A better Balance for my 9 yo in Bigger

[deltagal]

Hi there,

We're finally up to speed in our use of HOD with my 9 yo (very soon to be 10). This ds is doing the right side of Bigger and the left side of Beyond with his younger brother. I'm using all of the HOD recommendations for the basics with these exceptions - in addition to the emmergent reader schedule I have been using the Ordinary Parent's Guide to Teaching Reading for additional phonics instruction. And in lieu of the spelling lists or dictation we have been using All About Spelling. I do like both of these resources, but combined with everything else I'm starting to feel as if it is a bit too much, perhaps even some duplication. I'm liking the balance and depth that I'm seeing with the HOD plan and I'm interested in some thoughts on how we could tweak this a bit. A bit more about my 9 yo - he reads on 3rd grade level, but his fluency is poor. He is a VERY choppy reader and does not have good decoding skills. His spelling is on a 2nd grade level.

I look forward to your thoughts.

[Mom2Monkeys]

If I recall correctly (it's very likely I'm wrong) the phonics book you are using is more of a "whole word" approach instead of teaching them to sound out/decode words. You may like to pick up Phonics Pathways (and Reading Pathways could go with it for added activities) and just start in it where he needs to be. It targets teaching decoding, left to right eye movement, and fluency in reading. I'd especially recommend the Reading Pathways book (formally known as Pyramids) in order to increase his fluency...it has a great method that I can get more detailed about if you want me to.

As for All About Spelling, we did that for a while and decided to drop it. It's too time intensive for us and when I started doing it as written in Beyond, my dd's spelling improved drastically! She could spell great in AAS, but it didn't carry over into anything she wrote outside of spelling lessons. With the way it's done in Beyond, she is spelling so well now in all the writing she does in every subject as well as non-school writing (and we're only on list 12!)

[deltagal]

If I recall correctly (it's very likely I'm wrong) the phonics book you are using is more of a "whole word" approach instead of teaching them to sound out/decode words. You may like to pick up Phonics Pathways (and Reading Pathways could go with it for added activities) and just start in it where he needs to be. It targets teaching decoding, left to right eye movement, and fluency in reading. I'd especially recommend the Reading Pathways book (formally known as Pyramids) in order to increase his fluency...it has a great method that I can get more detailed about if you want me to.

As for All About Spelling, we did that for a while and decided to drop it. It's too time intensive for us and when I started doing it as written in Beyond, my dd's spelling improved drastically! She could spell great in AAS, but it didn't carry over into anything she wrote outside of spelling lessons. With the way it's done in Beyond, she is spelling so well now in all the writing she does in every subject as well as non-school writing (and we're only on list 12!)

.

Mom2Monkeys thanks for your reply. Actually, Ordinary Parent's Guide is strict phonics - sounding out/decoding. And we use the Pyramid book, as well, to build fluency and work on left to right eye movement. I do flip flop back and forth between the Phonics Pathways and OPG. At their core they are quite similar. I feel like the work with rules as in OPG, PP and AAS has benefit. This child wants to know the logic behind things and the teaching method in AAS seems particularly effective with him. BUT I also think he might do well doing just as you said. Hmmmm. Much to think about.

[Mom2Monkeys]

OOps I got it confused with something else I guess.

Sometimes, if you are feeling overwhelmed, just the change to a "simpler" way for a little while can help so much. My dd is much like your ds. I was so hesitant to switch away from AAS when we started HOD. She loved it and so did I! I stayed with it at first, as well as doing the HOD way. I discussed it with her and she let me know that the HOD way was what was helping her spell..she said for some reason she could remember how to sell those words better than the ones from AAS. So, I gave myself the grace to let go of something where I felt a formal program was needed and we've never looked back! For us, HOD just works. I no longer feel like I have to keep adding stuff to make it complete and she is excelling and learning more than ever. You've find your fit...and remember to allow yourself some grace! Nothing is worse than a burnout feeling when trying to enjoy teaching your kids. I've learned to give up some good things in order to pick up the great ones and stop trying to over do it for myself! My time is precious to me, so I've eliminated all "duplications" and for now, anything that was making me feel like it was too much. I LOVE the way things are going now.
I'll pray that you'll get it figured out and I'm sure others will chime in as well.

