 lesson he has been making them add and hold numbers in their head. this is something my child could not do last week. when adding the carried one i had to have her cross out the 2 numbers she added and write down the one she should be holding in her head. but yesterday it clicked. She realized if she says 1+3 is 4 "and" 4 + 3 is 7! it saves her a step and is easier. *bing* she got it! and right in time next lesson is collum addition.

before I made the leap into MUS i tried it out with Cusinare rods they are inexpensive. and have a similar concept. but I wouldn't reccomend that for your son. the colors are different. and if u switched to MUS later it could confuse him.

Its very hard for your child to flip the blocks (objects) like he could flip the numbers. The color reinforces the correct number choice. Say he needs a 9 and he grabs a 6 as soon as he grabs it he will realize his error, and say "hey this is too small and its not the right color."

And here is my personal confession.. Greater than and less than have confused me for over 3 decades. but MUS taught this old dog new tricks and I actually understand them and don't confuse them any more.
being able to see the quanities and understanding the big one always get *eaten* wow its so easy!

also The dvd tells how to teach the concept. and the workbooks have 3 works sheets on the concept then 3 worksheets with review. don't get scared! you have 6 works sheets cause some children need all six! but if your ds gets it right away have him do one worksheet.. then feel free to test the unit and move on to next lesson. this way you don't miss any thing.. and if u see a problem area you could use mammoth math to work on the weak area. MUS is very simple to use you can be like us and have ds sit with you when u watch the dvd.

mom2every1 · Post by **mom2every1** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 1:45 pm

I have others tell me as well who have children with special needs, that Math U See is great. My 5 year old is just starting out and I went ahead and purchased Singapore even though the reviews say that it is better for children without learnign disablilities, but we are doign earlybird 1A - so it is mostly matching, sequencing stuff.

He may end up with Math U See though, or I may look into Rod and Staff and see how it works.

Post by **Carrie** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 2:00 pm

joyful heart,

Sometimes the best math program for our kiddos is one that gets done.

There are many good math programs out there, but the truth is that any program we do steadily is better than the best program in the world which just sits on the shelf.

So, I do think you need to listen to your heart when you say you want a program that is all scheduled out for you day to day. That doesn't mean you have to use Singapore, but for now I would rule out those that don't have a daily schedule. If you have Math Mammoth and it is just sitting on your shelf, than a similar program without a daily schedule may have the same effect at your house.

It's so important to realize how our personal philosophies as a teacher affect what gets done at our house in the day-to-day.

We used Math-U-See for a year with my oldest son, and while Steve Demme is a wonderful presenter with an interesting way of looking at math, I found that we bogged down with the lack of a daily schedule. My son eventually was tired of waiting for me to watch the video in order to present the lesson to him. Or, if he watched the video with me, I still had to figure out how much to do each day and how much review was needed before moving on (and when to add in the word problems and how many, etc. etc.). While some moms thrive on that flexibility, it had us grinding to a halt!

You may just want to consider giving the Singapore placement test to see where your kiddo places. Then look at the first week of plans in the corresponding guide of ours to see what the lessons would be like. And ask yourself what kind of a program do you need, so that from a teaching perspective math gets done daily? This was a question I needed to ask myself, as we added more kiddos to our school day, and my teaching time was at a premium!

Blessings,
Carrie

water2wine · Post by **water2wine** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 5:02 pm

Carrie wrote: Sometimes the best math program for our kiddos is one that gets done. There are many good math programs out there, but the truth is that any program we do steadily is better than the best program in the world which just sits on the shelf.

That is the quote of the day. So very true.