Singapore 1B issues with 7yo.

[Daisy]

We are on lesson 66 of Singapore 1B

The problems look like this...

47-12 =
43-17 =
61-13 =

My 7yo boy has no problem doing the first problem 47-12 = . He can do it in his head. He just writes down the answer.

The problem is with the other problems which require more mental work than he is able to do. I'm not really sure (since I'm not using a TM) if I should be having him do these problems with manipulatives or mentally? If he can use manipulatives then great, he's on track. If they expect mental math or a knowledge of traditional borrowing then we are in the dark.

I'm trying to decide if I should continue him in Singapore 2A and 2B in the fall or if I should step back and do a mix of R&S Math 2 and Singapore Practice 1. R&S Math 2 would help him memorize his math facts to 20 (he doesn't have these down at all. As a matter of fact he still has to think does he want to count up, count down, using fingers, etc.) and the Singapore Practice Book 1 would keep up his Singapore "thinking". I already own all of it because I used R&S Math 2 when my daughter was in 2nd grade.

Then in THIRD grade I'd start him on 2A & 2B

OR should we just keep plugging along, taking our time and adding in more practice?

Any thoughts?

[spidermansmum]

Im using 1b and use a variety of manipulatives if we need to.I think I have the manual somewhwere - do you want me to look it up?

[Daisy]

Only if it is handy. They start out with a visual for the first problem and them all the rest are just listed as problems. It is hard for me to know.

I bumped my 9yo all the way back to 2B when we started with Singapore this last year and she did all of it mentally. I'm not sure that is normal, what was expected, or if she just did it that way because it was review for her.

Is there any expectation that the child will memorize their facts to 20? I know they want them to kind of visualize base ten. My son is not doing this without manipulatives. And yet with manipulatives, it almost seems too easy.

[WigglesMom]

I would get the home instructor's guides. I feel that if you don't know the Singapore method that you can't really teach it and without the instructor's guide you don't get the method behind the madness if you know what I mean. I love R&S also. We have done the R&S 2 before and it really helps cement the facts. I would get the HIG for Singapore before shelving it and see if it helps. If it doesn't help you to know how to help your child with Singapore or even how they expect your child to work the problem, then I would switch to R&S.
Val

[Daisy]

He only has about 20 pgs left of 1B. And actually he finished that hard section today. Now he is off and doing money which is a piece of cake for him.

In the fall, I had planned on starting him in 2A with the Bigger lesson plans. Just wanting to make sure he can handle it. He is seven but the wiggliest 7yo you ever saw. He will figure out the answer with the manipulatives and then promptly forget what it was because he started building with the blocks. So he has to do it AGAIN from the beginning with the manipulatives one step at a time. AGHGHGHGH. I can look at him and say, "What are you supposed to be doing?" He'll reply, "Uhhhh, I don't know?"

[sharonb]

I'm in a very similar situation to yours. My 7yo dd is on about lesson 45 of Singapore 1B. She is also on about lesson 27 of R&S 2nd grade math. I have been struggling with this for weeks- which program should we use? Or can we use both? I'm having trouble letting go of either of them! So, I'm interested in following how things go for you (I read your blog too). If it were up to dd, we'd do Singapore. She is bored with R&S right now, but I suspect that's because she's still in the review unit.

[WigglesMom]

LOL! I have a very wiggly ds6 (7 in December). He is so unfocused. I honestly don't think he can help himself when he decides to take counters and blocks and make something from Star Wars or such out of them and make his pencil the good guy or bad guy. Sometimes it is a joy to see his wonderful imagination and sometimes I just wish he would finish the page.
With my dd7, we quit with the manipulatives and started using a math facts slider. She was learning the facts as she looked up the answer without any manipulatives to change her focus. She is doing 2a in BHFHG now and never has to use the math facts slider.
When ds6 gets to the addition and subtraction in 1a/1b we will again use our scooby doo math facts finder. It works wonders and is still kind of fun. This was a great transition from manipulatives to actually knowing the math facts without the drill, drill, drill philosphy and without flashcards.
Val

[Daisy]

Math Facts Slider??? What is this? Do you have a picture or link?

