Phonics Pros: Another Phonics question and "Beyond"

annaz · Post by **annaz** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 2:09 pm

Here's the scoop. We did LLATL Blue and just began LLATL Red. Let me say that I received LLATL Red the week I ordered HOD. We also did some workbook pages in ETC 3 along w/Blue book for practice. My dd likes ETC.

So you know where we're at, we haven't covered yet, words like "could, walk, the ea sound as a short vowel sound (but we have done the long sounds of vowel blends). She can read the Beginner's Bible, however she has some problems with some words, and I'm seeing her discouragement with it, so I'm ordering the Early Reader's Bible instead. I don't want to turn her off or dread reading.

Had I known about the LA/spelling portion of HOD, I probably wouldn't have ordered LLATL Red. Our other curriculum had no grammar or LA which is why I liked LLATL. One problem...we are in week 2 of LLATL Red and they are introducing common and proper nouns. I don't think my dd can't get it, but my question is isn't this a bit early? She's 7-1/2 and we work from the "old school"...learning to read in 1st and 2nd grade. LOL!

My thoughts are the following but we do HOD's emerging readers for both:

1)to do LLATL Red, dumping the LA/grammar portion & only continue w/the Phonics and use HOD's LA/spelling. Going back and starting short vowel spelling "tests" I think are a good review, OR

2)do ETC books 4, 5, 6 (we finished 3) and do HOD's LA/spelling to simplify things.

BUT..... I don't know what exactly is covered in Beyond's LA unless I read every day's lesson plan. Is there an overview of what is covered by week somewhere? I like that it has spelling and gentle intros to grammar. IMO I think HOD is more age appropriate w/the grammar than the LLATL Red. Do we really need proper and common nouns at the beginning of Grade 2? Aren't we usually emerging readers and we do this portion of grammar later after reading well? Just seems like there would be less frustration and less coverage if we start this at an age appropriate level.

Does anyone do just ETC w/HOD's LA? I'd also hate to skip LLATL Red's content if HOD's grammar isn't giving me what I think we should have, but I also want to simplify this portion of our schooling.

Any thoughts to this babble, and is there a scope and sequence for HOD's LA for Beyond somewhere?

blessedmomof4 · Post by **blessedmomof4** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 2:50 pm

No ideas, but if you look here:
http://www.heartofdakota.com/pdf/beyond ... -intro.pdf
and start on page 11 of the pdf file (titled "Learning the Basics Components") there is an overview of the language arts skills covered in Beyond.

annaz · Post by **annaz** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 3:12 pm

How can I be so dumb as to miss that? UGH..
What a dork.

I need to go over it and get back to you. However...I wonder why that in LLATL why we are covering common nouns, pronouns, etc on Lesson two when they haven't completed all the phonics yet. Is there a purpose? I could see studying plurals for spelling with "s" and studying past tense when working with "ed", but this seems rather intense for Lesson 2.

I'll go back to my hole now.

blessedmomof4 · Post by **blessedmomof4** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 3:15 pm

Don't feel dumb! The ONLY reason I knew about that is because I have spent an inordinate amount of time mooning over the programs I won't be able to ever use (unless God blesses me with another baby one day...)and poring over all the wonderful content I wish my kids had gotten to use

Melanie · Post by **Melanie** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 4:32 pm

OK...we are in the same boat! Here's what I'm gonna do...

Use Phonics Pathways to make sure we cover every single phonics/spelling rule that we didn't get with LLATL-blue.

Use the emerging readers for reading.

Use the grammar from Beyond, b/c I know we'll eventually cover everything necessary with R&S when we get there.

I don't see any reason why you can't use ETC, emerging readers, and Beyond grammar and just call yourself good!

Julie confirmed for me that this would work on another thread and if she says it...I'm good with it!

shera · Post by **shera** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 4:37 pm

Hey there Ann
I am using ETC books 4, 5, and 6 (that's what we have on the shelf for this yr) and HOD Beyond LA. I should probably think about getting the emerging readers since it seems every time I turn around Steven has a book in his face. We are using HOP readers and workbooks for readers since we already own them. I will lay out for you a typical day for LA, which I think is plenty.

