The challenge with three, 2 vs 3 HOD programs

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threegreatkids
Posts: 259
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 12:41 pm

The challenge with three, 2 vs 3 HOD programs

Post by threegreatkids » Sun Jul 05, 2009 7:22 pm

This might seem like a wierd question. We have three kids, and while they really get along well on the whole (extremely well compared to many siblings we know) we do sometimes see that the dynamic is tricky with three.
My girls share a room, have lots of similar interests, share friends, and have always used the same "core" homeschool curriculum. Sometimes ds feels a bit left out, and he has BEGGED us for a brother for the past 4 years.
Bear with me...this really isn't off topic.
So...before our switch to HOD our plan with our previous curriculum would have been to fold little brother into the family cycle when he reached 2nd grade next year. I was at the beach this afternoon watching the kids play (with some friction, partially because they were up until 11 pm watching fireworks last night) and I suddenly thought, "Oh no! With our current HOD plan ds will always be on his own and his sisters will always be together!"
Now I'm still excited about HOD and pretty convinced that we're here to stay :D But I'm beginning to wonder if I should actually consider doing 3 HOD programs. That way everyone would be doing their own program and it wouldn't feel like one was left out.
I'm already adding extensions and separate math and language arts for oldest. Would it be that much harder to just have her do a completely different program?
Or we could continue on with our plan for this coming year (Little/Bigger/Bigger w/ ext) and then the following year zoom oldest up to CtC. She currently places squarely in Preparing and so since we will be working on Rod & Staff 3, Written Narrations and independent work with the Extension pack I assume she would be OK to move ahead to CtC.
What a ramble! This may not make any sense at all, since I was up way too late last night, too :) But I'd really appreciate any thoughts about family unity with three kiddos and how HOD fits in. Thanks!
Mom of three great kids
7th grade dd, 6th grade dd, 4nd grade ds

mommyofgirls
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Re: The challenge with three, 2 vs 3 HOD programs

Post by mommyofgirls » Sun Jul 05, 2009 8:48 pm

i can't offer much advice in helping you decide, but i will say, i know EXACTLY how you feel. i have a 5, 3 and 1 year old and i thought about doing something different for my 5 yo this year so they could both do little hearts together next year...but then i thought, "but, the baby would always be on her own!" so, i changed my mind. something carrie said in response to one of my post's stuck out to me. she said she likes to have all of her kids doing their own guide book because she finds it refreshing to have each kid at EXACTLY their level and it actually requires less tweaking (work) for her. i see how this could be true. also, i am convinced that we, as mothers, feel so guilty about so many things that if you can, with minimal heartache, do one thing to alleviate your guilt load, then go for it! if having them all on different levels (regardless of how silly or not silly someone else might think this is) helps you sleep at night, then i say it is a good decision. a mother free of guilt is a better mother any way you look at it. :D (just my inexperienced opinion :lol: )
Wife to my wonderful husband for 8 years
dd5 - LHFHG, Abeka phonics, Horizons math
dd3 - LHTH
dd1 - bringing me Brown Bear, Brown Bear What Do You See? and sitting in my lap :)

sted
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Re: The challenge with three, 2 vs 3 HOD programs

Post by sted » Sun Jul 05, 2009 9:14 pm

I'm planning on doing Little Hands /Beyond/Bigger and Bigger with Extensions this year (to cover American History). I, too, am hoping to "zoom" my oldest to CTC next year and have the middle do Preparing. Probably depends on the child. Not sure about the third, I don't know if she will do Bigger or tag along with Preparing. Hopefully this time next year the plan will come clear. I just want to get the materials and get started to get a better sense of the program.

Shannon
dd, age 14
dd, age 12
dd, age 10
ds, age 8
dd, age 5
dd, age 1

gotpeace91
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Re: The challenge with three, 2 vs 3 HOD programs

Post by gotpeace91 » Sun Jul 05, 2009 9:17 pm

I think what you say makes total sense! If you can afford another program and can figure out the schedule for 3 programs I think it would be neat. Also, their ages would be exactly in the middle of the age range for the guides. :)
~Leah
Wife to the Man I Love since 1994
DS 15 Missions to Modern Marvels
DD 14 Resurrection to Reformation

lmercon
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Location: Zieglerville, PA

