Obedience- How to teach and nurture this in your children

[inHistiming]

I am coming to the board today with some questions. I have three children and have been a mother for almost 10 years. However, I find out every day that there are still so many things I do not know!

We recently moved to New york. We are enjoying our time here, but we know no one, have no family even remotely close by, and haven't really made any friends yet. We do have some neighbor girls who babysit for us occasionally. Anyway, I feel like my children and home are spiraling out of control! We homeschool, and they are each involved in one activity outside of the house during the week. I have trouble with obedience from them, especially my younger two. Lying and disobedience are BIG issues for one of them, and the other is also quick to disobey me. Today, because my youngest son did not go into his room to get his shoes on, and instead went into his older brother's room, we ended up with a broken window. He threw his brother's shoe at him and it busted the windowpane! I am shocked at the way our family is behaving. The goal of our homeschool, biblically, is based on Deuteronomy 6:4-9. We are endeavoring to teach them God's ways, how to obey Him, and how to love one another so that they will be equipped to cope in today's world. Where am I going wrong? I would appreciate any advice offered. Of course my husband and I will be talking and praying about this, but I know there must be some of you who have had some of the same experiences. Please leave any tidbits of information or discipline that you have had work for you in obedience training. Thanks in advance for the help!

[Melanie]

I don't have any good answers, and I truly believe everyone struggles with this to some degree at various times. I have several books that I turn to to "re-read" often when I feel we are "slipping" with FTO (first time obedience). I have loaned some of them out, but here are a few I can remember:
For Instruction in Righteousness (Dorpost)
Parenting IS Rocket Science
Your Mama Don't Dance
Home Improvement: 8 tools for effective parenting
Childwise
(I don't endorse everything is all these books, but have found nuggets of gold in each one. )
I also have the posters from Dorposts (If-then, and Blessing) and I also find good info on the website raisinggodlytomatoes.com (I think that's the right site).

As you can see from my list (and this is only what I can remember) I have really had to work on this parenting thing a LOT! Don't think you are alone. Remember the old expression "Admitting you have a problem is the first step", and just keep stepping, sister! I often write down lists for my kids and goals for myself just to keep us stepping in the right direction. Taking things (toys) away seems to be what motivaties them best, but I have a friend whose kids respond best when money is the motivator. The best advice I ever received is just to be consistent, consistent, consistent. Oh, and pray....with your kids, for your kids...always pray!

This is going to seem odd, but it was recommended on another site for a good character curriculum....reading the Rod and Staff story books. They are excellent for teaching values and morals without being "preachy". My kids love them and actually have used lessons from those stories in real life experienes. I also learn lessons from the "parenting" done in the stories.

Hope some of this is helpful. I struggle with this sooo much that it seems weird to try to help someone else!!
Melanie

[Tansy]

I know when we go on support raising trips (think 2weeks of non stop travel), I let some things slide. For example I don't make her eat all her salad. If she doesn't eat it, I just let it slide. When we get home My dd tests me over and over again. It takes about a month before she realizes she has to eat her salad again. She is sure one of these days I'll let up on the salad thing at home.

If you allow one thing to slip... from that point on your child has it in the back of thier mind. "it worked once maybe some day it will work again" And they will keep trying it 10 to 100 times just to make sure it still doesn't work
One thing I have tried sucessfully is "do unto them as they do unto you." it is the golden rule, sort of... say inoccently "This is how you treated me.. I thought you wanted to be treated like that too." I call it my Mom must be CRAZY form of dicipline.

here are some examples:
If I ask my dd if she will help me. And I get attitude "I don't want to... I want to play." I let her go back to what she was doing. "ok honi I understand".. but later on when she wants lunch. I respond with "I don't feel like making lunch I want to read my book." When she whines it not fair and she is hungry. I tell her there are carrots in a bag in the fridge... (not her favorite food). And NO! I do not make her lunch she is not going to starve by missing one meal. food is available its just not what she wants. Then we then talk about "wanting to" at dinner. It took about 3 times for her to figure out what was going on, and now decides to help when I say "ok honi you don't HAVE to help...."

If she fails to get her shoes on, on time she goes out to the car without shoes on. She may put them on in the car if she has them.
If she fails to clean her room in a timely manner (2 hours) stuff on the floor gets thrown out (yes I do warn her). She has TOO MUCH STUFF if she can't put it away in time. Really do they need all those happy meal prizes?