Steven does a 2 pg spread of ETC and HOP unless HOP has a reader in which case it is just that.
Then we do the LA in Beyond, so spelling, whatever grammar they have.
Then he does copywork. I am not doing the poem copywork only because we will do the Bible, science, history and poetry from Beyond next yr. I do point out things like capitals and punctuation.

HTH
If you have any other questions just ask

Sarah

annaz · Post by **annaz** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 4:53 pm

Melanie wrote:OK...we are in the same boat! Here's what I'm gonna do...

Use Phonics Pathways to make sure we cover every single phonics/spelling rule that we didn't get with LLATL-blue.

Use the emerging readers for reading.

Use the grammar from Beyond, b/c I know we'll eventually cover everything necessary with R&S when we get there.

I don't see any reason why you can't use ETC, emerging readers, and Beyond grammar and just call yourself good! Julie confirmed for me that this would work on another thread and if she says it...I'm good with it!

I read the other post with interest. But I guess I didn't feel convicted w/what I wanted to do so I started this one instead. I love most of LLATL Red actually, but there is one thing about LLATL I don't love and it carries to Red....I don't need leaf rubbings (as an example) in my LA/phonics program. KWIM? LOL! I don't need Bible readings either, it's covered elsewhere. I really want to get to and finish Phonics before moving into all this grammar and it looks like HOD does that way moreso than LLATL. I mean HOD starts nouns on Unit 20! That is good!!! HOD seems more gentle and less in-your-face grammar as well. I don't want to skip phonics for a week to do 3 types of nouns! Let me finish one thing first, (olive says)!

So yes, we're in exactly the same boat. I'm just one of those people that think I have to use everything I own and I just know that I'm going to piece ETC's worksheets w/LLATL, dumping the grammar and using it w/HOD because I think I'm gonna miss something and that is exactly what I don't want to do! I'll sit in my office and go through all these books and make it come out just right. No, no, no! I'm not gonna do that. I just want ETC or LLATL w/HOD and I want everyone to tell me my kid's gonna get it without me wrecking her! Can't ask for more, right?

Sometimes I just wanna be a Betty and fly by the seat of my pants...and be okay with it!!!!.

Post by **Carrie** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 6:41 pm

annaz,

I'll just pop in to say that we did what you are suggesting in grade 2 which is use ETC books, the copywork, spelling lists, and the gentle grammar lessons in "Beyond...", and DITHR (because we were through the Emerging Readers set).

Then, we went into "Bigger..." in third and were all ready for the more formal grammar of Rod and Staff English 2. It has been a good fit, and we didn't feel like our little honey missed anything.

The way "Beyond..." approaches language arts is very Charlotte Mason-like, and even though it is deceptively simple it is doing the hard work of laying a firm foundation in the 3 R's. It focuses on seeing words spelled correctly and getting into the habit of copying correctly. It's also training kids in the habit of narration, or retelling, as a means to better comprehension.

Only you can know what fits your family best, and of course I am biased, but since I had a similar situation to yours, I thought I'd share!

Blessings,
Carrie

Melanie · Post by **Melanie** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 6:58 pm

I'm that exact same way, Ann! I think, ok...I bought this, now I absolutely must use it...

It's not altogether bad...you get to sample lots of stuff this way...

I also wish I could "fly by the seat of my pants". The big joke in our family is that if it doesn't go according to the plan, Melanie will freak out....there always has to be a plan.....

annaz · Post by **annaz** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:05 pm

I see that having our grammar such as in HOD separate from our phonics would be a good thing. Using LLATL as much as I like it would seem a better fit if we drop the grammar and only do the phonics. Because, then we aren't skipping phonics for grammar on a daily basis KWIM? We could get through a few phonics sounds per week as opposed to one. I don't think we should be behind in phonics just so we can learn about nouns our second week into 2nd grade. I would like that separation that HOD LA would give me.

So I'll have to debate on ETC or LLATL ( dropping grammar) or do the combo which is what I do now. LLATL would take some doing, leafing through it all and removing the grammar. ETC would be good because she likes it (but just worksheets gets boring after a while. ) and if we have a day that we need quick work due to an appointment, we can rip out a couple of ETC sheets and still be on track. LLATL is more involved.

Mmm...HOD is just working really well so far and continuing the LA portion would be good to do!!! Thanks for letting me think through this out loud. After Carrie's response, things should flow well too when we move to Bigger.