Am I doing to much?

[my3good&perfectgifts]

Hi ladies, this is my first time to EVER post on any board, so if I mess it up, I'm sorry. I have a ds(10) in Preparing & DITHOR for 4th grade, ds(7) in LHFHG for 1st grade, and ds(2) doing LHTH when we can. We love HOD and I know I have finally found what I have been looking for all these years.

My question is about LA for my 4th grader. He is doing the vocabulary, poetry, dictation, etc. in PHFHF, but R&S just wasn't a good fit for us. In addition to what he does in Preparing, he does 3 lessons a week in Language Lessons for the Elementary Child by S. Queen, 6 sentences a week in Winston Grammar, and we just switched from BJU4 English to CLE 4 Language. I love the idea of Language Lessons, but it just seems like we aren't doing enough grammar when we just do it. Winston Grammar is great, because my ds is visual. It also doesn't seem to be enough by itself. That is why we also are doing CLE Language.

HOD has been such a wonderful change for us. We have been very textbook oriented thus far. I had to spend the 1st half of the year training my ds(10) how to do the work in PHFHG. He has always used workbooks for everything. I need some suggestions as to what I can eliminate from his LA work load. I DO know he doesn't need all of these. Should I try R&S again and drop everything else? We used it for 2nd grade, so it has been a couple years. If I do try R&S, what grade should I use?

I would greatly appreciate your opinions. This board has been so helpful and encouraging to me over the last several months while trying to get adjusted to this new and wonderful way of schooling.

Carrie, Thank you for writting a curriculum that puts our Lord first. I am learning so much along side my children, and we are all growing in our knowledge of our Lord and Saviour.

[water2wine]

From looking at your list of LA I would say you and I are a lot a like. We tend toward the more is more side. So maybe what I am doing may give you an idea. We also are not presently using R&S. I use what is in the guide with dictation and all of that and then I alternate between CLE and CQLA. It works well because both have a unit start stop place. And I think I do it for the same reason you do and that is nothing has everything I want in it. CQLA comes close but it lacks the formal grammar training so that is why CLE as well. What I have found is it is too much to have it all at once but you can alternate between things if you are consistent with your alternation. So put that out there as an option. Then I guess the other been there done that thing is I think you have too much going on at once. I sort of think HOD covers much of what Queens does so that one would be a likely overlap candidate maybe to put aside. I know CLE and all the stuff in the manual works because we do it ourselves. Then maybe just go light on the Winston if you think that is a good source at driving it home or perhaps that could alternate with CLE and or be done on Fridays type thing. Also want to make sure you get some writing in there some place.

I completely understand where you are at. It's actually the way I feel that LA is sort of it's own unit study on its own. There just isn't anything out there that covers it all. It is too broad a scope. And I will tell you my suggestion to you is going to seem still like too much for many people. But I know others will have great advice, take mine with a grain of salt. I am one of the more is more people especially when it comes to LA. Perhaps because I am trying to overcome a ps deficit with my oldest four. I am more relaxed with the two that have only been hsed.

[3musketeers]

Hi Beth,

Welcome to the HOD Board. You posted absolutely fine. Hopefully it will be the first of more to come. The ladies here are so gracious. I too have 3 boys and I love your username. They are precious gifts.

I had been known to use too many different curriculums in search of a traditional grammar and Charlotte Mason style LA. I at one time was using R&S and Primary Language Lessons. Although I have not used CLE or Winston, my understanding is that they are traditional grammar programs. I am familiar with S.Queen's Language lessons program. I am very much like you in that I like that mix. I have been very relieved to find HOD. I feel that Carrie's dictation, narration plans, copywork, and poetry give our LA a very full CM feel. Then she has added in R&S for the traditional grammar.

I can't tell you exactly what to do. Only you will know what is a good fit for your ds. But I do think if it were me I would choose one traditional grammar and then rely on HOD for all the good CM stuff, in place of S. Queen's lessons. I would recommend that you could choose one of your selections you are using including S.Queen, but I am feeling like from your post that you really like to have more grammar. I have heard CLE is very much like R&S. So if you like that, you could very easily stick with that and continue with all other HOD dictation, poetry, creative writing, and narration. That would be very full.

If you wanted to try R&S again you can find samples on the internet. I would think if ds is in Preparing and has had experience with traditional programs like BJU and CLe you could look at English 3 or 4 for him. I have used R&S for 2nd thru 4th and I find it very thorough, yet gentle in how they incrementally teach grammar. I really like how Carrie suggests doing part of the lessons orally and have dc do one or two of the written sections. But it is not for every one and you could easily exchange Winston or CLE.

