Placement ~~ Carrie? Julie? Could you take a peek?

[Mom2Monkeys]

so if you've seen my post here: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5473 , then you know what's going on. I'm going to put some HOD options I'm considering and just want to know what you think. Especially Carrie and Julie since you know these programs so well! DD8 is in 3rd, but I am still considering holding her back this new school year and keeping her as 3rd again. I'm going to pretend below I have not/will not be doing that though...but something to consider.

OPTION 1: DS6/K focus on 3R's for now, tag along where he can now with DD8/3rd starting Bigger again, skipping ahead to units covering topics we've not aleady done. (somewhere between unit 9 and 15). She will progress through the guides after that as she finishes each one and he can tag along until about 3rd grade until he's able to start Bigger.

OPTION 2: DS6 and DD8 both just focus on 3R's for now and DD8 can continue reading living books for history and science, then start something for new school year with them both in May when they'll be DS6.5/1st and DD9/4th (in june). Perhaps start Bigger them as planned above.

OPTION 3: DS6 and DD8 do a year of geography (like Galloping the Globe) until next December when they'll be 7&9 (1st&4th) and start Bigger with them both then. Then we'll continue through the guides each year with them both combined with each guide having a mid-year start to keep ds within the age span of the guides. (starting 2nd half of one grade and finishing first half of next grade)

This would have dd finishing the guides while in high school.
Bigger with them being grades 1/2 and 4/5 (ages 7 and 9/10)
Preparing 2/3 and 5/6 (8 and 10/11)
CTC 3/4 and 6/7 (9 and 11/12)
RTR 4/5 and 7/8 (10 and 12/13)
Next Gd. 5/6 and 8/9 (11 and 13/14)
Next Gd. 6/7 and 9/10 (12 and 14/15)

Unless I did hold dd back this year, then she'd finish mid-year in 9th grade. Would being on the low end of the age range be too much for ds?

Input? More options? Advice?

[busymomma]

Hi Mom2Monkeys

I don't post on here very often because I don't use Heart of Dakota YET, but definitely plan to, hopefully soon! But I do read a lot of posts on here. I have read about your situation, and I remember the days of a rough toddler even though mine was a girl. She did challenge me all the same. I sympathize with you really, I do. My first year homeschooling I had a newborn, a 2 year old that did not want to potty train, and she was HYPER I also fell and hurt my ankle and couldn't walk for 6 weeks. My then 1st grader was the least bit interested in school. She wanted to play! Needless to say, that year was rough!!

ETA: I'm not saying my situation was the same as yours, only that I somewhat understand what your going through, but you have one more than me. All mine are girls, which I have heard makes a big difference.

I said all that to say this Relax, take it easy. Option 2 sounds like the best plan to me if I were in your shoes. Don't make it harder on yourself. Also, this plan may make it easier for the 2 older ones to combine throughout the guides. You may have to tweak it for your younger one so it's not too challenging. If that does not work, you can always go back to Option 1. I think that one was just to have him work only on the 3 R's, right?

Like I said, I'm very new. I'm just a HOD wannabe(soon). But I still felt compelled to respond.

I hope something I said helps!

Toni

[Mom2Monkeys]

Thanks Toni, at least I know I"m not alone!

I did think of one more option...

OPTION 4: DD8 and DS6 both con't just 3R's and hold off starting a guide until new school year this fall, possibly mid-year and start DD in Preparing, which is likely where she'd place (will be 9-9.5 then). DS will be 1st grade (6.5-7yo) and can stay with mostly 3R's and learning games until about 3rd grade and then can start Bigger. By then DD will be in the guide after RTR and rather independent. That would keep me from having to pull him along or holding DD back any. DS could always listen in and take part in what he can/wants no matter what guide we start.

OPTION 5: Do basically same thing but start a little sooner and with Bigger for DD instead of Preparing. (plus being I already own all of Bigger, plus some extensions)

I just can't wait to get going with HOD again! I really need some expert advice here! It's so tricky working with little wild thing and new baby! I know right placement is key, and I have no idea where to start.