[my3sons]

My ds had speech difficulties so you can imagine how spelling would not be an easy subject for him. We did the plans in the HOD guide, and I added in another spelling program as well while doing Beyond... - by the middle of the year, I'd noticed he was still spelling words learned in the other program incorrectly - but he was spelling words learned in copywork/spelling lists from HOD correctly. I stopped the extra spelling, and two years later he's doing awesome. I'd put the other program aside and give HOD some time. Also, perhaps reading to your ds in a choppy way out loud and then asking him what he notices about that may help. I had a "fidgeter/yawner" here for awhile. I do not know why, but whenever he began reading out loud, he'd stretch, yawn, sigh, fidget, etc. - repeatedly. Even though he was still obviously enjoying reading, I was ready to pull my hair out listening to that!!! The 2 things that seemed to help him become a better oral reader were...

1. I read his Storytime book out loud and sounded very choppy, stretched, yawned, and fidgeted while I read. He hated it! I told him that he was reading that way to me sometimes, and that I really wanted to hear the story but had trouble concentrating when listening to him do that. He totally didn't realize it sounded that way.
2. I let him preread his reading as a practice run before reading it out loud to me. This made a significant difference. I just send him in the other room - so he didn't feel like I was watching him and so I wouldn't jump in and correct him - and he laid on the couch practicing his book first. Then, he'd read it out loud to me. It was much better. We did that for a long time, and now he just reads without practicing first. We also kept the reading segments short.

In Christ,
Julie

[Carrie]

Florence,

It sounds like you are making wonderful progress this year, so take a moment to enjoy where you're at, you're doing great! Next, so many of us on this board know exactly where you're coming from when making changes in language arts, me included!

I'll link you to a previous post that will really help with the thinking on dictation: viewtopic.php?f=12&t=1246

I'll also just mention that when a kiddo is stopping and starting when reading, it can either be a phonics issue or can be a practice issue. If your kiddo seems to know his phonics (and it sounds like he does), then it may be that he just needs a year of steady practice reading aloud. Reading aloud is a skill that takes practice, just like decoding does. It takes time to read fluently and that is usually the stage we call an Emerging Reader. Often, after coming through a year's worth of the Emerging Reader's Set, kiddos are much more fluid with their reading. This is why we recommend not rushing through the Emerging Reader's Set and giving kiddos the whole year to incrementally raise their reading level while becoming a confident reader. Just something to ponder.

Blessings,
Carrie

[deltagal]

Thanks ladies,

Lots of good thoughts here. I didn't mean to give the impression that we're in a panic or burnout. We're doing quite well! I'm just a professional tweaker at heart. I am also extremely conscientious of our time and I have begun to feel that, although our resources are great, I do think we're duplicating effort and spending a "little" bit too much time in some areas when combined with the HOD offerings. So, with all this in mind, this is where I'm leaning. I'm going to set the current spelling program aside. We just completed a Level, so we're at a good transition point and go strictly with dictation. In truth I used to use dictation with my oldest when he was 10, BUT he made NO progress with it. However, I know timing is everything, so we'll give it a go.

Reading wise I'm not so sure. I don't think he is solid on his phonics, but he is eager to read. I do agree with you Carrie sometimes they need to spend time reading and we have been. He assesses better than he actually reads, in my opinion. We're currently using the emerging readers and doing a bit of phonics instruction each day. Hmmm. I'll keep praying on this one.

If you have more thoughts - send them on.

[deltagal]

. You may like to pick up Phonics Pathways (and Reading Pathways could go with it for added activities) and just start in it where he needs to be. It targets teaching decoding, left to right eye movement, and fluency in reading. I'd especially recommend the Reading Pathways book (formally known as Pyramids) in order to increase his fluency...it has a great method that I can get more detailed about if you want me to.

Mom2Monkeys,

I spent a little time today rereading the find print in my Phonics Pathways and have decided that I am going to pick up our use of this book again. Hiskes mentions in a section of the book that if a child is consistenly having trouble in an area to go back and practice, practice, practice that skill until it is mastered. After giving my son a quck assessment he read the entire book great, EXCEPT For the short vowels and two-letter blends. We're going to go back and practice, practice, practice to solidify those short vowel blends. We'll also use a pyramid activity each day along with the emergent readers. That should be quick and effective. I think the best feature of the book is the font size. I'll let you know how it goes. Thanks for your thoughts on this. i'm already looking forward to tomorrow.