Re: The challenge with three, 2 vs 3 HOD programs

Post by lmercon » Mon Jul 06, 2009 6:22 am

Here's another thought that may work well or not be even close - depends on your situation. You could use Beyond with your 6 & 8 year yo dc. You could use the right side of Bigger for the 8 yo if you need a higher level in the skill areas. Then do Preparing with your oldest. With this formation, you have a sibling working with the one who is generally more isolated and have your oldest more on track with where she should be. Depending on the skills of your 6 & 8 yos, this may or may not be plausible.
Just a suggestion,
Laura
Wife to a great guy and mommy to:
Ds(15) - using WG and loving it!
Dd(11) - using Res.to Ref and having a blast!
Ds (3) - our joy!
Two little ones in the arms of Jesus - I can't wait to hold you in Heaven!

water2wine
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Location: GA

Re: The challenge with three, 2 vs 3 HOD programs

Post by water2wine » Mon Jul 06, 2009 8:08 am

Ok coming from a mom of six who has five girls and one boy I completely understand what you are talking about. To add to my boy situation he is adopted and has some behavioral issues that require a lot of attention along with his I am the only boy and everything in the world is about all these girls around here that I am getting sick of getting all my attention. :lol: So having said that I would highly recommend doing HOD as it fits best by the placement chart and if possible getting it to two programs. I understand three is doable but it is more than two and with a few kids added in there it's going to add a lot especially kids so close in age that are not as independent as the program warrants. That would be my opinion of course and you need to do what is best for your family. :D

An alternative suggestion would be something that I have found really helped us. Ask dh if he will do a daily devotional just with ds even if you have a family one you do a one on one with ds will help tremendously for the issue you describe. Another thing that you might consider is adding something that is extra and just for him. Some suggestions might be Door Post Plants Grown up, some of the Pearbales things for boys are also excellent or consider The Young Man's Handybook Preparing Your Son for The Homefront by Mrs. Gail Kappenman. Just something that is just for him, not about anything that is girl related and take him aside one on one and have a boy time. I have found the combination of a devotional with dh and something just me with him in one of these type things I listed (all of which I have :D ) and stocking my school room with boy books like The book for Dangerous boys and some of the Field Handybooks from long ago. Also if your son has a hobby that is just his or could do something like scouts that would also be a great thing. My son likes legos or really it is more of an obsession so we help him enter contests and things like that just him. The girls do play with legos but it is really his thing. Daily he is constructing something for us to be impressed with and of course we are. :D You get the idea. Anyway I suggest these kinds of things because doing three programs might be a temporary fix but running the programs off their idea level I think is going to add an extra aspect of difficulty to that running three programs that is not intended in HOD. It would be far easier and for us we find it better to just add some things that are boy only. Hope something here helps and praying for your decision. :D
All your children shall be taught by the LORD, and great shall be the peace of your children. Isaiah 54:13
~Six lovies from God~4 by blessing of adoption
-MTMM (HS), Rev to Rev, CTC, DITHR
We LOVED LHFHG/Beyond/Bigger/Preparing/CTC/RTR/Rev to Rev (HS)

my3sons
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Location: South Dakota

Re: The challenge with three, 2 vs 3 HOD programs

Post by my3sons » Mon Jul 06, 2009 10:31 am

I can totally see what you are saying here. We have 3 dc, and though they are all boys, three can sometimes just be a hard number. If two choose something together, the other one sometimes feels left out. You've gotten some great advice to consider from the ladies. Here are a few things that I think are great things to consider...

Mommmyofgirls said...
Something Carrie said in response to one of my post's stuck out to me. She said she likes to have all of her kids doing their own guide book because she finds it refreshing to have each kid at EXACTLY their level and it actually requires less tweaking (work) for her.

We have found this to be true. Once I did all the tweaking I'd need to do to keep our dc together, it truly would have been easier just to have them in separate programs. So, that is why I am teaching them separately. However, all of my dc are each 3+ years apart.

water2wine said...
I would highly recommend doing HOD as it fits best by the placement chart and if possible getting it to two programs. I understand three is doable but it is more than two and with a few kids added in there it's going to add a lot especially kids so close in age that are not as independent as the program warrants.
I think this is key. The placement chart makes our lives so much easier - if we place dc accurately, their whole year (and ours) goes better.

Laura gave an interesting alternative, which would certainly work too. Beyond for the 6-8 yo's, subbing in Bigger Hearts right side for LA/math for 8 yo, and PHFHG for 9 yo. That would break up the girl duo and include your ds with middle dd.

