Combine older dc??

[momx3]

Hi,
I've asked tons of questions about combining my dc: Millie (2nd) Emma (6th) and Benjamin (10th). My focus was always trying to combine the younger girls into either Bigger, or splitting them into Beyond (Millie) and Preparing (Emma). I looked at the CTC and RTR and I'm wondering if I should focus on trying to combine the older 2. If we did CTC or RTR could Emma do the regular program and add more extensions for Benjamin to make it more like HS? Or RTR the same? We've never used HOD before so I'm not sure if I should start Emma at a lower level (Preparing) and have Benjamin do CTC or RTR? If I don't combine them, where would I start with Benjamin (10th)? If I do CTC, then RTR (11th), what for 12th?? Same with starting with RTR. Won't we run out of programs to do before he graduates?
Thanks for trying to make sense out of all of this!
Kelley

[Mom2Monkeys]

I can't answer all your questions, but for Benjamin, you won't run out of guides before he graduates. There will be a new guide released each year for the next few years. RTR is new this year, then there will be two more guides to complete the history cycle, then a geography based guide, possibly more if the Lord leads Carrie down that path!

FWIW, I'd place them each in their own guides since they are so far apart. You may find it difficult to do all the tweaking to make it go down for one, up for the other, and not truly fit anyone. I'd put them in Beyond, Preparing, and RTR...or start Benjamin on CTC now doing 5 days per week for each guide and a little extra in the summers...he may just get through all 4 of the history guides that way.

[momofgreatones]

I also would do what Tamara suggested, putting them each wherever they fall on the placement chart. From what I understand, Beyond is short and sweet time-wise, and Preparing has the kids doing a fair amount of independent work, and RTR can be totally independent, other than the time you may want to spend with him discussing some of the books or other things in the program. So it wouldn't be the heavy load that three programs with other curriculums might be. HOD is designed to be done with multiple guides.

However, you can of course combine if you want to, and if your heart is set on that I might lean toward combining your older two into CTC or RTR. I'm not the expert on these things though so I'll leave that to other more experienced ladies!

[Carrie]

Kelley,

I honestly think the best route to go first would be to find where each child fits as an individual (on especially the first page of the placement chart linked here): http://www.heartofdakota.com/placing-your-child.php

Then, the next things to ponder will be how well each child does listening to longer chapter book style read-alouds, how they feel about written work in general, how well they follow written directions, and how much each child is used to working independently. These considerations will make a difference in the best placement for your kiddos.

If you get a chance to pop back and share those things, then we can talk about possible options and advise you even better.

Blessings,
Carrie

[sweetsavages]

Monique,
You said that "RTR can be totally independent."
I was wondering if that were true and if my 2 children who will soon be 10 and 13 could do it all mostly on their own so I can be freed up for more time with the younger children?
I see you did CTC.....is it going to be possible to give my kids the Teacher Guide for R to R?
They are both excellent readers.
Thanks
Misti
Mom to 7

[my3sons]

Hi Kelley! I was trying to remember the specifics you'd already shared about placement since I didn't want you to have to share all that again here, so I reread that last thread where you shared some great details about each child. Because Emma places predominantly in PHFHG (except for math), I wouldn't try to put Emma in CTC or RTR. It would be too much for her, and you would lose all of that independence you could have gained for her by just doing PHFHG or BHFHG. For your oldest, he could really do RTR very independently if he does well with independent work. My teaching time for CTC was around an hour to an hour and a half, and RTR will be equally (and even a bit more) independent. I think putting Emma with Benjamin would really draw out that guide and make it take way longer than it needs too, while also adding unnecessary time to Benjamin's day in the process. I would do RTR with Benjamin, and be careful your beefing up choices are quite independent. For Emma I would do PHFHG, and for Millie, I'd do Beyond - or, I'd put them together in Bigger Hearts. Either choice would be a good one! Doing several HOD programs at once is not difficult, especially when one of the guides is CTC or higher (provided the dc doing those older guides can read and write well, and follow directions independently). However, these are just some thoughts I had about this, and you will definitely know best as the head mama of the household. Praying for you as you ponder!

In Christ,
Julie

[momx3]

Thanks you guys! Your replies are helping me soooooo much! I've written down what everyone has said and maybe my answers/questions will help with your replies.
I thought about what Carrie said about putting them as individuals on the placement chart and then looking more specifically at their other issues.
#1-How well each listens to longer style read-alouds: Millie (7) loves to have read-aloud time (although after a long period of time, she loses interest, probably age related); Emma (11) not so great at listening to read alouds...she's pretty wiggly, but LOVES to read on her own...any time of the day; Benjamin (16) will listen if we have a read-aloud, but like Emma, loves his own reading time.

