I need advice, ds does not like school

[Kathleen]

Hey, one more thing I just thought of...

We're not big "by-the-clocker's" here. We don't watch it, but rather go with the flow of our routine once we're into it. We start the year with a timer (for Grant), and then only pull it back out if he needs that accountability to keep moving again through the year.

[kiloyd]

Thank you all for your great replies! I knew you all would help me.

You're right about the habit forming, because *I* get distracted by the computer. It really helps ds if I am not on the phone and not on the computer. It was also hard for him when he would see his sisters playing. I would usually send them upstairs to play or occasionally if needed I'd let them watch TV in my room. This next year dd 5, will be doing school too, well she did a little this year, but not much.

I would LOVE to be finished with our school day by lunch! I think you are right, I need to crack down on myself and him and keep us on track. There is one thing I didn't mention though, I babysit 3 days a week and will need to stop to put her down for a nap around 11:00 and we like to eat lunch at 11:30. Maybe I could save two more fun things for after lunch.

I needed to hear a lot of what you all told me. I like the homework box idea. I often tell him that he will not waste my time. I agree that if I set it up like a job and explain it to him in the beginning, we might have a tough couple of weeks but then he will see how his afternoons are free. It's me forming my own habits as much as his.

I will look for a conference nearby, I'm in NH. I did recently find two hs groups, one is mostly unschoolers and the other is a mix, I'm meeting new moms and will get some advice from some of them too.

I like the idea of taking breaks too. Our problem is that we end up taking breaks when relatives visit so then we don't really get a break just by ourselves. We live far away so they stay for 5 days once or twice a year. I really think i do not give him (and me) enough breaks, he was pretty burnt out in Feb/Mar. and again in June

I'm going to re-read the posts

[kiloyd]

I just re-read all the posts. Thank you!

I do enjoy hsing and love the things we get to do. He is a smart boy, and yes I think this is more of a battle of the wills and needing to form habits. I myself really need to work on MY habits.

My3sons, thank you for your advice. I have never written up a time schedule, but that may really help him. i could at least try it for 2 weeks and see how it goes.

And yes, we need a more consistent break schedule too. I push him too hard sometimes.

LoraBeth, I like the reward idea. We kind of tried it two years ago but it didn't work well. I will re-evaluate. I'm thinking 4 weeks of focused work and maybe 3 days off and one of those days we go do something really fun like Monkey Joes (never been yet) or Chucky E Cheese or the beach in the fall or spring.

You ladies are great! I know that ps is not the answer, it's like a default for me , I think "well, I'm having a hard time, I'll just send him off for someone else to do it". but you are right, I'd still have an hour of homework to help him with and then he wouldn't get to do sports and other fun stuff we do. The answer is prayer and focusing on a routine and for me to stick to the routine and keep myself focused. And to hold fast to the rule of no TV, DS, or computer until school is finished. I would love to work hard all morning and be done by 1:00.

Thank you for the prayers.

[psreit]

You've had a lot of great advice, so I'm not going to really add anything. I just wanted to say that I've been there with our youngest who was adopted. So, it's not exactly the same scenario. She definitely has some struggles with some things, so she would get frustrated and refuse to do work. To make a long story short, I ended up putting her in our Christian school for K. Some positive things came out of it, but, no, letting someone else do the teaching is not the answer. Even in the Christian school, I didn't feel the teacher addressed all of dd's needs, or she didn't view them in the same way I did. I've learned a lot since putting her in school and it has given me more determination to make this work. I wish I would have been as wise when our 3 oldest were young. Prayer is definitely needed. Having this group to give input is always encouraging. I have been impelled to order the book, A Charlotte Mason Companion. It sounds like it would be a great help. Don't give up

[annaz]

So I'm back from my lurking post. My dd is the same exact way. I battle several things. One was whether the material on level, was she bored, or was it too difficult. Then I went the route of giving her some input. With that said, then I ended up going the route of giving too much child input. You have to find the happy medium. I'm still working on it, but it's getting better. I give dd boundaries. You must do your work or you can sit all day doing nothing. It is your job. Daddy has a job, Mommy has a job, this is your job. We will go over certain things that we are keeping or doing curriculum wise that there is no input. But I will take a couple subjects and say, "this or this". Meaning I have chose these two and she can pick out of these two which to start first. It sort of gives them control without you losing yours. Sometimes I'll let dd choose the schedule too. "What would you like to do first today, this or this?". Some days I can't let dd choose, as I want to complete what I feel needs to be completed before we go somewhere. I'll also do little bonus type things; dd gets all the math correct on one page, she doesn't have to do the back of the page. This year, I'm opting for 100% work. I'll give her incentives to get her math or seatwork correct.