I think you might find it freeing to let a few programs go. One of the ones your using now with HOD would be more than enough to teach ds a full LAs program. I totally understand mixing and matching to form the program you are looking for. I have done that alot before HOD. I had a hard time letting go of some of the extra we were doing (still hanging on to spelling ). I know that others whom have used the programs you are using will pop in with more specifics. I would just encourage you to look at all your programs and perhaps choose the one you love the best. Then rely on HOD for the rest.

I know you will find the right mix. But I do think your right in your feeling that limiting some will make your day easier.

I just noticed Water2Wine was posting at the same time. Sounds like she has more experience with CLE and has another option. I think it's great to get lots of ideas and then choose the one that's best for you.

Blessings,
Cindy

[my3good&perfectgifts]

Thanks to both of you. You both made very good points. I do see LA as a whole different study in itself. I guess that is why I always try to do too much. My son would be delighted if I took the extras away.

I am wondering, are the writing activities in PHFHG not enough? At this point, should I be doing another writing curriculum? I thought I would wait until next year and do what Carrie scheduled in CTC.

[water2wine]

I am wondering, are the writing activities in PHFHG not enough? At this point, should I be doing another writing curriculum. I thought I would wait until next year and do what Carrie scheduled in CTC.

Actually yes it is if you do the writing exercises in the manual. Sometimes though when you use other LA it is easy to skip them. We do them and there is plenty of practice there. Sorry about that. sis not mean to mislead you there.

[Carrie]

Beth,

You did a great job with your post, and we're glad to "see" you posting! The ladies have already given you great advice, and I fully agree that one of the grammar programs that you've listed will be more than enough (as long as you're doing the other things that the ladies mentioned from the guide like the writing lessons, dictation, narrations, and poetry). I'm so glad that you are loving your year with HOD! We pray it will continue to bless your family.

I can completely understand your search for the perfect grammar program, as I really hodgepodged it together for my oldest son for years (until I realized that we had W-A-Y too much). My oldest at one time had BJU grammar, Wordly Wise, a word analogies book, a poetry workbook, some of Intermediate Language Lessons for writing, Spelling Power, and DITHR. We were spending hours in language arts every day, and it looked like a workbook pile-up when we were done each day. When I finally realized how many minutes I was actually devoting to language arts daily, I was apalled!

We then made the switch to CM-style language arts: dictation, narration, copywork, and poetry at the end of grade 3. It wasn't until 5th grade that I finally broke down in the search for a fun, memorable grammar curriculum and instead added Rod and Staff for the grammar. I had balked for a long time at doing a formal grammar program like Rod and Staff (because I thought it looked overwhelming and not like fun), and I didn't want to devote that much time to the study of grammar. However, we have found that a strong systematic foundation in grammar is a huge help in writing. We've found that the instruction in Rod and Staff can't be beat for the level of retention it produces. My next son in line has only done what we have planned in our guides (starting Rod and Staff 2 in grade 3, then doing English 3 in grade 4, and now half of English 4 in grade 5 with the other half to be done in grade 6). He's now in 5th grade, and his grammar is strong. It doesn't take me hours to get our language arts in every day either.

Any of the grammar programs that you listed will work, so I'd lean toward choosing one. The Queen's book is going to have the most overlap with what we already have scheduled within our guides. The Winston or CLE would be more grammar oriented and would fill the space allotted to Rod and Staff better. If you did decide to give Rod and Staff another try, I'd lean toward Rod and Staff 3 (at full-speed) or Rod and Staff 4 (at half-speed). We would also really encourage you to do much of the lesson orally, or on a whiteboard, only assigning one or two exercises to be done in writing each session.

Hope that helps!

Blessings,
Carrie

[8arrows]

Just agreeing, I would drop the Queen's (overlap) and use the CLE. You could use the Winston on Fridays or in the summer.

[my3good&perfectgifts]

Thanks to all of you for taking time to help. I don't feel as crazy, now that I know I'm not the only one to struggle with this. I'm still not sure what we will end up with, but it will be either R&S or CLE. I will put aside Language Lessons. I agree, it is very much like the things we are already doing in PHFHG. I hadn't thought to do Winston Grammar just on Fridays. That's a great idea, since we normally do a light load on Fridays. On the other hand, I may put it down until summer and use it to keep things fresh in my son's mind while we are on break. I like both of those suggestions. Thanks!

Can I ask one more question? If I use R&S, what should I use for spelling? My ds has very poor spelling. We have used BJU, and are now doing the spelling in CLE. Of course, we are doing the dictation in PHFHG. Is the dictation enough, even if my ds can't spell? Would it be wise to buy the Bigger guide and do the spelling from that? I already have the Beyond guide, is the spelling in Bigger the same, just with harder words?

Oh, how I wish we had found HOD when we first started this journey. I think all this time trying to find the right curriculum has not done my ds justice. On a positive note, I am thankful to have HOD now. This is the first time in 5 years I don't have to spend hours upon hours searching for next years books. I already know my boys will each move to the next HOD guide in the fall. My ds(7) and ds(2) will benefit greatly from what I have learned experimenting with my ds(10). Praise the Lord!!