[deltagal]

I hope everyone is off to a beautiful beginning of a scrumptious day! I implemented the 2 slight changes in my ds9's plan today - only dication, no other spelling program, a few phonics exercises and the emmerging reader. It went well. I didn't feel there was any duplication of effort and our time was better spent. I'll do a spelling assessment in about 6 weeks and let you know how we're doing. Have a happy day - everyone!

[Mom2Monkeys]

I'm so glad you were able to target where your son needed your extra help! That's great! It also sounds like you've had a wonderful morning with school I can tell you feel happy with your decision. I can't wait to hear your progress update!

[Carrie]

Florence,

I'm so glad that you feel good about your changes. I feel safe in saying that duplication of areas within language arts is the number one time-killer in homeschooling. It is so easy to get too many programs that are overlapping and creating a lot of teaching time for the teacher. I found this to be true with my oldest son when he was a third grader, and I discovered he had over 2 and 1/2 to 3 hours of instruction every day just in language arts (by the time he'd gotten through the grammar lesson, the writing lesson, the spelling lesson, vocabulary workbook, and literature study). It was as if the workbooks were just piling up beside him! It was overwhelming to him and to me. That is when we made major changes. It is often when a child is near third grade that parents have this realization that they have TOO MUCH in the area of language arts! You're not alone!

I also did want to mention that where dication is concerned, we've discovered that it is not successful when done less than 3 days a week. Dictation is also a SLOW BURN, meaning that at least a year or more of consistent use is needed to see a difference in kiddo's writing.

Blessings,
Carrie

[deltagal]

I also did want to mention that where dication is concerned, we've discovered that it is not successful when done less than 3 days a week. Dictation is also a SLOW BURN, meaning that at least a year or more of consistent use is needed to see a difference in kiddo's writing.

Carrie,

Thank you for these comments which raise a question for me. What do you do when a child masters the dictation on the first or second day of the week - do you go ahead and move to the next dictation the next day or do you wait for the next week. Also, on that same note, how do you determine if the dictation is too easy for the child?

[netpea]

We move on to the next dictation as soon as my son completes one. I have found the passages to be fairly easy so far, but my son still makes mistakes because he has not learned to check his work before telling me he is "Done".

[Kathleen]

What do you do when a child masters the dictation on the first or second day of the week - do you go ahead and move to the next dictation the next day or do you wait for the next week. Also, on that same note, how do you determine if the dictation is too easy for the child?

Florence,

If you read through the instructions in the appendix for dictation, it says to move on to the next one when it's done correctly. So for the 3 days a week that dictation is scheduled, you may do 1,2, or 3 passages depending on what is missed. If they miss something, they are to fix it right away, and circle it in the page they study. (I copied these so that my ds can circle mistakes with a colored pencil...and make his check mark on completed passages.) I'm pretty sure all this info is in the guide because I'm a brand new dictation mom and simply following directions.

My ds comes by spelling easily, and the passages in Bigger aren't difficult for him, but I think they're still beneficial. It's a short, sweet way to practice spelling and writing things correctly. (Totally painless! ) Why has he had to repeat passages...no period on a sentence!!! Seriously, he's mispelled 1, maybe 2, words this year...but remembering to put a period on a sentence - that's another story. I think we're finally making progress though - in dictation, English, you name it. Those periods are finally showin' up.

Good luck with your changes!
Kathleen

[deltagal]

[If you read through the instructions in the appendix for dictation, it says to move on to the next one when it's done correctly. So for the 3 days a week that dictation is scheduled, you may do 1,2, or 3 passages depending on what is missed. If they miss something, they are to fix it right away, and circle it in the page they study. (I copied these so that my ds can circle mistakes with a colored pencil...and make his check mark on completed passages.) I'm pretty sure all this info is in the guide because I'm a brand new dictation mom and simply following directions.

Hi netpea and Kathleen,

Thanks for your reponses. I did read through the guide, but it takes a little working with it for me have complete clarity on the expectations. Just for organization purposes, I photocopied the dication passages and put them on notecards in a card file box, so we could easily roll from one to the next and the child has a passage to mark. I made a section in the box for dication mastered and future dictation. This way I can write on the back of the card any words that are giving the child difficulty, notes to myself and any "tips" that might be helpful.

Do you ever go back and review previous dictation?