[busymomma]

Hi Mom2Monkeys

I am not an expert by any means, but either one of those also sound like good options. I hope you get it all figured out and make the best choice for your family. It can be a tough choice sometimes. Once you feel at peace with your decision, just don't look back!

I am guilty many times of rehashing things, wishing I had done that different, or changed this or wanting to go back and fix where I messed up, in homeschooling and in life, for that matter. Anyway, not sure why I am saying all that. My own personal struggles, I guess. God Bless You, and look forward to hearing what you decided!

Toni

[Tmisek]

Hi Tamara,

I read your earlier post, and you do have a lot going on right now! I pray things calm down SOON. Even though things have fallen off-track for a while, it doesn't look like your children are "behind" academically, and I am sure your dd will do just fine with testing.

I know Carrie and Julie will have good advice, but I will throw a couple things out that came to my mind.

One idea I had is to go half-speed with Bigger for a while with your dd. (I know some people continue to do math daily when they go half speed). That will shorten the school day, make things a little bit more relaxed for now, but still have structured school in the routine so that it makes the transition to getting back to full-speed easier.

I don't have much advice about the 6 yo. It would be nice to combine him with your dd, but Bigger may too much? Or maybe going half-speed would slow it down enough so he could participate. Another option would be to do LHFHG at half speed. It would probably take less than hour, and may be do-able that way.

Another thing which may be something to think about is to try to get school done with as early as you can. I know you mentioned taking lots of breaks, which may work for you. But at our house, when we have too many breaks in our day things do not go well. It is hard for both me and my children to get back in the "school mode" after playing. Also, I have noticed the longer the day goes, the less patience we all have. It always feels good to just "get 'ur done"! Especially if we are tired. Of course, I don't have a nursing baby, so you may need those breaks.

As for your 3 yo...I can just offer ((hugs)) for that. Age 3 is definitely challenging for some kids. They say "terrible twos", but I always found three was much more terrible. Oh, and no more beans!

I guess that's all I have. Hopefully you come up with a plan soon!

Blessings,

[Mom2Monkeys]

I like this half speed idea too. I'm still unsure of how to proceed if I want to keep them together though...as a tag along that's fine (and he coudl start Bigger on his own when he's older). But to just keep going through the guides with her from here on out I'm not so sure.... I'm also worried about moving too slowly for dd. She's about ready for Preparing so I'm not sure I want to take that long on Bigger.

If I did do half speed with Bigger, and we did math and Grammar (phonics for ds6) everyday, what's the best way to split it up to make our days fairly balanced? We have outside activities twice weekly-- M and W-- so those days might be cut short, but if we get school done early in the day, it shoudln't matter. But with all the nursing baby breaks and interruption with the toddler, it might take us longer meaning some days we won't get done! That is hard for my personality to take! I'm trying to get over the all or none mindset...I feel I can't start if I can't finish. Ugh.

I can't wait to hear more options everyone!

[Mom2Monkeys]

Okay, so this is what I'm thinking-- tentatively. I'm going to use this time to do 3R's and things we can learn from, but just have fun...nothing that it too scheduled or has to be done daily or has a true starting/stopping point so I don't feel behind and such. ...that stresses me out! I'm also going to plan on keeping dd8 back in 3rd when we have to redo our homeschool intent forms. I think this will make it where I can hold them off until to two oldest can combine in Bigger in a year...I wish we didn't already do Beyond, or I'd stick them both there now!

So this semester, DD8 will do Math Mammoth topical guides to fill in gaps and then move to MM Grade 3, and do R&S Grammar 3 every other day and MadLibs whenever she wants. I'll have her continue reading whatever she can get her hands on, watch Newton's Workshop DVD's and Bill Nye videos and read for science. We'll play lots of fun math board games too.
DS6 will continue SM EB2, Phonics Pathways/Reading Made Easy, and I guess I need to get him a structured handwriting program instead of going at it on my own.