My dd went though a lying phase; after a couple of months she stopped lying, it was when I told her "Today I'm going to lie to you." She did not like getting cereal instead of pancakes, juice instead of milk ect. and by the time breakfast was over she had learned it not fun to be lied to, and we could go back to telling each other the truth. i was glad that didn't take very long...

And we have a saying in our house... "Everybody Obeys Somebody" I explain it like this... Daddy has to obey God, and his boss, Mommy has to obey God and Daddy, DD has to obey God, Daddy, and Mommy, and the dog has to obey God, Daddy, Mommy, and DD. (you can ask them as questions "who does daddy have to obey?" ect.) in the begining DD didn't think Daddy and Mommy had to obey anyone. She made up the dog bit and I think she liked seeing something has to obey her.

I don't give her 3 chances, to me that is a licence to disobey 3 times.
Now these are all the things I did when I was at the end of my rope. when time outs and other diciplines were no longer effective. It breaks my heart to throw away useful toys and clothing, but sometimes love has to be tough. I did tell you it is the "Mom Must Be CRAZY" form of dicipline.

[netpea]

It breaks my heart to throw away useful toys and clothing, but sometimes love has to be tough.

Absolutely, we do this one too. I threw out new toys they had only had a month or so because they wouldn't pick them up and I wanted to go out to the garbage and get them and sneak them back in. It was very very tough.

We are slowly pruning toys but they are "attached" to every toy they own. LOL.... I want them to volunteer some to donate but that doesn't seem to work so I have to pick some out when the kids are not home.

Lee Ann

[mn_kids]

The book that transformed our household was and still is Shepherding a Child's Heart by Tedd Tripp. I have probably read close to 15-20 parenting books and not one compares to this one. It is total Bible based and since we have implemented it, our house is much more peaceful. I am lifting you up now and hope you find the answer you are searching for. God bless!!

[Carrie]

I'm so glad that you have received such encouragement and good counsel from the ladies on the board already. I wanted to offer my words of encouragement too! With 4 boys at our house, I know where you're coming from.

As a child, I only had sisters, so having boys of my own has been an eye-opener for me. I've discovered that boys are naturally more rambunctious, and when they act out it is often in a physical way (which is more noticeable and sometimes destructive than the sneaky behavior my sisters and I tried when we were acting out).

For my boys it is imperative that we have some exercise time every day. We still have a late morning and afternoon recess. I tell them they will go outside every day unless it is raining or is way below zero. Otherwise, everyone goes out. If we must stay in, then we do jumping jacks, running in place, push-ups, sit-ups, or follow an exercise video such as Tae-bo. This helps so much with their ability to obey and to stay on task. If I skip the morning activity, the boys bog down or blow up in the afternoon.

I've also read and enjoyed many of the books listed by other posters on the board. "Shepherding a Child's Heart" was a favorite here too.

We do still work on first-time obedience and for us it is now more a problem of consistently reinforcing it, rather than allowing the behaviors to go unchecked until something big happens.

Also, it sounds like you've just had a move, which is probably leaving emotions running high and your schedule being disrupted. You need to allow yourself time to settle in after a move and to readjust to life. You may want to cut back on school and do half days for a week or so to give you time to deal with any discipline issues that may have cropped up due to a new routine, home, etc. I find I do better with discipline when I have time to discipline, and I'm not so hurried with school that I don't have any time to deal with the real issues.

Hope this helps encourage you! We're all in similar boats and have days like you described. I'm glad you found a place to share your joys and your struggles.

Blessings,
Carrie

[my3sons]

I can totally relate to what you are saying. I've got 3 boys, and my baby is in a very difficult stage right now, which adds stress all around. My husband is gone a lot, and that makes me even more tense at times. So, first of all, give yourself a break! You just moved, you're probably feeling quite alone in this all with no family around, and you're not getting out much. That being said... one of the great things about homeschooling (that seems not so great at first), is the fact that we have enough time with our children to see DAILY what it is they each need to work on. This is a blessing in disguise, isn't it?

I remember our pastor saying that children are just naturally sinful. He gave the example that he never went into his cherished book room and threw all of his books off the shelf on the floor. His 3 year old still did this and thought it was great fun, even though she never saw anyone modeling that behavior. This example has given me comfort when I am feeling depressed about some character trait we need to work on with our kids. So, it is not necessarily something YOU have done, or NOT done that is causing your children to behave that way.

