Classical Conversations & HOD - who does both?

[Tabitha]

We are considering doing a co-op this year. I've never done one. Just right around the corner, about 3 miles away, is a Classical Conversations co-op. I am just learning about them.

For the fall I will have an 11yo (6th) in CTC, an 8 yo (3rd) in Bigger, and a 5 yo (K) in Little Hands.

Classical Conversations will be in their Cycle 2, which is Pre-Reformation World through Today.

My oldest is the only one who'd do Essentials, if I go with the CC co-op. Then all 3 would also do Foundations.

How intense is this to think of mixing it alongside all the HOD curriculums? Is it doable? The time period would certainly be off for the history cycles.

For the oldest, I could atleast sub her HOD writing program for the CC (IEW) one.

It's that time for us to look for a co-op. The girls need to be around other kids more. Our little bible study group (mainly made up of homeschoolers) mostly contains boy children. They are wanting to find more girls, and mommy is also wanting a little bit of a break. Getting us out of the house some and socializing more would be a big plus. Plus, having them listen to someone else other than mom all the times is something they need as well.

Just trying to figure out how much CC can take over, or if it's a doable supplement or if it really needs to be done on it's own delving into those resources, etc. And, if you don't recommend CC at all, please do speak up. I need to hear it all from both sides.

I am planning my HOD curriculum order right now, and getting some input here would greatly help in my ordering decisions.

Thanks!

[Mom2Monkeys]

My friends who do CC say you just don't have time for your own core curriculum. If you want to add a couple extras, then you can, but it's a stretch for them to do so. It's very time consuming and CC is their curriculum now. I think it would over shadow all things HOD and you'd feel too stretched thin to add in HOD after doing all the CC stuff. That's just me and my group...but I hear it a lot!

There are lots of other types of homeschool classes. You could look into your local 4-H. Ours has a program called SEEK. It's a science "class" for homeschoolers, our local state parks have weekly homeschool classes, some of the churches have weekly classes as well...none of which require homework or for you to teach anything. There are nature centers with Wildlife and Fish & Game that have lots of weekly classes and such as well. Our Libraries have started a weekly homeschool meeting as well. Some sort of book club. There should be plenty of things out there. Oh, and if you find a local "social" homeschool group , you might find it to fit your needs. I'm the admin of just such a group and we have nature study meeting, park days and picnics, field trips, zoo trips, family cook outs, family movie nights, swimming trips, mom's night out, and we're considering starting a Keepers Club (Keepers and Contenders of the Faith). So much to do! I hope you can find just the right fit, either with CC or other options. If you look hard, you may find there are way more options that you first thought...that's what I learned after months of boredom!

[Shawneinfl]

Tabitha,
I am a Foundations Director in FL for CC and have been for the last three years. Classical Conversations has been a wonderful addition to our homeschool. I have seen the participation done several different ways. Some families choose to use it as the basis for their homeschool curriculum and only add math/reading and go more in depth with CC's science and history at home. Other families use it strictly as a weekly co-op and don't do much follow-up with the memory work at home. Most families, however, are somewhere in the middle - still using another curriculum at home and spending about a half hour per day on the memory work and presentation prep. That is how my family does it. That being said, if you are doing Essentials with your oldest, that would suffice as your grammar/writing program. To add another English program to Essentials would be overkill.

Classical Conversations is a terrific support community but I would definitely check out your local group to see if it is a good fit for your family. Each community has it's own personality even though we all follow the same guide and our classes are set up similarly.

I think it fits well with HOD. In fact if your oldest could do RtR next year it would line up perfectly with CC's Cycle 2 - even down to the same IEW book being used in Essentials.