Together (including the 3yo, which he'll love!) and using things I already own, we will use WeeBeeTunes Travel Adventures DVD's, Children Just Like Me and Children Just Like Me: Celebrations, missionary story books and bigraphies about people around the world to study some world geography. We'll also take a bit to focus on the US. We'll do this in a fun notebooking fashion, and I think I'll even start back on English From The Roots Up with the notebooking pages. None of this will need to much from me. We can play geography games and just take an easy year and still learn tons. I can just pick something to do as we're able...and if we aren't able, we just don't do it! No pressure!

Being familar with state and country location will help DD when we start back in Bigger in about a year, when I can combine the two oldest. I think with holding dd back one grade, she'll finish the last new guide in 9th grade and age 15. I'm sure the last guide will be easier to tweak for high school than the first. Then we can just do a 3yr highschool history program.

So, in a year ds will just turn 7 and dd will be 9.5...in a year and a half ds will be 7.5 and dd 10. With holding back dd, they'll be either mid- 1st and 3rd or starting 2nd and 4th. Think Bigger will be doable like that? Does my plan sound easy enough, yet full enough for fun while we are in this "season". Oh, on a side note, DH will be graduating as an RN in 1 year...that means he'll be home much more, which I hope means DS3 would benefit from that extra daddy time and make life easier for us all.

[Carrie]

Tamara,

It is nice to "see" you again and to hear that your baby is here. First of all, it's important that you give yourself a settling in period with a new baby. You'll want to make sure not to overwhelm yourself. My heart goes out to with all of the changes you've had, and I know this must be an ongoing tough time in light of the other things we've discussed this past year. One thing that can be really helpful is to have a routine or order in which you do things, as it has a calming effect on everyone in the household to know what general order things happen each day. For some kids, routine is necessary for them to feel stable and secure. For other kiddos, routine is not as needed, but in almost all cases routine never hurts anyone and makes the day flow better for almost all personality types. This does not mean that you need to do everything at the exact same time each day, but doing things in the same order (no matter when you start your day) will be a good first goal.

As I was pondering your situation and in trying to remember where you were at guide-wise when you were last on the board, I've spent some time going back through old posts. I honestly think that consistent steady progress forward in bite-sized pieces is the second most important goal right now. So, no matter what you choose to do curriculum-wise, I'd set a routine and progress steadily through it. From your past posts, I know we spent a lot of time discussing options then and all sorts of other curriculum ideas. So, from one born researcher to another, I'll share that I know it can be tough to move steadily through something without always thinking that the grass is greener with a different product. So, I'll encourage you that whatever you choose, whether it's HOD or not, commit to staying with it for a year. There is consistency that comes with using something for a year and consistency brings steady progress.

As I was thinking about your long-term plans to one day combine your son with your daughter within Bigger Hearts, I'm wondering if there's any way he'll be ready to make that big of a leap without first doing LHFGH or Beyond or some other formal history/science etc. prior to Bigger Hearts. You may find that you've waited a year to combine them only to find that they are too far apart academically to combine well. This leads to what I'd consider as the third most important goal right now.

The third most important thing to do is to look at where your kiddos are right now and make the best decision that you can for the time that is at hand. You can always re-evaluate as the years pass, but until your son makes some pretty large strides in the 3R's it will be quite awhile before he is able to combine well with your daughter. As moms, we often spend much time planning for the future and making a game plan for years to come. This is fine to do, but in all honesty it can sometimes affect our ability to really see our kiddos as they are right now and hinder us from making the best plan for them based on the present.

Now, we arrive at the fourth most important goal, which is to figure out what curriculum you will use for the present. In pondering this question, you have to know what your goals for your kiddos are for this upcoming year and what your husband's expectations are for their education for this season. Clearly defined goals will help you choose which curriculum fits those goals.