#2-How does each one feel about written work: Millie (7) is ok with it. She likes to be creative, draw, write songs (about Jesus...precious!!) so that wouldn't be a problem unless it's a lot of writing. She's still writing in print; Emma (11) hates, hates writing anything. We finally had to do most of her lessons orally or she'd dictate and I'd write. That seemed to make it easier for her. I'm not really sure why, but it seems like she almost has problems somewhere between knowing the answer and getting it down on paper because of the actual writing part...(???)Her handwriting is hard to read in either print or cursive; Benjamin (16) has some kind of freak out when he has to write creatively. He's fine with any kind of written work, as long as he doesn't have to think of something on his own. I had him write a paper and it was like pulling teeth!

#3-Following directions: As far as school work, do you mean follow written directions and do them correctly? Or following my directions? Following written directions are easy for Millie and Benjamin. Emma (11) seems to gloss over them and do her own thing. Following my directions they all do fine.

#4-Working independently: Millie (7) is fine as long as she knows what to do. She'd often take her workbooks (CLE) and do them oh her own if she knew what they wanted; Emma(11) likes to work "independently" only because she rushes through to get finished (and get back to her books, play outside, etc....) When I check her work, it is sloppy and she hasn't put a lot of thought into it. Like I said, at the end of the school year, we started doing things orally and I spent most of my day sitting with her working one-on-one. That seemed to help; Benjamin(16) wants to work independently. Like Millie, if he knows what to do, he'll just take off and do his work. He likes to finish so he can go to work with his Dad. I don't worry about him.

I sat up last night and looked at Beyond and Bigger (didn't get to Preparing yet) and went back and forth between Millie-Beyond and Emma in Preparing. Then I'd consider maybe putting both into Bigger. I just don't want it to be too much of a strech for Millie and not enough for Emma. I've pretty much decided to put Benjamin into RTR, but will need some guidance on how to make it more HS-ish(I'll keep checking for ideas on that one).

I know this really shouldn't matter, but looking at Beyond and Bigger (putting one in each) I liked that at least, each one would be studying American History...bigger just going into greater detail (right?) I don't know why it's such a stretch for me to have Millie in American History and Emma in World History (Preparing...just a weird thing I have, I guess!LOL)

So......thank you all for continuing to offer suggestions and guidance. I'm so excited about beginning HOD in the fall, I just want to make sure that I order the right programs. I feel like I've gone from program to program each year, and I don't want to slow them down or mess anything up by putting them in the wrong book.
Thank you!!
Kelley

[my3sons]

Kelley - thanks for sharing specifically about each of your dc! They sound precious. I think Benjamin in RTR and Millie in Beyond would probably work well. It is Emma I'm pondering. I had an idea for Emma. Since CM advocates letting dc read their own history and science when they are able to - usually age 9 or older - and since dear Emma loves to read independently, I wonder if you could have her do her history and science readings independently. You could haver her do this for either Bigger Hearts or PHFHG. I would lean toward Bigger Hearts, as the readings are easier. There is also less writing in Bigger Hearts than in PHFHG, and since writing isn't Emma's favorite thing, that is a bonus as well. You could have Emma read the extensions for Bigger Hearts as well, but not do the follow-ups for those. If she could do the reading for Bigger Hearts, you could just focus on helping her do the follow-up activities to the reading (i.e. notebooking, experiments, history activity, etc.). Since you were sitting by her side to help her with these things already last year, perhaps letting her do the reading would free up that time for you, and then sitting by her side to help her with the follow-up work would be a better use of your time. You could make this a year to really focus on teaching her how to follow directions in the HOD manual. Carrie has some good ideas for teaching independence within Bigger Hearts. I had wondered if a 9 yo could do the history reading well for Bigger Hearts, but Carrie thought so, so I'm sure your 11 yo would do well with that. You can read about this at this link:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=6502&p=47428

Another benefit of having Emma start off with Bigger Hearts is if you got going with Beyond and Bigger and thought that Millie could join Emma in Bigger, you'd already have it and be able to tell for sure if that was feasible. If you made that switch later, you could still use Beyond for Millie's LA and math.