[brenm37]

Tabitha,
I have done CC and HOD at the same time. We did both last year for Cycle 1. We also did just CC the year before for Cycle 3. CC can be used as little or as much as you want - it is up to you. For Cycle 3, I dropped what I was doing and just used the CC stuff (I had a pre-Ker, a 2nd grader and 4th grader that year). Last year, I had decided to use HOD Preparing and we also did Cycle 1. We completed HOD, but did not do much extra with CC (I had a Ker, 3rd grader and 5th grader last year). I love CC's geography and the science experiments and presentations each week. The other stuff we got tired of and I didn't push any of it, the girls did what they wanted with it. We had several families that did a lot of the CC memory work and used other curriculum along with it - mostly for 3rd or 4th graders and above though. We never did Essentials, so I can't comment on that. We will not be returning for Cycle 2, but only because I want my 5 days back - we will try other things this year. I think CC is a pretty good program, but can be plenty in itself for the 3rd grade crowd and under.
Brenda

[sw1ssm1ss]

We did both this past year. I really like the idea of CC for the older grades--the Challenge program. And I thought that CC would check off a lot of boxes for us, if you will. I was looking for, let's see, accountability, socialization, memorization, hands-on science, music, and art. I got all of that, and I am satisfied. I felt a great sense of accomplishment at the end of the year celebration. But I am also tired.

To be fair, this year has been exhausting on many different levels. When I started CC, I had a 5 year old, an almost 3 year old, and a 3 month old. I was working about 20 hours a week as a tutor. It was my first year homeschooling. I'm not kidding, just getting myself and my kids from the parking lot to the classroom of CC felt like an endeavor, because I had to carry the baby, the cooler, and the diaper bags, while still making sure my 3 year old actually went into the building. So this probably wasn't the best year for me/us to do CC.

Also, I knew at the beginning of the year that I was picking two curricula--HOD and CC. I knew that would mean 194 days of school to finish kindergarten. I think I sort of forgot that a bit in the middle of the year and that it made it hard to focus on HoD and use it to the fullest, if that makes sense. Also, I started LHFHG in August, and we will probably finish in July.

If I were in your shoes, though, I would really consider it! Like I said, socialization, memorization, art, music...! I think it can accompany HOD fine. Sometimes, certain things even overlapped, which was nice. For instance, the timeline cards cover the history of the world, so that should touch on aspects of each child's curriculum.

I don't know how much you go in the car, but that was when my daughter and I really "did" CC. I got the audio memory work CD. Well worth the money, because it made the whole thing do-able for us. We would listen to the week's memory work, and I would stop the CD and have her repeat it. There are some thing you can't really do with the CD. The CD doesn't cover the Bible memory portion or the timeline cards. The CD does say the geography names, but without a map in front of you, I don't know how helpful that is.

Anyway, even if you don't go in the car too much, you could have them listen to the memory work on the CD each day during breakfast or lunch. I think, like several people said, CC can be as much as you want or not so much, but for me even a little bit was too much.

[jenntracy]

I have heard that CC can be an intense co-op from those here in my area. Some really like it and some it is just not for them.
From what i have heard, it seems that if you were to do HOD, you would either have to slow HOD down to get everything out of it or, like some moms have said already, they didn't do all of the stuff from CC.

I do know CC is not something that would fit our family. To me it just didn't fit all that I wanted to do with HOD and how we want to learn. I also felt it would be to intense for me and my family. Mine are also younger . Last thing i need is more stress. But i know it has worked very well for some families. I really think it is great for families or totally not. That is just from what i have heard from those who have participated in my area.

My other issue is the cost. Can't afford to do both. Actually don't think i could afford CC alone.
The kind of co-op our family would like is very laid back so that we can just meet and establish good friends in the homeschooling community without so much work. More fun with a little learning ...
That is just our family though.

My 2 cents
Jenn D.

[Shawneinfl]

I usually don't encourage moms whose oldest child is only four or five to do CC, especially if they have babies and toddlers in tow. It can be a recipe for burnout. However, if they have older children it is a great way to keep on track, keep moving forward and have a sense of accomplishment at the end of the year. I know that in CC I will have actually done 24 science experiments, had my child speak in front of a group 24 times and covered art and music. All those things are so easy to skip when you're really busy with a young family.