So, with all of this being said, I think that because your dc are so close in age - all just 3 years apart - I think I'd take another look at the placement chart and do 2 programs, however that would best fit the 3 of them. Then, as water2wine suggested, I'd add in a "boy" type time, however you could do so - with dh helping or with dd's doing some boyish things with him too. One thing that has worked for us is having each child choose a playtime thing, and then having them all play that thing for 30 minutes each. So, Wyatt chooses baseball and everyone plays baseball for 30 minutes (cheerfully and to the best of their ability - I even sometimes try to pitch, so you can imagine how the standard of excellence is not that high :lol: ). Riley usually chooses cars, and everyone plays that then for 30 minutes, etc. When we play with the cousins, some choose board games, magic tricks set, etc. This is a good way to make sure everyone gets to play their favorite thing on a day to day basis, and everyone must enjoy playing that thing with them. I usually don't play these things with them, but once and awhile I help if it's with a sport they could use a pitcher for. HTH! :D

In Christ,
Julie
Enjoyed LHTH to USII
Currently using USI
Wife to Rich for 28 years
Mother to 3 sons, ages 23, 20, and 16
Sister to Carrie

threegreatkids
Posts: 259
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 12:41 pm

Re: The challenge with three, 2 vs 3 HOD programs

Post by threegreatkids » Mon Jul 06, 2009 3:44 pm

Oh my, what a BLESSING you all are! I've been thinking and praying and reading your responses and looking at the catalog and manuals all day and you have all helped so very much!!!!
I'm encouraged to know that we are not alone in sorting through this issue, and I love the ideas for non-curriculum things that might help my little guy...one-on-one time, etc. And thanks for pointing out both the benefits and drawbacks of doing 3 HOD programs in our situation...I needed that :) I also really appreciated the suggestion to group the younger two...hadn't even considered that! Unfortunately middle child already did MFW Adventures which would make Beyond a bit tough.
So, I'll tell you where my thinking is right now and I welcome any comments :D It is so helpful to bounce ideas around with this wonderful group!
I think we will stick with our current plan for this coming year. My kids place perfectly into LHFHG/BHFHG/PHFHG right now, but for oldest I've already planned to use Bigger's extensions, teach written narration, and use R&S 3. As far as I can tell this will challenge her nicely and allow her to grow in much the same way as if she were doing PHFHG. And it will have us doing only 2 main programs for our first HOD year.
Also, my ds is a perfect fit for LHFHG as far as reading/writing/math skill level goes, but his listening, comprehension and observation skills are far ahead of his age. (He's been listening in on chapter read-alouds since he was 2. We though he was playing blocks and lo and behold he could talk about all sorts of things from what I was reading to his sisters.) So...I will invite him to listen in on the history, science and storytime parts of Bigger this year! That will keep him included and challenged. Plus, since we only school 4 days a week I can relax about LHFHG and Beyond (which might take almost 3 years) and potentially skip Bigger down the road if that seems like a good idea.
Then next spring I will take a good hard look at where everyone is and strongly consider 3 programs. At that point kiddos will be going into 2nd, 4th and 5th grades and I'm thinking that Beyond, Preparing and CtC would fit their needs perfectly with absolutely no tweaking! CtC looks like quite an independent program, so it would be easier to juggle 3 at that point and I'm pretty sure oldest would thrive with the level of independence. We will have a year of HOD under our belts and 3 programs might be more doable. I might use the Preparing Storytime titles for all 3 kiddos that year, since the CtC History Read-Alouds might be a bit much for oldest, who is quite sensitive to violence.
What do you think?????
Last edited by threegreatkids on Mon Jul 06, 2009 3:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Mom of three great kids
7th grade dd, 6th grade dd, 4nd grade ds

threegreatkids
Posts: 259
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 12:41 pm

Re: The challenge with three, 2 vs 3 HOD programs

Post by threegreatkids » Mon Jul 06, 2009 3:54 pm

Just a question for water2wine...could you explain this a little more? It sounds important so i don't want to miss it but I think my brain is tired. I don't know what "off their idea level" means :oops: :

"Anyway I suggest these kinds of things because doing three programs might be a temporary fix but running the programs off their idea level I think is going to add an extra aspect of difficulty to that running three programs that is not intended in HOD."

