2nd grade writing

[allforjesus]

My son is in 2nd grade and doing Bigger. He loves it all, except the amount of writing. I'm wondering how much writing he should be doing as a 2nd grader. In Bigger, daily he would do copywork with poetry and sometimes Bible verses, science notebooking writing, dictation, sometimes history activity writing, Rod & Staff 2 writing (which alone is way too much for him.) In addition he does 1 sheet from Abeka Lang. Arts. I dropped a "handwriting program" for him this year. All of this together is too much for him. He is overwhelmed and his handwriting starts getting worse. I would say in a day, he does the Abeka sheet and one other area mentioned above. I've been doing Rod and Staff 2 with him orally. It seems like a ton of writing work. So, is it just me who feels this way or should I be encouraging him to work into this amount? Just wondering if he's up to speed for a 2nd grader.

[j_croche]

I'm fairly new here, but I have a few suggestions. I think that the A Beka Lang. in addition to the R&S is probably overkill. We do the R&S orally...also, I've seen somewhere on the board where R&S 2 is started in 3rd grade as it is advanced. Some of the more seasoned moms will probably chime in on this. I would probably adjust the amount of writing daily to a level that he could to without frustration. Maybe do a writing activity then a hands on activity or 10 min. break, etc...
Sorry that I couldn't be of more help.
Blessings,
Jenni

[Kathleen]

Are you just starting Bigger? I know when we were just starting Bigger in August, it took a little bit to get used to the skills that were new to us with a new curriculum. Overall, I'd say that my 8 yo is doing less writing this year with Bigger than last when we were doing a mix of textbooks. I had the Abeka LA 2nd grade workbook last year. (My then 7 yo thought it was way too much writing...so I toned that down. I also agree that if you're doing R&S 2, you probably don't need it as they cover some of the same things.)

I think that Carrie does a good job of spreading the skills out in a day's plans. We're now in Unit 12 of Bigger and the units follow the same plan as you go. I think the only thing that we write daily is the poetry copywork and Cheerful Cursive. I saw a thread recently that talked about copywork (and it really helped me change the way I think about it). It suggested not having the goal as having the WHOLE poem copied my the end of the week, but to spend 4 days of the unit copying a line or 2 or 3 (depending what's comfortable for your child), and doing it well. This ccomplishes the goal of working on excellent handwriting - by doing less to a higher standard - and having the benefits of spelling things correctly and using punctuation. I used to see the goal as finishing the poem. On the 5th day I let my son illustrate the poem.

The other things that you listed are kind of mixed in through the week along with History Notebooking, Vocabulary and the Timeline once a week. We also have some written work with DITHOR...I'm not sure if you're doing that.

Now what helped us as we started this year was to ease into the guide a bit. We did a few weeks of doing half the day's plans as we were learning new skills. (This also cut way down on the writing every day. )

For R&S, I usually have my son write 5 sentences or if we choose part of the work that only requires a one word answer, I have him write out 8-10 of them. We do the rest orally. I also let him write his English on a white board. I have no clue why, but writing on the white board makes it take half the time and he loves it! (Maybe you want to buy a little one, it did wonders for us!)

Vocabulary was a big struggle for us the 1st week. (I wanted him to do all the words and it overwhelmed him! ) Doing just one of them as the guide says you can may be a great option while still learning the needed skills there. The way we moved into doing it is that Grant finds the 1st word in the book, reads the sentence, makes a guess as to what it means, looks it up, I write the definition as he dictates to me, he makes up a sentence which I also write down. THen repeat for word 2. THen for word 3, I listen to him read the word's sentence & make his guess, and then leave him to finish that word. He then draws his picture for all 3 words. This is workin' like a charm for us!

At the beginning of the year, I would write out the Bible verses on a white board for him to have him copy for his science notebooking rather than having him copy directly from his Bible. This made it easier for him not to lose his place. You could also have him put a 3x5 or sticky note under what he needs to copy to speed looking back and forth. Or doing that amount of copying for him if it's a fight would be totally fine, too.

Hopefully something in here may be helpful. I guess one other thing I don't think I've said is that I don't have my ds do all of his written work in one sitting. We break it up through the day. Having to sit and write for no more than 20 min at a time really helps the quality...and reduces daydreaming here!

Kathleen

[wisdom4us]

When we first started Bigger, I felt the same way as you! It took us forever to do EVERYTHING. Then I realized that R&S was to be an oral exercise between mother and child. That count us way back on our handwriting!

We have since, taken a step back away from Bigger. It was just too much on my ds.

[Carrie]

allforJesus,

The ladies are doing a great job of helping you talk through the writing portion of your sweetie's day. First of all, take a moment to rejoice that your kiddo is doing well and enjoying Bigger overall. That is a wonderful thing!