When I looked at HOD, I saw all the great hands on projects and memorization and thought that it would make preparing three kids for oral presentations sooo much easier because we already have that right in our schedule. The weekly presentations was what drew me to CC when I first joined because I feel public speaking is such an important skill. It's a joy to watch children who can barely stand up front without their moms at the beginning of the year blossom and come out of their shell over the 24 weeks.

One of the great things about CC is that once a day our whole family gets together to work on the timeline and memory work, or, if we're too busy, we can listen to the audio in the car or they can go over it on the computer.

HTH

[Tabitha]

Thank you for the replies/input.

I hadn't thought of skipping CTC and putting the oldest in RTR. That might work well.

For the 8yo, I was worried that Bigger would be too much. I think she can handle it, but her spelling is below grade level. If I help Bigger off for a year, next year that would fit in with the CC Cycle 3.

Then I guess it would be a matter of not doing CTC or picking that back up on a CC Cycle 1. That would make my oldest 13 doing CTC with extensions, I guess...pending what all follows RTR.

There is another smaller co-op that would just be $25/mo for my family of 3 girls. There aren't that many classes being offered. Info is being sent to me on that co-op as well, it just hasn't arrived yet. But you have to have kids in all three class times that they offer. And if there is something you don't like/child doesn't like, you'd have no choice but to put them in it. That is what I didn't like about it.

It's a lot to think about, and dh isn't helping me any. I told him the CC cost and his reply is that it is cheaper than a private school and that we need to get out, and me get a break. I'm not having any arguments from him at all. He lets me spend what we need in this arena. Yes, it's nice, but it doesn't help me in the decision making area.

We use TT for our math, and BJU for English. I need to make sure I like the English they'd be using. The writing program would be fine. I wasn't thinking my dd would take too well to the WWTB in CTC anyway (if we did CTC).

[my3sons]

I think one of the most difficult things about CC is that it is tempting to choose a core HOD curriculum (or any other kind of curriculum for that matter) solely based on the history time period being studied. The placement chart HOD has is the best way to place dc in HOD, and it is a much better way to go about it than just picking whatever happens to match the CC time period being studied. CC also has a different philosophy than HOD has, with memorization being a key component. From talking with many ladies at book fairs who used both CC and HOD last year, it seemed like something had to give. Either they did CC in a more low key way and did HOD well, or HOD was not getting done well and CC was pretty much all that got done. Of course this is the HOD Board, and I use HOD, so it makes me very sad to think of anything standing in the way of HOD getting done consistently, as I believe it is a full, academically sound program on its own merit.

I think it is important to know your goals as you make decisions such as these. Add-ons often become substitutions in the long run as we're stretched too thin, so it's important to know your goals and try to stick to them. For our family, one of our primary goals is for me to be the teacher of our dc. I also want a CM style education for our dc, which focuses on living books, balance, and Christ being at the center. Time is another consideration for us. We want our dc to be done with school near lunch time or shortly thereafter, so they have ample free time. CM advocated that "even 6 hours of time spent outside" would not be too much for dc each day. We have found just as much learning takes place during these hours as during "school" time! So, being somewhere else an entire day, with someone else teaching, with a focus being on memorization, and with time being added to lengthen our day doesn't fit well with our family's goals. I know that our goals are not everyone else's goals. So, can CC be used with HOD? Probably - if that fits your goals, if you can be alright accurately placing your dc in HOD regardless if it matches CC's time period being studied, and if you can still happily and consistently get HOD done in the day to day. Then, yes, it would work fine! But if you're placing dc in HOD in guides that don't fit your dc's true placement, and if you are going to be dropping things from HOD to do CC, than I would say not to do it. Prayer is a huge help in making decisions such as these, and you are wise to put time and thought into this decision as it will greatly affect your year overall. HTH as you consider your family's goals!

In Christ,
Julie

[Carrie]

Ladies,

I am going to close this particular thread on the board per the board rules below:

This is the only "official" Heart of Dakota" board moderated by us. Since this board is sponsored by Heart of Dakota, we ask that you do not post links to other companies or other boards, promote other boards or groups, reference posts or threads from other boards, or post for the purpose of promoting a product that is not scheduled within the HOD guides.

