Rethinking my decision

[busymomma]

A while back before Christmas, I had posted on here about placement for my three daughters. I had decided that the youngest placed in Beyond, the middle one in Bigger, and I was going to combine them in Beyond with language arts and math from Bigger for my 8 year old. I am really hoping her handwriting improves before I move her to Bigger!

But my real dilemma is I am considering maybe that my oldest daughter may need to be placed in CTC instead of Preparing. She is the right age to do CTC with extensions. But I thought that weak writing, narration, and dictation placed her better in Preparing. But as the year has progressed, her writing skills have really improved. How important is already being skilled at narration and dictation to doing CTC. Could she learn these things while doing CTC? It really doesn't help that when I showed her what I was going to buy, she wanted CTC instead. She understood that it would be more work, and said she could handle it. What do you guys think? Are there skills that she must be really good at before doing CTC? By the way, I was going to put her in English 5, anyway after finishing Climbing to Good English 4. Opinions, anyone?

Toni

[busymomma]

Hi everyone

Does anyone have any advice for me? Carrie? Julie? Anybody?

How important is it to do Preparing before doing Creation to Christ? If her writing skills have improved, should we go ahead? I have heard that some people use Preparing in 7th even though that is not how it is intended, but I guess I almost feel as if I would be holding her back to do this. But we are new to Heart of Dakota, and Charlotte Mason type of school so I don't want to jump ahead to CTC if it would be in her interests to do Preparing first.

Toni

[inHistiming]

I have a 12 yo doing CTC...we just started right before Christmas....and it is plenty challenging for him. I don't know if it's necessary to do Preparing...if you feel dd places in CTC, but I can tell you I don't think she would be 'behind' if she went through Preparing.... It is a full program as well (my dd 10 is doing it now) and my ds 12 has been reading the books on his own time because he's interested in what they're about...an added bonus! It gives a good overview of world history so is a great precursor to CTC. My son is finding the writing program, history projects, dictation, etc. to be challenging. He is reading the extension package books, and we chose not to do the story time read alouds this year, just because I needed him to be more independent. We will do CTC as written when my daughter gets there. My daughter is really enjoying Preparing...she loves having the independent boxes to do, it gives her ownership I think...and we both enjoy the reading aloud that we do together. If you needed 'extra' work you could always get the extension pack that goes with Preparing and it would definitely be enough for her. Then again, only you truly know her skills. Have you looked at the plaement chart again? Heres the link:

http://heartofdakota.com/placing-your-child.php

It may be a good idea to look at the chart again in light of her improvements to see where she places now....several months can make a huge difference! I'm sure you'll get other great advce so keep checking back. And ask more questions if you need to, everyone loves to help.

[busymomma]

Thanks so much inhistiming

I guess what your saying is either way would probably work. Is that right? On the one I feel like she will miss more of Heart of Dakota (Preparing). On the other, she seems really excited about doing Creation to Christ.

What levels of dictation are there for both? How are the narration activities different? As for grammar and reading and English, science, and history, she placed in Creation to Christ. The science will not be a problem. That's one part that she really wants to do the most. Her writing skills are much better. Also, she really loves art, painting, drawing, anything creative. She loves to read and she likes history. The narration and dictation is really the only part I am worried about. So she places in CTC for almost everything.

Toni

[mariaw]

We are doing Preparing, and have not done CTC. But I will say that as far as dictation, Preparing has level 2, 3, and 4. I would assume then CTC would have levels 3, 4, and 5. One of the first level 3 dictation passages is, "Do you want a flower in the schoolroom? If you have none, you must plant some seeds in a pot of earth." If you think your dd is about at that level of spelling, then you'll probably be ok with CTC's dictation.

In terms of narration, I think you'd be fine either way with oral narration. You both will have a little of a learning curve in the beginning, but the process will be same at either level. Written narration is where you might have a little trouble. Again, I haven't done CTC or even really seen much of it, but in Preparing, the written narration process is eased into slowly. It starts with more pointed questions and sentence starters, then slowly gives less and less structure, so that by the end of the year, the student is able to write a 5 sentence narration on his/her own. Maybe someone who is doing CTC can chime in on written narration in that guide.