Of course, you could do the same thing with PHFHG - have Emma be quite independent with the readings, do the extensions, and then follow up with her doing the discussions/activities. Since writing is something to consider for Emma, here is a link that compares the writing in BHFHG and PHFHG:
Amount of writing in Bigger vs. PHFHG:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3602

Those were just a few thoughts I had. I'll keep praying for you in this decision!
In Christ,
Julie

[momx3]

Julie,
Thanks for so much help and prayers! I feel like I'm constantly asking questions
I looked at the old threads that you suggested and they also helped a lot. When I think of starting Emma in Preparing, I just can't feel settled. I really think I need to go with Bigger for her. I'm going to look at both side by side, but I don't want to start her out at a high level of frustration. Poor thing, she's been bounced around from curric to curric for 4 years! I'd rather start out on the easier side, and then add extensions/followups as needed. I really think Millie will do well with Beyond.

I hope I haven't asked this before, but won't they both study American History being in Beyond and Bigger? I've decided that they will definitely need different programs, but I'd LOVE for them to at least study the same history (American vs World). Just a weird thing, I guess.

As far as Benjamin goes, I'm going back and forth between HOD or more of an eclectic approach, choosing something different for every subject. I will definitely go with RTR if I use HOD....

I used R&S with Benjamin as a 6th grader (6th level) coming out of ps and it was terrible. Way too difficult for him. I've looked at the earlier samples and I'd really like to use R&S with the girls, but just trying to decide on the levels to start with. Millie could probably go into Level 2, I think, but Emma would definitely have to back up to at least 4th-5th level. Did I fail to mention that along with an adversion to writing, she also dislikes English and Math?! Doesn't leave many subjects, huh? What will I do when she finishes 8th grade and hasn't done all 6 levels in R&S? Should I find another program that is easier?
I've looked at Singapore math and I'm REALLY scared of that program. Especially since she is weak in Math (Benjamin, too....) I'd hate to keep on frustrating her/them year after year. Do you use Singapore? Any other suggestions?
Well, once again Ive asked tons of questions! Thanks so much for your input and guidance!
Kelley

[my3sons]

Good afternoon, Kelley! Keep the questions coming until you're all set! We like to help here!

...won't they both study American History being in Beyond and Bigger? I've decided that they will definitely need different programs, but I'd LOVE for them to at least study the same history (American vs World).

Yes, they'll both be studying American history, though with a different focus, which would be fun. "Beyond..." covers from the 1500's - 1800's), and "Bigger..." covers from 1500's to 1970's.

...I'd really like to use R&S with the girls, but just trying to decide on the levels to start with. Millie could probably go into Level 2, I think, but Emma would definitely have to back up to at least 4th-5th level... What will I do when she finishes 8th grade and hasn't done all 6 levels in R&S? Should I find another program that is easier?

HOD suggests doing a good portion of R & S English orally. We have done that, and it has made R & S easy to do, time conscious, and yet still thorough. I think you could have Millie do Level 2, and Emma start with either Level 4 daily, or Level 5 twice a week. I think by doing 2/3 of it orally or with you writing on markerboard, she'd do super with it! At this link I described how we do R & S this way, in case something here may help:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4659&p=34269#p34269
If you had Emma do Level 4 this year for sixth grade, she'd do Level 5 for seventh grade, and Level 6 for eighth grade - she'd be on track to do just fine with it! Or, you could have her do Level 5 half-speed 2 days a week this year, finish Level 5 out half-speed 2 days a week the next year, and do Level 6 daily for her eighth grade year. HTH!

I've looked at Singapore math and I'm REALLY scared of that program. Especially since she is weak in Math (Benjamin, too....) I'd hate to keep on frustrating her/them year after year. Do you use Singapore? Any other suggestions?

I do use Singapore and like it very much. I do think correct placement in Singapore is a big deal. Have you tried the Singapore placement test for them? It's free and can be printed off the Internet to give at home. Here's a link for that:
http://www.singaporemath.com

Just click on the "placement" tab at the top. For Millie, Singapore will be fine. She's young, and it's easy to do Singapore when you start it with HOD's plans and at a young age. For Emma, you could see where she places and then consider what you'd like to do. Any math will work with HOD, so if Singapore is scaring you, maybe something else would be better to try. Here are a few links that may be good to read about Singapore as you consider your math options:
Singapore Math (why Carrie picked it and my top reasons for using it)
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4271&p=31537#p31537
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=112

I do want to stress that any math can be used though, and math is one of those subjects that personal preference needs to be considered, so if I were you I'd give Singapore a good look, pray about it, and then if you feel you are being led in a different math direction go that way. HTH! You are close to having things all figured out and ready to go here, and I think you are coming up with a very good plan for your kiddos and for you too!

