Dissapointed with history book...???

[cocomimilily]

Hi, I recently rec'd my books for Little and Bigger...I have been so excited about HOD... However, last night I started reading through some of the history books and was very dissapointed with some of the things I read. Particularly, in the history book "A Child's Story of America", I felt that there was a lot of content inappropriate for this age group. Toward the end of the book the author discusses President Clinton's immoral sexual acts while in office, homosexuals and abortions on several occasions. While this may be true information... is it really necessary for a 4-6th grader to have this information? What benefit does this have to our children? I haven't read through the whole book but just flipping through it I found this...what else is in there that may be inappropriate? This is a book my DD will be reading independently in 4th grade??? She doesn't even know what immoral sexual acts are.
My other concern is regarding the Eggleston books. I am so excited about these...but as I was just glancing through these I read what he wrote about Columbus. He states that Columbus was kind to the Indians.??? According to what I have studied of Columbus and his men they were quite the opposite of kind- often very brutal and mistreated the natives horribly. Eggleston makes it sound as if the Natives went willingly to Spain, when, in my understanding, they were taken there as captives.
Please don't misunderstand me. I am not trying to be negative but I am leery of making individuals in history out to be heroes or Godly people when in actuality they weren't. I think it benefits our children much more when they know the strengths and weaknesses of those who have gone before us.
Of course, they don't need all of the details at this young age, but to say the Columbus treated the natives kindly by giving them trinkets and beads seems like a gross misrepresentation of history. Am I missing something? Maybe what I have read was incorrect.
I want to feel that I can trust what the author is saying if this is the main text I will be using for history. Are there other things in the book that I will find as we get into it?
Can someone please put my fears to rest
Thanks so much for taking time to help me with this. I was really looking forward to using HOD this year and have been telling everyone I know about it. After what I read last night though,I am feeling a little uncomfortable and that I may need to read through everything first.
Beth

[countrymom]

Here is a link to a previous post with responses from Carrie and another link. There are portions of "A Child's History of America" that are not used.
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5467&p=40090&hilit= ... ica#p40090

[momofgreatones]

Some people do object to the parts you mentioned from the Child's History book. We have this book also, and my 10 yo dd has been reading it this year with Bigger. We really like the book, and I pre-read it before giving it to her. I can see why some people object to these parts, for us they aren't a problem. Because we have teenaged dd's, there is often discussion going on around here about things like that, so my younger dd is accustomed to these topics. However, you'll be comforted to know that there isn't anywhere else in the book where anything like that is mentioned, and also that the pages in question are not scheduled in the extension reading schedule, they are skipped or listed as optional.

As far as the Eggleston book, I think it's a matter of the issues being complex. Topics like the way the white men and the Indians treated each other are complex and I think dc benefit from having some maturity and age under their belts when they study these topics in-depth. I think the purpose of the Eggleston books is to provide inspirational biographies for young children at this age. I think it would confuse my dc at this age if it dwelled on the negative as well as the positive with Columbus and others, as children in this age group tend to see things in black and white. When these books were written, it was well accepted that Columbus was a heroic man who had faith in God. He was a flawed human being however, and in our times there is now plenty of material that focuses on his mistakes and shortcomings. I know he wasn't perfect, but since I believe he was a man called and inspired by God, followed His leading in faith, and was instrumental in establishing the New World for God's purposes, for our family the Eggleston books are a great fit. At this point I want my dc to build a strong foundation in providential history, and later they can study the complexities, strengths, and faults of Columbus, the Founding Fathers, etc. God uses imperfect people to carry out his work, because that is all he has to work with. I don't know if any of this helps you or not, this is just my take on things.

So I guess it comes down to what your philosophy is and what books you feel are going to help you the most in teaching your family what you want them to know. I know it can be hard finding the right fit, best of luck to you in your decision!

[MamaPajama]

I have to admit, I would be a little leery of a book like that too. After reading this post I read the reviews of the book on Amazon and some of the buyers felt it was poltically biased. While I consider myself to have conservative Christian morals, I'm not into politics and I definitely don't like the idea of a book trying to sway my children's political opinions or sugar coat historical events.

Has Carrie given any alternative book to use in its place? I looked through the other thread, but didn't see any others mentioned.

[cocomimilily]

Thank you so much for responding...
momofgreatones- I appreciate your take on the matter and letting me know that part of the Child's History book is skipped. I know that I can easily skip it myself but I guess I like knowing that I am on the same page as HOD and their philosophy. I used Sonlight before and there was so much I had to skip because we just didn't share the same goals and there were often things that just made me uncomfortable sharing with my children. I felt like I had finally found a curriculum that matched our family when I found HOD and was feeling very discouraged last night. I also appreciated your input regarding the complexity of it all... this is so true and I need to keep this in mind. That was so helpful- sometimes I get too fixated on something! Honestly, many times I feel that I am learning right along side my children. However, I want to be comfortable with the books I've chosen and that events or people in history are not misrepresented therein.

Mamapajama-Thanks for responding too- From what I have read the book does seem very politically biased which makes me uncomfortable. I don't know of any replacement books that are recommended.

Thanks for the link countrymom!
I would love to hear from anyone else on this?? Can anyone else share their experiences?
I appreciate you all so much! What an invaluable resource you all are!
In Him,
Beth

[jenntracy]

I would love to hear more about this and possibly replacement book. Why was the Eggleston book chosen?
We are not there yet (Beyond next year is the highest level) but i too feel like i am learning along with my kids. I just never got history in school. i blame the way it was taught. anyhow, i don't want anything biased or misrepresented , either.
Very good discussion here.