Next, I just want to encourage you that many kiddos struggle with writing of ANY sort. It is something to grow into just like learning to read or learning to do math problems. I agree that there's no need to do ABeka in addition to Rod and Staff, so I'd pick one or the other. Since your little guy doesn't enjoy writing, I'd choose Rod and Staff, as it is easy to do orally. In the Introduction to Bigger, I actually recommend doing almost all of Rod and Staff orally, and only assigning one small portion to be done in writing each day. So, you're actually doing Rod and Staff the way we intended by doing it almost all orally!

Next, in the daily plans, we actually rotate the writing assignments around, so you're not doing all of those writing assignments on any one given day. So, make sure you're following the plans as written, and that will help you not to get overloaded with too much writing.

As far as writing activities go, you'll need to keep the scheduled dictation, but you could omit the poetry copywork. In Bigger Hearts, the poetry copywork is only suggested but not scheduled daily or required. If your little one is doing cursive, then the poetry copywork could be skipped. I know that we didn't do it with my second son, and it was fine.

That will leave one other writing something each day to be done (either copying a Bible verse, doing a history notebook assignment, doing a science notebook assignment, or a science experiment form). With each of those assignments, you can write the beginning part of a sentence or even a sentence or two and have your sweetie finish the rest. Then, you can gradually move up to requiring a little more of it to be written by the student until you eventually work up to full-speed by the end of the year. Make sure not to do more than one vocabulary word either (and you can even do the writing for your student on that one, taking dictation).

Writing will always be an area that takes some growing into for MANY kiddos. No matter what program you use, there will be writing required. Just allow your child to ease into it, gradually moving up as he's able, and you'll eventually find success!

Blessings,
Carrie

[my3sons]

We did BHFHG last year with my second grader and had a wonderful year. It took us about 6 weeks or so to really get into the swing of it all though. I have always viewed 2nd. grade as a big growing year academically, and BHFHG did not disappoint. I began with Carrie's suggestions for doing R & S orally - and oh my, I think that is a terrifically thorough program - I would stop doing Abeka too. We also followed her suggestion of only copying a bit of the poem each day. We usually only did 1 line each day, ending up with about a stanza each week. My ds decorated it then too. If dictation is seeming overwhelming, your ds should probably do the spelling words instead - which is the less writing of the 2 options, and the "Introduction" says either one would suffice. We did the spelling list when we did BeyondLHFHG, and it helped my ds be ready for dictation, so you could even start the spelling list somewhere in the middle or toward the end rather than at the beginning - wherever your ds seems best to fit could be the starting point. I did many of the things Kathleen suggested for the vocabulary cards, and as the guide suggested doing anywhere from 1-3 vocab. words, we did 1 at the beginning of the year, 2 in the middle, and 3 by the end. I did do BHFHG exactly as it was written, which helped keep the balance of the writing spread out over the 5 day plan. Hope some of this helps! Give it a little time, and your little honey will grow into it - or even slow down the pace since he's on the young side of it anyway.

In Christ,
Julie

[my3sons]

When we first started Bigger, I felt the same way as you! It took us forever to do EVERYTHING. Then I realized that R&S was to be an oral exercise between mother and child. That count us way back on our handwriting!

We have since, taken a step back away from Bigger. It was just too much on my ds.

Hi Summer! Have you thought about slowing down the pace of Bigger, doing the left side of the plans one day, and the right side the next day? We started BHFHG off that way for a bit, and that was a nice easing into it start for us. We also did that with LHFHG for one of my sons, and it was the perfect pace for him for about 7 months, and then the last portion of LHFHG we did all of the plans each day. Just a thought!

In Christ,
Julie

[wisdom4us]

Hi Summer! Have you thought about slowing down the pace of Bigger, doing the left side of the plans one day, and the right side the next day? We started BHFHG off that way for a bit, and that was a nice easing into it start for us. We also did that with LHFHG for one of my sons, and it was the perfect pace for him for about 7 months, and then the last portion of LHFHG we did all of the plans each day. Just a thought!

In Christ,
Julie

Hi Julie,
That is a thought. My plan was to pick it back up in January so maybe we will go with this schedule. I am doing LHFHG with his twin brothers so he is getting History, Bible and the rhymes with them. He seems to be emotionally immature for his age and was struggling with reading. We have been Teach Your Child to Read in 100 Easy Lessons and he's doing really well so I'm hoping that by January his reading level would be much improved by then along with his handwriting. We are also working on that right now too.

He is really a tough one. He is excelling in math and science and his thoughts along those lines are at a much higher level than reading and writing. I know that is common for boys but even our evaluator said he would be a tough one for her to teach who has many learns of teaching experience in public and private schools. So it's been frustrating.... But I can see improvement now!!!

Thanks for the suggestion Julie, I may just take you up on it!!!

