Waiting on recommending Teaching Textbooks...

[Carrie]

I really agree with you on age making a huge difference in a kiddo's readiness to do Algebra. I guess I'm thinking that most students would finish 6A/6B in grade 7, as pretty often it seems that students are not doing the matching level of Singapore for their grade level. Then, students would go on to Algebra (or Pre-Algebra) in grade 8.

You are right, though, that mathy kiddos could finish Singapore 6A/6B in grade 6 (if they started with Singapore from the beginning). So, we wouldn't recommend for those kiddos to do Algebra I in grade 7, although I know some people do! I'm thinking of doing Algebra I in grade 8 at the earliest, and also agree that waiting until grade 9 for Algebra I would most likely be better for many kiddos.

It's good to hear that you liked the Home Instructor's Manuals for 5A/5B and 6A/6B. We haven't found the need for them prior to those levels. Thanks for sharing your wisdom.

Blessings,
Carrie

[moedertje]

I am very glad to have read and be informed on TT, since I was under the impression to switch to that in later years.
I currently use MUS Alpha and I have been doing your Math Explorations as well without the workbook. I recently decided to get the Singapore 1A and 1B and do the pages as well. My son loves doing the math pages!
I find that up to now MUS Alpha and Prim Math 1A only enhance each other and it just gives extra reinforcement since they touch on the subjects at different times.
What is your thought on doing these two programs at the same time, since I am big on the fact that I like the way MUS is a spiraling program and I am a bit nervous teaching math?
Have you given any thought to using MUS after you are done with Singapore in 6A/6B? Why or why not?
Thank you for your time and effort and thank you for your great support.

[Carrie]

moedertje,

In the younger years, it's not a problem to use one math program as a supplement to another. As kiddos get older, however, it can get to be pretty time-consuming to do that. So, you'll want to stick with one main program at that point.

As far as Teaching Textbooks goes, we haven't made any firm decisions yet. We have heard good things about the Teaching Textbooks Geometry, so it is for the Algebra I and II that we will most likely choose a different math path to follow.

We have looked into Math-U-See for the upper years, and feel that there are better options for the high school years that we would recommend first. Math-U-See appears to rely heavily on the blocks used in their program and doesn't seem to make the shift as easily to higher level problem-solving.

I did want to update this thread to say that we have since ordered and taken a much closer look at Kinetic Books Algebra I. We found that while it is very thorough in its explanations, it is a bit overwhelming in content and also in its liberal use of math vocabulary (to the point of making a simple equation seem difficult to solve). The printed copy of the text is actually as thick as a telephone book with a very small font. While the print copy is not actually necessary to make the program function, we did find that the number of problems expected to be completed is very excessive. It would require a discerning parent to determine how many problems should be assigned out of the very large problem set each day.

We have also ordered the VideoText sampler and printed off the corresponding lessons that go along with that program. At this point, we find VideoText to be easier to follow than Kinetic Books, with a better system of checks each day to make sure the child is truly understanding the concepts. Video Text certainly isn't flashy, and I know my son will miss the tongue-in-cheek humor of Teaching Textbooks. However, the math presentation in VideoText is very solid, and students take a short quiz each day to make sure they've retained the material BEFORE moving on to the lesson.

The explanations on the DVD's are very thorough and make a lot of sense (even for the non-mathy parent or for a parent who hasn't had Algebra in 20 years like me!) Students work 10-11 problems each day, and if they don't pass their quiz, they work the other half of the problems the next day (after watching the DVD lesson again). There is a help-line for kiddos who don't pass a quiz after 2 tries, and additional problems available on the website for each lesson if needed. Last, there is a line-by-line solutions manual for ALL problems, meaning kiddos are responsible for error analysis of each problem to see where they went wrong.

Much of this program can be done quite independently, although I think it will be a good idea to watch the DVD Lessons with my son (as they are each only 5-10 min. long). At this point, we are leaning in the VideoText direction for next year. I'll link you to the professional reviews for this product from people I definitely respect as to their professional opinion: http://www.videotext.com/testimonials.htm#prof

We are continuing to order and research other math options in order to make a choice for next school year for our own son.

Blessings,
Carrie

[Mom2Monkeys]

Carrie,
If you go with VideoText for Algebra, will we still need Singapore 6 for Alg. readiness/Pre-alg. since Module A of VideoText is meant to cover that?

Also, since we are on track to finish 6A and maybe 6B in 6th grade, will you have a transition suggestion for those kids so they won't be doing Alg. 1 and 2 in 7th with VT (if you go that route of course). Or will you plan it out to be a two year program?

[Carrie]

Mom2Monkeys,

We are currently thinking of slowly beginning VT Algebra with our 8th grade son this upcoming school year, and just seeing how far he gets. Module A is the Pre-Algebra part of VideoText, so we'd move slowly through that.