My dd still doesn't like school, but if she knows she has some say within my boundaries then it seems to go smoother. I find that I can be somewhat controlling, all in love of course and I go overboard. But it is a job and she still has to do it or she gets Daddy the principal. And that she doesn't like.

[kiloyd]

I told Michael that his job is school and he said "then I quit". LOL! smarty pants.

We are done with school except for cursive. He had 8 cursive words to write and he said "I don't want to". I said "I didn't ask you, sit here, you may get up when they are done".

He sat there for maybe 10 min. and finally did them.

I think if I have him sit at the desk or kitchen table and stay there until the work is done, he will eventually learn it's better to do it rather than sit there for an hour and be bored. I was sending him to his room and he would read or play. I think probably needs to be a bit more boring.

Katherine

[psreit]

My dd(7) will respond like that sometimes. It's usually because it's hard and she doesn't want to try. I think she likes school work if it's 'easy'. I have learned the best way with her is to tell her what needs to be done and then leave her alone. If it is something she knows how to do, she will do it. But, there needs to be consequences if she continues to refuse. If it is something she struggles with, I need to work one on one with her some more until she gets it. Our biggest problem is writing. She gets very frustrated if it's not done right and then will refuse to try again. I just had that happen yesterday. I have learned not to give in, even if it takes a long time.

[annaz]

I told Michael that his job is school and he said "then I quit". LOL! smarty pants.

We are done with school except for cursive. He had 8 cursive words to write and he said "I don't want to". I said "I didn't ask you, sit here, you may get up when they are done".

He sat there for maybe 10 min. and finally did them.

I think if I have him sit at the desk or kitchen table and stay there until the work is done, he will eventually learn it's better to do it rather than sit there for an hour and be bored. I was sending him to his room and he would read or play. I think probably needs to be a bit more boring.

Katherine

Been there with that response too. Your other response is good and he did do them. He just needs to know it's not an option. You just have to be consistent. My dd hates to sit in a chair doing nothing. (sneaky laugh)....but it works.When dd was little, I had a halloween mask that I'd call the scary teacher. It sort of wigged her out. But I never had to use it, just pull it out. It would work for a 9 year old but it worked when she was 6. We have Daddy step in and ask dd how she did at night. DD despised it when Daddy found out she didn't do what she was supposed to. The old "wait till Daddy gets home" sort of thing. You did good....just keep it up. I think I'd have ignored (not engaged) in your ds's first response of I quit.

[my3sons]

I think it can be difficult to maintain the balance of the expectation of good work and the joy of learning in homeschooling. This is a wonderful Charlotte Mason quote that has helped me consider this balance and how to go about trying to keep it in our home:

"Therefore we are limited to three educational instruments - the atmosphere of environment, the discipline of habit, and the presentation of living ideas." (Vol. 1, Preface)

My previous posts have focused on the discipline of habit, but I was remiss in failing to mention the other 2 elements as well. The atmosphere of environment is something we have so much control over as mothers homeschooling in our homes. Creating an atmosphere that is alive with expectation of good work, full of deep love and encouragement, and complete with joy of learning is a tall order, but one worth striving for each day. Striving to have a close and loving relationship with each of my dc is one of my best aids to try to maintain the balance of a CM style school. I've found when I haven't spent real time "knowing" and "loving" my dc that our relationships get off, and it makes our school days get off too. I have to continually remind myself to show them how much they mean to me, how much I love them. Telling them what they are doing right, laughing with them, listening to their stories with my full attention, making plans with them for us to do some special things together, praying with them personally, letting them know they are my favorite people to be around, all go a long way to create the atmosphere I want in our home. It is impossible to do all of these things all of the time, but when I sense we're shifting away from a "learning is a joyful thing" / "we're in this together" /"I'm on your side here" type thinking to "just get it done" / "I've got more important things to do without you" type thinking, then taking time to work on my relationship with a certain child does wonders for the way they approach their schooling, as it directly affects our atmosphere of learning.