The goal of the HOD board is not to help you use another curriculum or program in addition to HOD but rather to use HOD as your curriculum. While I know there are moms who use both HOD and Classical Conversations, it is not our intent that anything need be added to HOD outside of your own family's specific interests you would like to explore. We give you the 5th day of each week in our guides from Preparing Hearts on up in order to use as desired to customize HOD to fit your family.

I will say that after visiting with many, many moms at our conventions this past year who have tried doing Classical Conversations along with HOD, most have discovered that the two programs are much too full to do at the same time (and one or the other of the programs was not used to its fullest in order to allow time to complete the other). Several moms shared that they dropped all history related and science materials in order to do Classical Conversations and others shared that they used HOD mainly for the Bible/character portion which was not as strong in Classical Conversations as it is in HOD. Others shared that they were planning to take time off from HOD for a year to do Classical Conversations, in order to better match the history rotation of HOD to Classical Conversations the following year. It's important to note that when doing any of these options, the flow of the HOD guide is lost, children miss out on important key skills needed for the next HOD guide in line, and placement by a child's developmental standards falls by the wayside in order to better line up with a different program's history cycle. Each of these options also uses HOD as supplement, rather than as the core program, meaning you won't fully reap the benefits of using HOD. One HOD guide is meant to prepare children well for the next guide in line, both spiritually and academically. Yet, you won't fully realize that goal when dabbling in HOD.

It is also important to note that within HOD we include 35 science experiments in each of our guides from Preparing Hearts on up and 68 science experiment-type lessons in each of our guides from Bigger on down. This means there is no need to use another program to do experiments! We include 35 projects (lasting 3 days each) in our guides from Preparing on up and include daily hands-on activities in our guides from Bigger on down. We include drawing in all of our programs, with guided instructions in Preparing on up, which means you do not have to pursue this area outside of HOD unless desired. We include timeline work in every guide that corresponds directly to what students are studying with HOD. We also include creation of a portfolio or notebook as well (in Bigger on up). Music is included in every guide, relating directly to the Scriptures children are memorizing and applying to their lives weekly. I could go on, but you understand that I'm saying each HOD guide is a very full program in itself!

If you feel that the Lord is leading you to Classical Conversations, then by all means you should do that. However, I wouldn't try to tack HOD on top of it! The same is true if the Lord is leading you to HOD. One thing to ponder as you look at Classical Conversations (or any other curriculum) is how much emphasis on knowing the Lord and study of Scripture is found within the classes or the coursework? What resources are used in each area and do the accompanying plans bring out the Lord at the center of the studies? How much are you allowed choice of resources and placement based on customizing the program to meet your specific child's needs? Who has the responsibility of teaching your children, determining your schedule, and selecting your curriculum? How much emphasis is there on a child's habits, character, heart, and relationship with the Lord? These are good questions to ponder no matter which curriculum you use!

It is my understanding (from what others have shared with me) that these areas are not the primary focus of CC. It appears rather that the focus is on the classical model of education and on academics to that end. Whether this is true or not, it is wise to know and thoroughly research any option you are considering for your family. Our family's two top goals are to saturate our children's education in the Word of God and to focus on training our children's habits, character, and hearts so they can serve the Lord with their lives. Academics are also very important to us but fall within the framework of our top two goals. With that in mind, we find our HOD guides to be the fit we are seeking for our family.

In determining what is best for our family, I found it so helpful for my husband and I to write down a short list of general goals (approx. 10 or so) that we have for our children's home education. Once we had this list in hand, it was easy for us to see which books, opportunities, and curriculum best met our goals. It made it easier for us to select and narrow down our choices based on our goals. I refer to the list often as it helps me keep my compass pointing in the right direction for our family.

I'd encourage you to start with your goals, bathe them in prayer, and then choose what the Lord reveals to you as His plan for your family. I realize this may look different for each family, so only you will know what the Lord's best is for your situation.

Blessings,
Carrie