Of course, you could always do CTC with a lower dictation level, and you could also tweak the written narrations if your daughter needs more guidance in the beginning. I do think that the fact that your dd is excited about CTC is a great thing, because it's so important that they *want* to learn the subject matter! Hope that helps some!

[busymomma]

Yes, thank you that helps a lot. Actually that dictation sample that you shared would probably be easy for her. It is the long, complicated words that she might have an issue, like adventurous or encyclopedia. She does need a little more practice with punctuation which dictation would probably be helpful with. We might have to ease into the written narrations a little slower. But it shouldn't take her too long to catch on. I really feel like its good that she shows an interest in this. Usually, she does not care and says its all going to be boring anyway so it doesn't matter what we use. A little attitude there, I know . I'm not saying that Preparing is boring. Don't get me wrong. I don't mean that at all.

[Carrie]

Toni,

I'm so sorry that I missed this post! The ladies are doing a terrific job of dialoguing through your options with you. One thing that you'll want to be sure about with CTC is that your daughter can handle the readings on her own. This will make a big difference in how well she is able to handle the corresponding assignments that go with the readings. It will also really cut down on the amount of time you need to spend with her in this area. Here's a link to The Story of the Ancient World text, so you can make sure she'll be able to read and easily comprehend the material. Link: http://www.nothingnewpress.com/guerber/ancient-xxx.html

Next, I'd weigh how independent of a student she is at this point. CTC intends for the student to move toward being much more independent than Preparing Hearts. It assumes the student can follow written directions well and is ready to have a greater portion of his/her day with directions written right to him/her, rather than having the parent involved in every part of the day. It works well for a student who already has some independence and self-direction in place or with a student who has already practiced the skills needed for CTC by going through Preparing Hearts first (with some guided help from the parent). Either scenario will work in a child's favor in completing CTC. If your child is not very independent or self-motivated, then it would be a good idea to go through Preparing Hearts first. Otherwise, you may find yourself standing over your child waiting for him/her to complete each assignment.

Finally, there is a definite step up in the level of writing required within CTC. It is important that the child has strengthened his/her writing skills through Rod and Staff grammar (or its equivalent), copywork, written narration practice (or an equivalent writing practice of some sort), dictation (or a spelling program), can complete a lab sheet, answer questions, and that the student is not averse to writing. While CTC is not writing heavy for the age/grade level, it can feel like a lot for students who have not had much writing required prior to entering CTC.

The written narration lessons in CTC start out guiding a child much like Preparing Hearts and gradually give way to more student-led narrations. The dictation passages come from Levels 3, 4, and 5 (with 5 being plenty challenging). I hope this helps.

Blessings,
Carrie

[busymomma]

Thanks Carrie

This does give me a lot to think about. Although she is capable of following directions, she seems to lack motivation. For instance, she will be in her room quietly doing her work so her sisters do not distract her. She gets distracted by a bird or a squirrel outside her window. I will go to check on her and she hasn't even finished one assignment. But she can tell me all about what the bird or the squirrel is doing. She is very fond of animals! She has seen foxes, deer, even skunks all from her bedroom window. Hmm... Maybe I should close the curtains more.

I think the dictation will fit her just fine in either guide. As for the difficulty in reading, I guess maybe I should let her read a sample of it to see what she thinks. I may have to decide this without her input, though because she has become quite adamant about this.

[busymomma]

Well, I think possibly my original plan was the better choice after all. I let her desire for Creation to Christ cloud my judgement. Due to my curriculum hopping, I think she could use to go through Preparing Hearts first. Also, we will all have a bit of a learning curve. I find Charlotte Mason way of teaching very inviting, but it is new to us. Also, I have always combined them all, and let the younger ones learn whatever they can. Not the best idea, by the way. So I will need to balance the two programs. I don't want to get overwhelmed. I would rather not think of it as holding her back, though. I think she thought from looking at the weekly check-in that it was for younger children. She doesn't want to be babied.