Jenn

[lmercon]

I would love to comment here, but I just don't have the time right now. I'll leave this old post for you to read through. You may find it helpful. I'll be back later to give my thoughts as we are finishing up Bigger this month.
Laura

viewtopic.php?p=46098#p46098

[jenntracy]

Thanks imercom and countrymom for those posts. That clears up a lot of questions i had and think i can comfortably use those history books.
I really want a "living book" , not a text. i mentioned earlier that i really don't remember any history. probably for the reasons Carrie stated in the post Imercon linked to.
The Lord is reminding me, too, that when things seem to be going the right way, Satan likes to throw in doubt. God will give me discerment to know what i should skip if inappropriate and wisdom if something is bias. We already have to do this with things that happen in life that aren't related to "books".

[smithdonnajo]

I have a Christian friend, in my local homeschool moms group, who I consider as one "older and wiser". She is in her mid 50's, has 7 children, 3 currently at home- jr. high and high school age. She has homeschooled all of them with CM methods and "better late than early" philosophy. She has told me that many times, when there was something in a book that she didn't want the kids to read, she would black it out with a sharpie, or white it out with liquid correction fluid. Don't feel badly if you might decide to do this with the Clinton/immoral sexual acts part. Or even rip out those pages. Just a thought....

[MamaPajama]

I have a Christian friend, in my local homeschool moms group, who I consider as one "older and wiser". She is in her mid 50's, has 7 children, 3 currently at home- jr. high and high school age. She has homeschooled all of them with CM methods and "better late than early" philosophy. She has told me that many times, when there was something in a book that she didn't want the kids to read, she would black it out with a sharpie, or white it out with liquid correction fluid. Don't feel badly if you might decide to do this with the Clinton/immoral sexual acts part. Or even rip out those pages. Just a thought....

Good points!

[Daisy]

I felt the same way about the Eggleston books. This was easily solved by checking out library books from various perspectives. It gave us a more balanced viewpoint.

[kiloyd]

We did Bigger this year and didn't use that book. Is it just in the extension pack?

Katherine
ds (9 tomorrow!) Bigger
dd 5
dd2

[MamaPajama]

Since you asked, I looked, and yes it is only in the extension pack. I'm glad I know that now, because according to Cathy Duffy it's recommended for 4th and 5th graders, and my DS will be going into Bigger as a 2nd grader.

[DHT1999]

The Eggleston book doesn't bother me. Columbus is such a controversial figure. There is ALOT of info. available about him but it seems that all of the writers have strong opinions about him, one way or the other. As far as his kindness, I don't doubt that was true at times. My issue with Columbus is that he himself wrote that he was fulfilling Isiaah's prophecies. When your children are older, you can read primary documents on Columbus but I personally think that the Eggleston books are appropriate for the age of the children that Bigger Hearts is intended for. Any public library will have a ton of alternative views on him. Then, you can get into what is not rumor and what may really be true history. Teaching history in that way takes effort on our parts. But, you will have plenty of time to address the Columbus issue and it's one that you will have to address no matter what history curriculum you use. Just a couple of weeks ago, I checked out several books on Columbus from my local library. There were plenty of books that focused on his supposed cruelty to the Native Americans. I don't think you will have any trouble adding alternative info. on Columbus if you want to. I think that even elementary aged children need to know that the study of history is not a perfect science. When they are older, they can read for themselves his own journals and things that others have written about him.

There is a particular historical figure (King James) that our family thinks is unfairly represented in ALL textbooks! There are terrible rumors about him but we read his own personal writings and meditations. In them, we find a man who loved the Lord and exalted Him constantly. Anyone who reads his own meditations has to be edified in the Lord because all of his doctrines were pure. But, the textbooks say horrible things about him. What are we to believe? My point is that there are historical figures that all of us will find that we feel passionately about. That is why homeschooling is so great! We can explore these issues with our children. When a textbook talks of the "big bad oppressive King", our children have a larger picture of the man as they are being exposed to his own writings.

As for the Child's Story of America, I won't use it and I wish that HOD had an alternative that served the purpose of that book, which is to provide a more fleshed out overview of American History for older children using the program. I have spent months and months trying to find a replacement for that particular book because I had considered combining my son in Bigger Hearts. I couldn't find anything! I have purchased several books and looked at many others, including most of the ones you see in all the "familiar" homeschooling curriculum and I couldn't find anything at the upper elementary to lower middle grade levels that provided a simple, not too brief, not too complex overview of American History.

I hope you don't rule out using HOD over these issues. I share some of your concerns, but I am so thankful for HOD. It is such a wonderful curriculum. And, the history is only one part of the total package. You are going to have to add some balance on Columbus, no matter what curriculum you use, and you can either skip Child's Story of America, or replace it with an alternative, if you can find one. Please let me know if you do find an alternative that you like. I can't.

I pray you find what is comfortable for you.

[smithdonnajo]

DHT1999, That was a very good post, very helpful.

I personally have no problem with the Eggelson book or the CLP book that is in the extension pkg. But, wanted to ask you, in your research of searching for a replacement, did you consider This Country of Ours by H.E. Marshall? I've not read it, but it is recommended on amblesideonline.org and available for free download at gutenburg.org. I've not read it myself, I plan to use the ones listed in HOD for Bigger, but I was thinking about This Country of Ours for my older son to read on his own as part of his extra reading.

Thanks.