Once you've had some time to ponder the first four goals I mentioned, you'll know better whether HOD will fit you right now and if so which scenario is best. If you are planning to use HOD, then I would start based on where your kiddos are now. I would start your daughter in Bigger Hearts if that is where she fits on the placement chart. I would start your son in LHFHG if that is where he places on the placement chart. I would lean toward doing both at half-speed. For LHFHG, you could do left side one day and right the next (except for phonics). This takes 45 min. a day including math/phonics/reading aloud. For Bigger Hearts, you could do as I suggested to Florence in this thread. This would take around an hour and a half each day (including daily time spent in the 3R's). That would put your total school day at 2 hours and 15 min. Link: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5431

If you decide to use a different curriculum instead, then you'll know what suits you best and will be able to plan accordingly.

Blessings,
Carrie

[Mom2Monkeys]

Thanks Carrie! I haven't used a different curriculum and don't want to! I just want to use HOD! I've been just letting them learn by reading, reading, and more reading! Mostly HOD books from Little Hearts of Bigger Hearts Storytime and Level 2/3 DITHOR. My problem has been how to get back into it and how to set it up knowing I can keep up with it on a consistent basis. I like your ideas of having the same order of events and I'm trying to implement that now. I can in no way do a schedule at this point for sure! Routine works though...if I can peel myself out of bed early enough to get going!

I thought about just filling in this year with "something" so I can combine them and not be commited to anything beyond the basics. Since I have so many great books on hand, I thought I might use those for fun stuff that's just educational at the same time...but what you said about ds possibly not being ready, even if he is within the age range to combine, well...that makes sense.

I think for now, since I only have Bigger on hand, I'll start Bigger with DD8 and let DS6 tag along as able and continue his most important lessons-- reading and math. Then when he's ready (and I'm able!), I can start him in Beyond or Bigger. I'll make sure to practice the skills he'll need and we'll use the Emerging Reader Set after we finish his phonics. I was able to get in an hour of school today...that's it! But, it feels great to start. I will plan to ease into it. Math and Grammar with DD8 first, then I'll add in phonics and math with DS6, then we'll work in adding Bigger half-speed, then add in LHTH for 3yo (sometimes with me and sometimes with DD8 during DS6's school time).

For the record on the older posts, DH didn't end up teaching science and Bible and I could have just stayed on my same path but slowed it down. He got to overwhelmed with RN school, and I was just too overwhelmed with being pregnant, sick, heart troubles, kid issues, and all the like. The grass has never been green on the other side since I found HOD! Homeschool and life in general just got to be too much! We can't wait to get started.

[my3sons]

Tamara - Good to hear from you! We've had some health concerns in our family, so I am sorry I'm just getting back to you. A lot has happened since we last chatted, and I think you are wise to step back and reflect on what path to take. I always make a schedule for the start of school, but in truth, it's the routine that we follow for the year. Here is an awesome thread on that topic:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5244

One thing that was really helpful for me was to set out a legal pad and generally jot down what I was doing all day and about how long each thing took. The reason I did this is I felt like my whole day was just all of a sudden gone, and I didn't even know what I'd been doing all day sometimes. I kind of just jotted things down over a period of several days and then identified my biggest problem (at that time) was my toddler who was not sleeping well at night, not napping well in the day, and just kind of an unhappy loud little guy demanding my attention most of the day. I also found I was doing all of the chores and even all of the picking up, which was silly considering I had an older child who even then was able to help.

I am not able to utilize my dh for help with chores, teaching, errands, or even "childcare" most days - though he does help out with dc the evenings he is home, which is less and less as he travels more and more. It was helpful for me to step back and realize that he was unable to help and that I needed to figure this out on my own. I love my dh dearly, but his role is to provide, and that is what he's working to do. We had years of my dh in college when we married as well too, so I understand your stage in life right now. I think it would be easier if you just approached this as how you would solve these problems on your own in the day to day, and then just try to enjoy the time your dh is home when he is home. I have had years and years to ponder this and have come to the conclusion (with some help of some wise Christian friends) that not expecting my dh's help with these things and just enjoying our time when we are together as much as possible helps me much more than waiting for a new stage in life that may not be coming.