Thanks for your helpful thoughts!!!!!
Mom of three great kids
7th grade dd, 6th grade dd, 4nd grade ds

8arrows
Posts: 965
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Re: The challenge with three, 2 vs 3 HOD programs

Post by 8arrows » Mon Jul 06, 2009 4:36 pm

As a mother of 8, I would always say combine where you can! Boys are different than girls anyway. I like water2wine's idea of special extras for your son. You could also assign playtime for each daughter separately with your son while you teach the other girl her math and English (or later in the day if you prefer) to encourage special sibling time.
Melissa, wife to Jim for 28 years
3 graduated, 2 using US 2, 8th grade dd using Missions to Marvels
Isaiah 40:11 ...He gently leads those that have young.

water2wine
Posts: 2743
Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2007 7:24 pm
Location: GA

Re: The challenge with three, 2 vs 3 HOD programs

Post by water2wine » Mon Jul 06, 2009 5:27 pm

threegreatkids wrote:Just a question for water2wine...could you explain this a little more? It sounds important so i don't want to miss it but I think my brain is tired. I don't know what "off their idea level" means :oops: :

"Anyway I suggest these kinds of things because doing three programs might be a temporary fix but running the programs off their idea level I think is going to add an extra aspect of difficulty to that running three programs that is not intended in HOD."

Thanks for your helpful thoughts!!!!!

Hahaha it means I am sick with a fever and can't type. :D I think it was supposed to be ideal level meaning ideal placement. What I was trying to say is that it is harder to adjust things when you are over their head down then it is to beef it up when it is below their level and if you get too far ahead of their placement it makes the program harder to teach. That might not be making sense either. I tend to think ahead to what having them in a program this year means for next year. Just ignore me. :lol: But it was a typo just to explain.
All your children shall be taught by the LORD, and great shall be the peace of your children. Isaiah 54:13
~Six lovies from God~4 by blessing of adoption
-MTMM (HS), Rev to Rev, CTC, DITHR
We LOVED LHFHG/Beyond/Bigger/Preparing/CTC/RTR/Rev to Rev (HS)

threegreatkids
Posts: 259
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 12:41 pm

Re: The challenge with three, 2 vs 3 HOD programs

Post by threegreatkids » Mon Jul 06, 2009 6:15 pm

Water2wine,
Oh, i get it :lol: Thanks, and hope you feel better! So in other words it would be much harder if i were to push a child ahead of their abilities, right? I'd like to enlarge that wonderful HOD placement chart and frame it, to keep myself on track :)
Mom of three great kids
7th grade dd, 6th grade dd, 4nd grade ds

water2wine
Posts: 2743
Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2007 7:24 pm
Location: GA

Re: The challenge with three, 2 vs 3 HOD programs

Post by water2wine » Mon Jul 06, 2009 8:44 pm

Exactly. It is harder if they are ahead of their abilities to tailor it but if they are below it is easy to beef up if need be. :D
All your children shall be taught by the LORD, and great shall be the peace of your children. Isaiah 54:13
~Six lovies from God~4 by blessing of adoption
-MTMM (HS), Rev to Rev, CTC, DITHR
We LOVED LHFHG/Beyond/Bigger/Preparing/CTC/RTR/Rev to Rev (HS)

my3sons
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Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2007 7:08 pm
Location: South Dakota