[WigglesMom]

Hi!
It is actually a Scooby Doo Math Facts Finder. I don't know where I got slider. I got it out of my dd's cubby and it says finder oops. http://www.ezgrader.com/sets/set.asp?id=GB002
I bought mine from ez grader and it is the best thing I have ever bought for math.
Val

[Daisy]

Those look like fun!

[spidermansmum]

Found the guide book- for lesson 66
It has pictures of lots of cubes ,with the ones that are taken away coloured in another colour and the cubes are grouped into columns of tens and the remainder are loose .It s the equivalent of having lots of lego bricks {?].You first subtract the 10's and then the ones,so I am assuming teaching ' 43 -17' would look like this- there be 4 columns of tens cubes and seven loose cubes- and then you would show them that you take away the group of ten and then seven more .Im usuing 1B and am happy to use manipulatives ,so I hope that is not a sign he is not working to that level.We are on 1B part one so a bit behind you]We made a giant numberline[we had a big box of the old style computer paper- lsquares of paper joined together with the holes down the sides ]and we have Nathan jump back the squares ,I have a good sized jar of gumballs ,lego bricks and a hundred square we use if we need to

[WigglesMom]

Im usuing 1B and am happy to use manipulatives ,so I hope that is not a sign he is not working to that level.

I think manipulatives are great when they are learning their math and math facts. I don't think it is a sign he isn't working on level. I chose to move to the math facts finder when the girls were expected to know the math facts by memory and regrouping and hard addition and subtraction were needed. I started using them in 3rd grade with them.

[my3sons]

The problem is with the other problems which require more mental work than he is able to do. I'm not really sure (since I'm not using a TM) if I should be having him do these problems with manipulatives or mentally? If he can use manipulatives then great, he's on track. If they expect mental math or a knowledge of traditional borrowing then we are in the dark.

I'm trying to decide if I should continue him in Singapore 2A and 2B in the fall...

Hi Daisy! You'll either need to do the Textbook or the hands-on math lessons in the Beyond Guide because the Workbook on its own is not enough for dc to understand the Singapore way of doing things. Once you begin 2A/2B, you can use your Bigger Hearts hands-on math plans, and those will really help ds. They were the turning point for my ds in knowing his facts well. Yes - with Singapore they do learn their facts well - but it just takes a bit of time for that to happen. After my ds finished 2A/2B, I had him do math flashcards in the summer before beginning 3A/3B, but we quickly put the flashcards away when I realized he knew them. Singapore is a slow burn - if you add the Textbook or hands-on HOD instruction, I'm sure you'll begin to see a change in ds, and I do think he'll be ready for 2A/2B because of the way it is taught in Bigger Hearts. HTH!

In Christ,
Julie

[Daisy]

Sorry, I wasn't clear. We are using the Singapore Textbook just not HOD's lesson plans or the Singapore Instruction manuals.

I just wasn't clear if Singapore expects continued use of manipulatives through the entire exercise. In other words do you use manipulatives to demonstrate the concept but then expect them to finish out the problems using mental skills. It appears that isn't the case (nice to hear).

I've used Singapore all along with Ryan but not having an instruction manual still throws me for a loop sometimes. My hubby teaches ps first grade and there is an expectation that they'll have a goodly number of their math facts to 20 memorized by the end of the year so I wasn't sure.

[water2wine]

Daisy I am not sure what Singapore expects but we did this just by counting my tens and making up the difference. It is just what makes sense to my head. So we have 43-17 = then I say 43 to 33 is ten 33 to 23 is another ten can we go three tens (and I will say what are three tens then get answer 30) the answer is no so we have how many left over from 17 to 23 and my poor tortured kid can follow that, hahaha! OK but seriously I would not let that section throw you off Singapore. I have never seen anything like what happens to kids that start out with Singapore so I really would encourage you to stay with it. R&S will never give him quite the same thing as Singapore can. I really think it is the bomb in math. They just learn things like multiplying and dividing before they have any idea what they are doing it just comes to them and fractions seem to come easy too. It's worth sticking with even if you have a hiccup.