That being said, Shepherding a Child's Heart was a great book, and would be worth a read. We also bought the set of Joy Berry books to read to our children. They are GREAT children's books that break down character traits in a way kids understand.

For a few quick fixes, here are my top "Heavenly Sevenly" (needed a nice name here):
1. The 5 min. rule: If I tell my children to do something, I stick around 5 min. to make sure it's happening. This is harder than it seems, because I honestly don't want to stick around. EXAMPLE: I say, "It's time for room and body checks. As always, you've got 20 min. until I check them." (room checks: making beds, picked up, etc.: body checks: teeth brush, clothes on, face washed, etc.). I stick around for 5 min. and see if they are actually doing these things in a timely enough fashion to be done.
2. Use the Timer: I set the timer a LOT. Kids do NOT get the passage of time. I use the timer religiously to teach new behaviors. We did the room and body checks daily in the summer, setting the timer always. Now, I only do the above 5 min. rule and rarely have to check their room/body because they are pretty much always done right.
3. Get the amount of time right: If I give them too much time to do a task, they begin goofing around. If I don't give them enough time, I go back on my word and give them more time than I originally said I would.
4. Plan down time: As Carrie said, kids need activity. I have a 45 min. playtime at the start of our day, a 45 min. recess in the middle (they MUST play outside a portion of it, unless it's HORRIBLE weather), and a LOT of play time at the end. They are motivated to get to these times, and I am too!
5. Take away what they love OR give them more of what they don't love: For my oldest, I take away snack/juice time or dessert (what can I say? he has my sweet tooth), OR I give him a chore to do that he doesn't particularly like. For my youngest, I take away play time with his brother, OR I give him more quiet time alone in his room.
6. Stick to doing school during school time: This is hard for ME. I want to flit off and call my friend, fold some laundry, send an email, etc. I have the best days when I hold off on doing these things until the planned "down time" I mentioned earlier. When I am focused on school, the kids are too.
7. Have some fun with school. When I give my full attention to the kids, smile, laugh, hug, do a little happy dance for them getting something right in school, they are happy to obey. When I have not been fully engaged with the kids, they will get my attention in any way possible - usually not in a good way.

I am to the end of my 45 min. down time - gotta go! But, I hope this can be of some help to you. Even on my best of days, I don't get all 7 of these right, but they're still my "Heavenly Sevenly" list of the way to have an ideal homeschool day!

[inHistiming]

Thanks so much to everyone who has replied to my desparate post! I needed the words of encouragement. We've been in our new town for about 3.5 months, so we're over the initial moving in, unpacking stuff. But I do think that everyone, mom included, is missing their friends and the regular activities we were used to in Florida. There's no going over to a friend's house or calling a friend to talk for any of us yet, and those were nice breaks for us. It's always interesting to realize how difficult it really is to make friends when you aren't in school and don't work outside the home. I am planning to re-evaluate our schedule over Thanksgiving break-we're taking a week in Georgia with family! I know I need to spend more time just talking to my kids and not always telling them what to do or what they didn't do right. And, we actually have Sherpherding Your Child's Heart on our bookshelf. We did the study at our church when my first child was about 2.5, so I would say it's time to read it again. I guess I know what I'll be doing to stay busy during the drive to GA! I have also read some of the information on the raising godly tomatoes site, and plan to re-visit that. I just want us to get back to where we have first time obedience, obviously because it's much more convenient for me! But also because the kids will be learning how to get along in society, and it will save them from much heartache if I can teach them now how to be teachable and listen to what I have to say. That way, they will know how to listen to God when he speaks to them through his word. I want that for my children more than anything! Again, thanks for all of the helpful tips and encouraging comments. It's nice to know that I'm not the only one who gets off track and has to re-direct.

[6timeboymom]

Families Where Grace is in Place
Jeff VonVonderen

Relational Parenting
Ross Campbell

Heartfelt Discipline
Clay Clarkson

Biblical Parenting
Pastor Crystal Lutton

Grace-Based Parenting
Tim Kimmel

How Would Jesus Raise a Child?
Dr. Teresa Whitehurst

Disciplining Children with Confidence: A Guide to Biblical Discipline
Grace P. Chou


These are all amazing resources. My go-to for parenting needs is Gentle Christian Mothers dot com.