Re: The challenge with three, 2 vs 3 HOD programs

Post by my3sons » Tue Jul 07, 2009 9:03 am

threegreatkids wrote:...I think we will stick with our current plan for this coming year. My kids place perfectly into LHFHG/BHFHG/PHFHG right now, but for oldest I've already planned to use Bigger's extensions, teach written narration, and use R&S 3. As far as I can tell this will challenge her nicely and allow her to grow in much the same way as if she were doing PHFHG. And it will have us doing only 2 main programs for our first HOD year.
I think this plan makes total sense, and fits all of your dc's needs very well. Starting with 2 HOD programs will help you see if you want to do 3 the next year, or if you'd rather continue with 2, which would be fine otherwise. :D
threegreatkids wrote:Also, my ds is a perfect fit for LHFHG as far as reading/writing/math skill level goes, but his listening, comprehension and observation skills are far ahead of his age. (He's been listening in on chapter read-alouds since he was 2. We though he was playing blocks and lo and behold he could talk about all sorts of things from what I was reading to his sisters.) So...I will invite him to listen in on the history, science and storytime parts of Bigger this year! That will keep him included and challenged. Plus, since we only school 4 days a week I can relax about LHFHG and Beyond (which might take almost 3 years) and potentially skip Bigger down the road if that seems like a good idea.
LHFHG sounds like a great fit for your ds, and I think it's a good idea to have him listen in on the BHFHG Storytime titles and discussion for sure. The rest of Bigger Hearts, you can see what you think about him listening in on that. I would say if his listening in on the rest of it will lean you in the direction of skipping BHFHG down the road, I would not have him listen in. The reason I say this, is BHFHG is a turning point in dc's learning. It is (IMO) a foundational guide for teaching LA skills that dc will need to be proficient at in the rest of the HOD guides. Many new skills are taught in BHFHG - it was a big "growing up" year for my ds, and he needed it to be ready for PHFHG. For example, oral narrations are taught very thoroughly in BHFHG, in PHFHG, it's assuming dc have had some experience with that and are quite proficient at it already. BHFHG teaches how to do vocabulary cards for the first time too - which involves many important LA skills - i.e. finding the word in the history book, looking at the word in its context, guessing at its meaning, looking it up in the dictionary to see which definition best fits, and then creating a card with all of this information and filing in alphabetically. These are just some of the fundamental skills that come to mind - there are more I won't get into. We just completed our standardized testing a couple months ago, and reference materials and reading comprehension were 2 pretty difficult sections on the test. That's just one more reason I think it is super important to do Bigger Hearts with dc - plus, it's such an awesome program and teaches about American history biographically, which is different than anything else out there!
threegreatkids wrote: Then next spring I will take a good hard look at where everyone is and strongly consider 3 programs. At that point kiddos will be going into 2nd, 4th and 5th grades and I'm thinking that Beyond, Preparing and CtC would fit their needs perfectly with absolutely no tweaking! CtC looks like quite an independent program, so it would be easier to juggle 3 at that point and I'm pretty sure oldest would thrive with the level of independence. We will have a year of HOD under our belts and 3 programs might be more doable. I might use the Preparing Storytime titles for all 3 kiddos that year, since the CtC History Read-Alouds might be a bit much for oldest, who is quite sensitive to violence.
What do you think?????
This makes total sense to me, and you will be in a better position to make this decision then. I do think it would be just fine to do the PHFHG Storytime titles for all your dc at that point, or for your ds, you could choose a different Storytime from whatever guide he's in at that point if you wanted too. :D

I do soooooo love a great plan coming together, and that is what you have done here! :D I can't wait for you to start HOD. It is such a great way to spend our days homeschooling our dc. I am getting ready to start CTC, finish BLHFHG, and do LHTH this coming year - and I am getting pretty excited myself. It will be fun to hear about your year! HTH! :D

In Christ,
Julie
Enjoyed LHTH to USII
Currently using USI
Wife to Rich for 28 years
Mother to 3 sons, ages 23, 20, and 16
Sister to Carrie

threegreatkids
Posts: 259
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 12:41 pm

Re: The challenge with three, 2 vs 3 HOD programs

Post by threegreatkids » Tue Jul 07, 2009 11:26 am

Julie,
Thanks for your encouraging words...I'm beginning to feel like you (and so many other kind ladies on this board) are old friends :D
Just one question about skipping Bigger. I can totally see what you are saying about Bigger being important! The more I look at the manual I am just amazed at the beautiful way in which important skills are woven into this program in such an enjoyable way. But if I were to have ds (turned 6 in the spring, going into 1st grade) do all of LHFHG, BLHFHG and BHFHG (all of which are 5 day programs) just 4 days a week it would would take about 3 3/4 school years. So he would be doing Preparing in 5th grade, which is fine but then I'd need to add Extensions even though he would be the only one doing the program, which seems a bit unusual. Am I correct that usually extensions are to bump up the level for older when combining 2 dc? Would it be better to skip Beyond? Or should i have skipped LHFHG (which fits so perfectly right now)? What about skipping Bigger (if he's alredy listened in a bit) but adding R&S 2 and Cheerful Cursive during his 3rd grade year while finishing Beyond?
Thanks again! I don't want to ask so many questions that I become a pest, but I am a planning kind of gal :oops:

P.S.I just received my copy of the GHILLM devotional book...it looks so great! I'm trying to make myself wait to really start it until we begin school, since it looks like the perfect way to begin my mornings during our school year. I may have to have dh hide it until late August :lol:
Last edited by threegreatkids on Tue Jul 07, 2009 7:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Mom of three great kids
7th grade dd, 6th grade dd, 4nd grade ds

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