It also appears that Singapore 5A/5B often requires some slowing down to really get the concepts and that it is even more difficult at times than 6A/6B, just because the concepts are new. So, we're planning that most kiddos wouldn't get to VideoText (or whatever we recommend next) until grade 8. Kiddos would need to complete Singapore 6A/6B prior to heading into VideoText (in order to be ready for the higher-level thinking required for Algebra).

For those kiddos who are math whizzes and can start early on Algebra (after Singapore 6A/6B), VideoText says that there are younger kiddos doing just fine in the program. One other option to transition to VideoText for a younger child who has finished Singapore 6A/6B early might be to do one of the Key To... series books in between finishing Singapore 6B and VideoText. We need to look more deeply to see what would be best overall transition-wise from Singapore to VideoText. However, we are planning to try out VideoText for awhile first before making any recommendations.

Blessings,
Carrie

[moedertje]

I am so glad to have your wisdom. I will get more confident with the Lord's help in my ability to teach math. I am thinking too far ahead, my ds is only in Kindergarten, but he is doing just fine doing 1A right now and is almost done with MUS Alpha. I will finish Alpha, but will rethink what to do next year, whether to do both or just do the Singapore. I will pray about this and ask for my husband to help me in this one. I will let you know. We are only in Unit 11 anyway for BLHFHG so we have some time left to chew on it.
Many blessings and may the Lord continue to give you great wisdom as you recommend and write the manuals.

[Tiffini]

Carrie, i have been following this discussion quite interestedly. I am so thankful for your insight and careful research. I have a question for you. My dd is in 5th grade this year. She is currently using TT6 and doing fine with it. I love the program because it is not work for me. She tolerates it, but it is not her favorite.

I am working on planning math for 6th grade next year. What would you recommend? I have considered several things. Switching her to Singapore for her 6th and 7th grade years and then probably following whatever you recommend for Algebra in 8th grade. The VideoText looks quite interesting and I love that it is totally reusable. But is 6th grade too late to switch to Singapore?? I'm afraid it would be too confusing at this point. However, if we continue with TT7 next year, then we would be at TT PreAlgebra for 7th grade and it sounds like that may not be the best idea. It is at the TT Pre-Algebra stage where your concerns started, correct? But, she would be too young to start on VT Algebra 1 as a 7th grader, so there would be a gap there if i went with TT7 next year. Sorry this is so confusing! I hope it's making some sense.

Also, my twins will be 4th graders next year. They are in R&S 3 this year and doing fine. But, I really struggle with the idea of teaching them R&S 4 next year because it was a difficult year to teach to my oldest who went that route. I was considering TT for them next year more to make it easier on me and because they really want computer math like their sister. But, do you think it would be more beneficial for them at this point to put them in Singapore next year and allow them to continue that until Algebra? I guess I am worrying about moving programs again with them. Singapore scares me since we did not start with that.

Do you or anyone else have some recommendations for me? I would greatly appreciate it. Thank you!

[Carrie]

moedertje,

There are moms who do mix and match with math and find it works just fine, so you could probably continue as you are doing with Singapore and Math-U-See as long as you don't feel the need to do all of both programs. Eventually, you'll probably want to choose just one of the programs to be your main program and stick with that. You'll know when that time comes!

I also KNOW that the Lord will give you what is needed to stay true to His call for you to homeschool, and we'll do all we can do to help you along the way!

Blessings,
Carrie

[Carrie]

Tiffini,

If you are having sucess with TT in the younger years, you could definitely stay with them next year. The old adage, "If it isn't broken, don't fix it" is very true for math. I still think that there are many good math programs out there for the elementary years. We, of course, are partial to Singapore, but we did use an eclectic math route with our oldest (and he has done fine). Sometimes staying with a math program is a better option than switching, especially if it's going well. Consistency helps a lot!

If you're wondering about Singapore, you may wish to give your daughter the Singapore placement test just to see where she places. It will give you a good feel as to what level your daughter is at (according to Singapore math). We have found that the younger TT programs are about a grade level behind what the normal math sequence is in most other programs, so you can get a false sense of "on grade level" security with TT if you don't ever compare it to other math programs scope and sequence-wise. If you do end up switching to Singapore, plan to back-up a bit to cement the concepts.

If you do stay with TT, you could possibly consider going into VT Module A with your daughter as a seventh grader. However, if math isn't your daughter's strong suit, you'd most likely want a Pre-Algebra program first. This is because Algebra is quite dependent on mature thinking and reasoning skills, which often come more easily as the child gets older.