[3musketeers]

Beth,

Please don't beat yourself up over your oldest sons different curriculums. I think that is the testimony of every oldest homeschooled child. My poor 10 year old has used BJU, MFW, Sonlight, Well-Trained mind, and the list goes on. The main thing is that our dc have been placed in our care by our dear Lord and He is overseeing their education. He knows our weakness and He fills in what we are lacking. Dc bounce back easily, so they will be ok. I feel the exact same way about HOD. I am so content with what we are doing for the first time in a long while. And ds's are loving it.

As for spelling. I am not the one to give advice, but I do have a link for you (below). I posted a while back because I was having trouble letting the spelling curriculum go (still am ). If your ds is doing the dictation in Preparing successfully, that should be enough even for a troubled speller. If he is finding the dictation in Preparing tough you could try the beginning spelling list in Bigger. But the dictation list in Bigger is the same as level 1 in Preparing.

I have a ds 8 in level 1 dictation and a ds 10 in level 3. I have seen my younger ds grow so much stronger in his spelling this year with dictation than ever before (my oldest is a natural speller). They also do SWO (which is overkill). I keep telling myself, "I will let it go, I will let it go." You are not alone in the figuring it all out game. I was smiling at Carries post because I didn't have time to list all our workbooks we used to use. We had similar issues going on here in years past.

Here is a link:

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5174&p=38002#p37928

Blessings,
Cindy

[3musketeers]

Beth,

I had originally tried to show the links again, but I'm deleting my links because Carrie has listed way better ones.

[Carrie]

Beth,

Spelling list 2 found within Beyond is the same as the list 2 in Bigger. Bigger also contains dictation passages for level 2,which are intended for use with children who are beyond the spelling list 2. Preparing Hearts contains dictation passages for levels 2, 3, and 4.

If you're currently using level 2 dictation passages and your son is making mistakes daily, then it would be a good idea to drop back and do spelling list 2 from Beyond (which is also list 2 in Bigger). If your son is on level 3 or above of the dictation passages and is struggling, it would be a good idea to back up to an easier level of dictation.

Another thing to check is whether or not you're getting a chance to do dictation the way we intended. Here is a link to a past thread that explains dictation more fully. It may be of help to you as you ponder. Link: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5186

While you can easily use another spelling program in addition to dictation, we've found that dictation has the best carryover for spelling (along with the habit of correct capitalization, punctuation, and usage) into a child's written work.

Here's more link that may be of help. Link: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1985
Link: viewtopic.php?f=12&t=1246

Blessings,
Carrie

[my3good&perfectgifts]

water2wine, 3musketeers, and Carrie,

Thank you for taking time to discuss these concerns with me. I have been reading your posts over the last 6 months or so, first as a guest, then I finally joined. You have all given great advice in many areas I have been watching. It is wonderful to be able to come to this board with my concerns and have the input of fellow homeschoolers. You are a very uplifting group of women, and I feel blessed to have found you.

Carrie, my ds is doing dictation level 3. We have only made it to #8, but we started out doing PHFHG half speed. We just started full speed about 4 weeks ago. He has figured out, if he writes any words he doesn't know before hand, he can remember the words when given the dictation passage. At first he missed a lot and took a long time to move from one passage to the next. Now, it only takes him 2 ot 3 tries. He misses the punctuation more than the spellling. When he writes creatively, he misspells LOTS of word. We have recently started DITHR and I have noticed, he doesn't acknowledge punctuation when he is reading. I think that is why he keeps missing the punctuation in dictation. It's like he doesn't see it. He reads very well, and comprehends everything he reads. So, I haven't been making him read aloud to me. I guess that was a mistake. Now I am having him read his DITHR book aloud so we can work on this problem. He also changes the sentence structure sometimes. Even though he hasn't read it before, it still makes sense the way he words it. We are working on that as well. Anyway, all that to say, thank you for the info. We will continue with the dictation on a daily basis. I think I will take away some of the grammar programs we are doing and add copywork. You all speak so highly of the dictation and copywork. It just seems to easy.

[Carrie]

my3good&perfectgifts,

Sometimes the simpler methods work better! Just seeing the words spelled correctly and having to focus on reproducing a dictation passage correctly (including capitalization, punctuation, and spelling) really makes kiddos stop and take note of each of those things. I agree that the areas you mentioned in DITHR are ones to work on too, doing it in consistent small chunks so as not to lead to discouragement.

Copywork is another thing that really causes a child to stop and take note of how things look when they're written correctly. When your son is doing his DITHR assignments, you may also want to have him orally talk through it while you take notes on a markerboard or paper, and then have him copy his words from your notes in his Student Book. This will also reinforce correct writing habits.

Blessings,
Carrie