Because of her interest in animals, I thought I could use Zoology 2 from Apologia on the 5th day of each unit, or even at her leisure. We used Zoology 1 a couple of years ago, and she enjoyed that. After we do Preparing Hearts, then she can do Zoology 3. It's ok to expand on their interests, right? I've looked at that book, and it does cover a lot more than just fish.

One other interest she had was Bible History, which Preparing Hearts covers some of that, too. And all those great books I would hate for her to miss. She will be in 7th grade this fall. Do you think this is acceptable for 7th grade if we use the extensions, English 5, after she finishes her current English program, and DITHOR 6/7/8?


Opinions, anyone?

[mariaw]

One other interest she had was Bible History, which Preparing Hearts covers some of that, too.
Opinions, anyone?

Preparing is WONDERFUL for this! I consider myself pretty well-versed in Bible History, and I am learning so much myself. This is one of my absolute favorite parts of Preparing.

[juliekay]

Some additional thought. If you are just starting out with HOD. Stepping back a guide and adding the extensions has worked out beautifully for my extension-aged children. Getting the schedule of dictation, written narration, and some other notebooking down to a routine for them has been extremely successful, but not that "easy". Does that make sense? Plus, I am sure you are going to keep her going on age-appropriate math and grammar/writing. Here we are 1/2 way through Preparing this year and we are still loving it! My older children are writing wonderful narrations, their editing skills have finally kick into gear and we're reading wonderful Bible stories as we travel through history. I can't wait to hear how your first day of HOD goes!

[busymomma]

Thanks so much JulieKay

That makes a lot of sense and makes me feel so much better. Also I see that you are also using Preparing with older kids, too. Do you find that it seems age appropriate for them? Also, what do you plan to do as they get older? Do you plan to just stay with HOD all the way through using extensions as you go? Or as they enter into high school are you going to change what you're using?

Toni

[juliekay]

I see that you are also using Preparing with older kids, too. Do you find that it seems age appropriate for them? Also, what do you plan to do as they get older? Do you plan to just stay with HOD all the way through using extensions as you go? Or as they enter into high school are you going to change what you're using?
Toni

Hi Toni. Preparing has been very appropriate for all of my kiddos. We've added the extensions and just a few other things - mostly to Ind. Science. If you plan to add to Preparing I would suggest starting it as written and then add to your daughters load a week at a time. Next year my 12 & 13 yr. old will skip CTC and more on to RTR. They will be in 7th and 8th grade. My 9 year old will step back into Bigger with extensions.
High school - yikes! Carrie had mentioned a Geography Guide for high school just recently and this makes a lot of sense to me mostly because high school subjects seem to become very independent of each other. Our family has a goal of getting our children into duel enrollment programs with our local community colleges and CLEPing by their 11th grade year.... I'm praying for a lot more maturing in every area of their beings between now and then! Really all I can "plan" is taking it prayerfully 1 year at a time, but since our discovery of HOD I certainly plan to use it whenever and with whomever I possibly can from this point on in our homeschooling adventure.

[busymomma]

Wow that's really interesting. I can't see her being that motivated in just a few short years. But you never know, right? I guess it really is better to take it one year at a time. I have to keep reminding myself that. It was nice talking to you.

[Carrie]

Toni,

You sound like you have a good plan forming. I would likely recommend rechecking the placement chart in another couple of months to see how much your daughter has matured. I agree that it would be wise to have your daughter read some of The Story of the Ancient World to see how well she does with that. It would also be good to have her read a sample of the Apologia Zoo. 3 text to see how well she does with that independently.

Doing English 5 (full-speed) and Level 6/7/8 of DITHR (3 times per week) will be right on track for what she'll need for high school, so you can feel good about those areas. If you do go with Preparing Hearts, you may wish to add a formal writing program (such as Igniting Your Writing) once weekly as well.

You may also find that you need a higher level of dictation passages, depending on how well your daughter spells. This can be found within the CTC guide if needed. Another thought that may be worth pondering, is if you do use Preparing Hearts for history, since your daughter will be a 7th grader you could use just the science (and possibly dictation) from CTC if desired instead of the science from Preparing Hearts.

Anyway, just some food for thought.

Blessings,
Carrie