So, instead of feeling like you are in limbo, waiting for a new stage, I would encourage you to empower yourself and instead move forward, even if it is slowly with LHFHG and Bigger Hearts. I'd take a week to jot down what's going on with your day, and make an action plan to deal with your little toddler and establish a routine for him first. I'd chip away at that until you've got his daily routine down as best you can. Any other time stealers in your day you can delegate out to older dc (i.e. for me it was unloading the dishwasher, taking out the garbage, etc.), I'd delegate away. Meals were another time stealer for me, and they really need not be. Your oldest dd can set the table for breakfast, a very simple lunch menu that rotates can help too. Whatever you identify as a time stealer in your day, you can always post it here and we can kick around solutions together. Believe me, chances are if it's a time stealer in your day, it's probably been on in my day or someone else's on this board as well, as the time stealers are often the same for us homeschool moms.

Back to the school, I would start LHFHG half-speed with phonics daily, and Bigger Hearts half-speed as soon as possible. IF that is where they place on the placement chart that is - if not, then even doing Beyond again would be an option as I know you had many unplanned life interruptions last time that were unforeseen and couldn't be helped. I understand this too, believe me!!! I would begin consistently moving forward half-speed with each of them as soon as possible (maybe in a few weeks when baby is a tad older, and you've had time to reflect on time stealers and routine, as starting even half-speed will do so much to alleviate getting behind and also will move your dc toward being able to combined better too, if that is still a goal.

Sometimes in my life, I have thought to wait until a new stage is coming, only to find that the stage I'm in will be the stage I'm in for a long time. Taking charge today can be daunting but also empowering. I want to encourage you to consider moving forward and attacking each area of difficulty now, so that you can be on your way to real progress toward the life you so desire! You deserve that Tamara, and you are a an intelligent capable woman - I know that from having enjoyed "talking" with you here often in the past. "I can do all things through Christ that strengthens me!" God will equip you to move forward, and I will help (as I'm sure the ladies on this board will) in any way possible!

In Christ,
Julie

[Mom2Monkeys]

Great practical advice, Julie. I've been looking over my days for a while now trying to figure out just that very thing...what AM I doing? Where could I get more time? Am I getting in everything I need to (other than school)?

My time stealers?
Sleeping in (from being so tired from no sleep at night!),
Nursing the baby (about 30-40 minutes of every 2-3 hours),
Getting caught up online while nursing and not getting off as soon as he's done,
Laundry for 6 of us,
Child with laziness/attitude issues when it comes to helping with chores,
Showing AFTER the kids have woken up b/c it takes forever with all the interruptions,
Children not getting along/Refereeing/Reminding to stay on task with chores/attitudes
The Toddler (MAJOR time stealer)
extracurricular activities (DH is going to take over one of the days I have been having to take DS to class so I'm only leaving on Monday afternoons now and maybe Wed nights)

What I'm not fitting in that I'd like to and/or need to:
School
Personal time for me (just to relax and also bible study)
showers everyday
nap
more alone time with each child
exercise (Wii Fit)
a walk
time with DH
more playtime with baby instead of feeling like my goal is always to feed, get him content and sleeping so I can get done with house/kid stuff


What I think would help:
a routine
a menu (which I've done, but then when dh hasn't been able to get to the store and I don't have everything I need, I get stuck and stressed...I can't take all 4 kids to the grocery store on my own right now)
more grownup times with encouraging ladies that have kids and homeschool! (not a good local group around us...the only one meets mostly an hour or more away)
Getting the baby on a feeding schedule with more "playtime" with him
more outside time for kids (come on spring!)

Now, HOW? LOL I know kinda what I need to do, but can't figure out how. What else might help?