Likewise, the presentation of living ideas is another facet of CM style learning. I always think it interesting CM said "presentation" of living ideas. That has made me realize that the living books, living ideas, etc. that HOD provides still hinge on my "presentation" of them. CM talked a lot about "listening attentively with our eyes and our ears" to our dc, and showing interest and animation on our faces as we do our school together. This is powerful stuff! I have found that my habits of listening (or lack thereof) really does directly affect my dc's response to something they must do. If they can tell I am truly interested in the books we are reading, truly passionate about the Godly character trait discussion we are having, truly enjoying doing the activity alongside them, truly glad to be doing school with them - they usually are too! Likewise if I am in an "eeyore" mood, down in the doldrums, distracted, or just somewhat rude - no surprise, they are too. It is not possible to have a perfect attitude all of the time for anyone, but I have found that this attitude of joy and anticipation as I present living ideas and this atmosphere of learning and love are as much habits to be formed for me as for them, and just like the habit of good work, they can be honed and fine-tuned to be such habits of second-nature that many of our days can naturally be filled with them.

It seems that each of these 3 things is key in our homeschooling, and that fixing one without maintaining the other two is just a short-term fix at best. Like a 3-legged stool missing one leg or short on one leg or long on another leg- the balance is simply off, and it is impossible to enjoy it as it was intended to be enjoyed. So, as we all use CM's wise words to ponder the balance of atmosphere of environment, the discipline of habit, and the presentation of living ideas in our homes, I pray the Lord will continue to help us on a daily basis to know what needs to be done - so our dc get the most out of not only school, but life!

In Christ,
Julie

[kiloyd]

Julie, thank you so much for your wise words!

I have not had a good attitude toward school and lean toward the 'get it done" attitude. I will ponder your words. This leads me back to my own selfishness and that I must stay focused on my children and then I can have my phone and computer time.

Thank you again!

[birchbark]

I must say this has been a most helpful thread!

I have come to realize this past year that a good education will involve both the joy of learning and the discipline of learning (just like Julie mentioned). School must contain both content (information) and skill-building, and one of the reasons I feel HoD is set apart from the rest of the lit-based curricula is that it really focuses on both. Building skills will always require some discipline, and it is natural for children to dislike that part of school. I know it is tempting to feel like you're a meanie or wonder why your kids don't love every part of their schoolday the way some proponents of various educational philosophies may lead you to believe! (Incidently, CM recognized that there were both inspirational subjects and disciplinary ones.)

Learning to do something when they don't feel like doing it is one of the most valuable real-life skills we can pass on to our kids. I love Julie's analogy of school being like our kids' "job."

HoD is really very doable with its shorter lessons and interesting books! Kids love activites too so there is a lot to like!

I like Kay's suggestion of trying standing while doing school. Another idea I've heard for wiggly kids is to have them sit (bounce ) on one of those big exercise balls instead of a chair. You could also try having them go outside and run around the house three times between their boxes. My DS always likes when I suggest this.

[lmercon]

Great post, Birchbark!

[lovetobehome]

Thank you, thank you, thank you for this! I have not been on the board in some time, I have been really in a slump with my children, my attitudes toward parenting and schooling....etc. By the grace of God, things are steadily improving! Julie, your post is very, VERY helpful! I took notes, and plan to make some notecards to put up in the house to encourage myself with these reminders. *MY* attitude has become so very negative toward my children and homeschooling, and I hit rock bottom and am climbing back up, thank God He always sends a lifeline to pull us up!
I am so encouraged. Thanks to you all for your honesty and time....I hope to share more on the boards soon, but I have taken trips to Williamsburg, MD, Louisiana, a monastery in PA, and am heading out tomorrow for a couple weeks traveling down south through VA and TN to be with my 4 siblings. I also have drastically reduced my computer time lately, giving me more time to work out my issues with my children and read a ton of parenting books and Bible study. I have to go pack the car, but THANK YOU all. I am soooo encouraged, this is just what I needed. I love you all, and I love HOD!

[meandmycuties]

I think all homeschool mom deal with that on some level at certain times. I've had my kids tell me they aren't going to do something and it doesn't change their assignment. I have to be firm and tell them that sometimes school isn't fun but we have to do it anyway. You can do things to try to make it more fun but I would not let him pick what/when he's going to do. You are the mom, YOUR rules. Period.