If you did use TT for Pre-Algebra, you wouldn't lose any more ground math-wise. The first half of Pre-Algebra is a review of what was covered in TT7. This means you'd basically be reviewing for much of the year and then have the new concepts all at once in the end. In reality you'd do this to allow your daughter to get another year older before beginning Algebra I. VT Module A is actually Pre-Algebra, so you would get a review of Pre-Algebra there and could just start with that after TT Pre-Algebra. We are thinking strongly of going into VT Module A after TT7, since my son is will be in 8th grade next year.

Singapore's strength is in higher-level thinking skills and mental math. It is written to provide a solid foundation in those areas, making kiddos transition to higher level math easier. When coming from TT, we are fully prepared for our oldest son to have a tough time in the transition to VT, and we know it will take our time to sit with him to make sure he understands what he's doing. My hubby and I have decided that it is a priority for us to do this, so we feel it will be time spent.

Blessings,
Carrie

[moedertje]

Thank you Carrie,

I am spending time with the Lord on this subject especially since I have more children coming. What I gather from your writings is that Singapore can be done by all children, even if you may have to slow down a little at one point to make sure they understand. I love the fact that it prepares them for higher level mental math.
One of the reasons that I choose MUS is, because of the fact that Math is such a difficult subject to teach if you don't understand it. Even though I did Calculus myself.
I am finding to get comfort that Singapore will be the way to go and that I will have to persist. My son actually loves it and has had no problems with it so far. It's more Mom who has the issue:-).
This too the Lord shall be my guide and lead me in the way we should go. It is nice however to have some practical help!

I will stay on the road with your programs as the years go and we can read how God will show me the way as I look at the options for other curricula (such as grammar etc) as well that you recommend, since you tend to think future prep when choosing what is best.
Blessings to you and May the Lord guide you continually as you prepare for other manuals to come.

[Tiffini]

Carrie, thank you so much for responding. The problem with TT is the cost! I'm not crazy about paying that much when I can get the same math instruction for so much cheaper. I will continue to pray about this and wait for God's guidance. Your opinions truly help so much when thinking through things. Thank you!

[marypoppins]

Hi Carrie,
I was wondering if you have been able to review Chalkdust as an option for Algebra. I realize that one of the big drawbacks of that program is the high price tag, however, I value your opinion, and I'd like to know what you think about the program's instruction.
Thanks!

[Carrie]

marypoppins,

I have looked at Chalkdust, and while I do think it is very solid math instruction, I struggle with the length of the math lessons on DVD (45 min.- 1 hour a lesson) and with the number of problems in the daily assignments. It feels extreme. While I realize a person could certainly cut back on the number of problems assigned, I also think I would be at a loss as to which problems to omit (when the program fully intended for all to be completed). I know I would feel like I'm missing something by cutting then.

The texts used with Chalkdust are also your typical public school publishers, which are often not my favorite within the homeschooling circles. In addition, the very high price tag of Chalkdust, is no added bonus! For a very mathy kiddo, Chalkdust could definitely work, but for the average to non-loving math kiddo, I worry it would suck the life out of math for them!

While I do like the idea of a DVD component to aid in the teaching of math, I'm not sure I want to go with the teacher on the DVD doing it all. I feel like that is one area in TT that I would struggle with as well. I still want to be in the math loop, so I can readily help my kiddos (without it taking an hour a day for me to stay on top of it). So, shorter lessons are important to me. They may not be as important to everyone else though!

Blessings,
Carrie

[8arrows]

If this is helpful to anyone using high school math, this is how I am handling the time commitment. We use TT. I watch the presentation with my oldest, and then we compete during the five practice problems (pausing each one as we work on them).
If we are correct, we move on to the next (keeping score of course); if not, we watch the explanation. He does the problem set on his own. This has given me enough of a math jolt to keep up with him. However, he does sometimes need to explain something to me as I don't do any of the problem set (but that just cements the material for him). I can also help him sometimes when he is stuck on a problem. However (the good part), now that I have learned (or relearned) the math, I don't have to watch the presentation with my next 7 students! With my second son, I just do the practice problems with him after he watches the presentation. He does not care to compete, so we just compare answers and then move on. I am thinking that this might have applications to other high school math series as well, so it might be helpful to someone. Another plus has been that my oldest (Alg. 2) helps my second son (Alg. 1) if he gets stuck.

[Carrie]

8arrows,

Thanks so much for sharing your expertise! I agree that it is a good idea to participate a bit daily to keep on top of what the kiddos are learning math-wise (and for me to relearn the Algebra I have long since forgotten.) I am in complete agreement that my time spent in participating in the math instruction now will help me need to spend less time on it for future kiddos, as you mentioned. I think this tip applies well to any math choice!

Blessings,
Carrie