In Christ,
Julie

[momx3]

Julie,
Hey! Sorry it's taken so long to get back to you. I love your suggestions! I'm going to place Millie in Beyond and Emma in Bigger. (Still unsure about Benjamin ) I'm going to use R&S Level 2 for Millie and 4 or 5 for Emma. Is there an easy way to figure out placement there? I've seen samples but I'm still not sure. Did you say English is only 2-3x weekly?

Math. I've read the links and I'm ready to at least give Singapore a try. I'll do the placement test and get back to you on that one. (PS...what if Emma scores REALLY low? Like level 2 or 3? Yikes!) She struggles with multiplication/division. It's almost like she can't sit still enough to learn by memorization practice. (?) Maybe I could make the facts into a kinesthetic-type game. We've tried flash cards for the past 2 years, but she's so easily distracted!

Does Carrie have the "plans" for English and Math planned out to match textbook to R&S/Singapore? That probably doesn't even make sense! I mean, do we follow the books, or follow the plans in the guides (Beyond and Bigger)? And if so, what if Bigger doesn't match the level that Emma is using in those two subjects?

Thanks again! I'm grateful for your help
Kelley

[my3sons]

Julie,
Hey! Sorry it's taken so long to get back to you. I love your suggestions! I'm going to place Millie in Beyond and Emma in Bigger. (Still unsure about Benjamin ) I'm going to use R&S Level 2 for Millie and 4 or 5 for Emma. Is there an easy way to figure out placement there? I've seen samples but I'm still not sure. Did you say English is only 2-3x weekly?

Math. I've read the links and I'm ready to at least give Singapore a try. I'll do the placement test and get back to you on that one. (PS...what if Emma scores REALLY low? Like level 2 or 3? Yikes!) She struggles with multiplication/division. It's almost like she can't sit still enough to learn by memorization practice. (?) Maybe I could make the facts into a kinesthetic-type game. We've tried flash cards for the past 2 years, but she's so easily distracted!

Does Carrie have the "plans" for English and Math planned out to match textbook to R&S/Singapore? That probably doesn't even make sense! I mean, do we follow the books, or follow the plans in the guides (Beyond and Bigger)? And if so, what if Bigger doesn't match the level that Emma is using in those two subjects?

Thanks again! I'm grateful for your help

Kelley

Hi Kelley!
It's good to hear back from you! Diagramming begins in R & S English 3, if that helps at all. I'd guess Emma should begin in R & S English 4 and do it daily this year. You could check out R & S English samples on their site, if you think she is ready for the scope and sequence of English 5, she could do that 2 times a week instead. As far as math, wherever she tests, even if it's lower than you expect, I'd begin there in Singapore. It's easier to start there, get a good foundation, fill in any gaps, and then move more quickly later to "catch up". If she tests in 2A/2B, I'd use the hands-on plans in the Bigger Hearts manual with her. That year did a lot for my ds to mature his math skills! If she tests in 2B, I'd start there with the hands-on, and then finish with 3A Textbook/Workbook as scheduled in Bigger Heart's appendix.

I accidentally started my ds a semester ahead last year. (I forgot he is my start with a "B" level, end with an "A" level in Singapore ). I got a few weeks in and couldn't figure out why it was so hard for him! I then realized he was supposed to do 3B and 4A last year. Anyway, we made the switch, and it was smooth sailing. One other thing I've figured out the hard way about math. It is best to teach the methods the Singapore way, rather than throwing in my own ways or tips as well. When I just teach it the way they suggest, math goes great. I confuse him by throwing in my "old school" ways. I am learning a ton in math right now myself! I really love Singapore's way of teaching things. It is easier to apply to word problems (and to life).

Carrie does have plans for grammar and for math in the guides. Beyond Little Hearts... has hands-on math lessons in the daily plans for 1A/1B. In its Appendix, it has a schedule of textbook and workbook pages for 2A/2B. It has a gentle grammar lesson to teach the basic parts of speech 1 time a week in the daily plans on Day 5 of each week's unit.

Bigger Hearts... has hands-on math lessons in the daily plans for 2A/2B. In its Appendix, it has a schedule of textbook and workbook pages for 3A/3B. It has R & S English 2 planned in the daily plans in the Language Arts box.

If your dc are in different levels of math than the guide, you'd just use the textbook/workbook to teach them, doing approximately lesson a day. Same thing for the R & S English. I would encourage using the hands-on plans for math though, if your dc are in the levels for which HOD has written them. They are excellent! HTH!

In Christ,
Julie