[my3sons]

Good morning, Summer! Well, this world sure needs some young Godly men that are strong in the math and science fields - so that is surely a blessing! I understand what you mean about emotional immaturity with boys. We have one ds who fits that bill. His little emotions are all over the place, and he's a little mover and shaker too. Advil has become a friend of mine more than a few difficult days with him! Anyway, your idea to focus on the reading with the 100 Easy Lessons program is really a good idea. It sounds like that's going well, and once he gets his reading down more, that just flows into everything else so beautifully that it is well worth extra time and consideration. As far as the writing, I do think just letting him do more of it orally (since he seems to enjoy that format anyway) is fine, with maybe you doing the writing more as he gradually takes it over eventually. As long as he can learn the gist of the lesson, that works too. Doing BHFHG half-speed for as long as you feel necessary will really give you time to focus on the reading and gradually increasing his writing at a comfortable pace. Thanks for the answer back here, and I hope you have a great Saturday!

In Christ,
Julie

[anointedhsmom]

He seems to be emotionally immature for his age and was struggling with reading. We have been Teach Your Child to Read in 100 Easy Lessons and he's doing really well so I'm hoping that by January his reading level would be much improved by then along with his handwriting. We are also working on that right now too.

He is really a tough one. He is excelling in math and science and his thoughts along those lines are at a much higher level than reading and writing. I know that is common for boys but even our evaluator said he would be a tough one for her to teach who has many learns of teaching experience in public and private schools. So it's been frustrating.... But I can see improvement now!!!

Hi Summer,

I just wanted to pop in and let you know that I completely understand your frustrations. We are doing BHFHG with my 9.5 year old son who can only read very basic CVC words at this point. He too seems to be immature for his age. He seems to run about 2 years behind his age emotionally and academically no matter what I do That's just the way he is and I'm learning to trust that God knew what he was doing when he formed him in my womb. But it's been a very difficult road with him but we are now finally making some progress. One thing that seems to be helping with his reading is a program called Language Tune Up. It's Orten Gillingham based and is done on the computer. It can be done independently by the child. My son is doing well with this so I just thought I might bring it up to you. You can check it out at www.jwor.com Because of my sons reading struggles we do not do the Spelling or Dictation. I was doing BJU Grammar but have decided to drop it and I'm now doing R&S 2 orally with him so we don't get excessively behind with grammar principles while he catches up with his reading. His writing is also behind and we work on that too. He started Cheerful Cursive and I am hoping that helps his writing. He wanted to start it so we did.

I know none of this helps you. I just wanted you to know that I know what you are experiencing and that it will get better. I just have to remember to follow the Lord's timeline for this child instead of mine or anyone else's.

Blessings to you!

[wisdom4us]

Julie,

So do you think it would be ok for me to do the notebooking for him right now? Then he can gradually grow into doing it himself? He likes to draw the pictures but the writing that went along with it, seemed to do him in. He also did not like drawing the maps but maybe that could be something that he and his dad could do together? Thanks again Julie.

Paige,

Thank you for your encouragement as well! Sometimes I do feel like I'm all alone with this when you look around and see everyone's children excelling - I start feeling like *I* have done something wrong or *I* didn't do something..... Thanks again!

[my3sons]

Julie,

So do you think it would be ok for me to do the notebooking for him right now? Then he can gradually grow into doing it himself? He likes to draw the pictures but the writing that went along with it, seemed to do him in. He also did not like drawing the maps but maybe that could be something that he and his dad could do together? Thanks again Julie.

Paige,

Thank you for your encouragement as well! Sometimes I do feel like I'm all alone with this when you look around and see everyone's children excelling - I start feeling like *I* have done something wrong or *I* didn't do something..... Thanks again!

My oldest son had the opposite skill of drawing to work on. He just needed his confidence to grow in his drawing and coloring, and it was not something that came naturally for him. I felt like a failure in that area - like I had somehow been too picky and turned him off to it (and there is some hard truth to that for me ). So, for his beginning notebooking, he did the writing, and I drew the basics of the drawing for him. I always required him to do some of the drawing, and soon he was doing it all and feeling more confident about it. I learned to accept what he did without over-critiquing it. He has learned to enjoy drawing so much more now. I am so thankful for the notebooking scheduled because it helps him grow in areas that it would have been easy for me to overlook otherwise. Now that we're doing PHFHG, notebooking is something he does very well with independently. And - he is even enjoying drawing and coloring, which is something I didn't know if would ever happen! So, don't be so hard on yourself - no child is wonderful at everything (especially the equally important areas of character training). I do think that you doing most of the writing and him doing the drawing would be just fine. I think you doing all of the writing for notebooking might send the message that you don't think he can do it (I know this from personal experience ). So, even him just writing one of the shorter sentences, maybe from a model you wrote on a markerboard, and you writing the rest might be a winning combination to start with? And as far as the maps, tracing or photocopying when appropriate may be a good option - and if dh is willing to jump in, I say use that wonderful resource! In our dc's areas of struggle, it is sure a wonderful thing to have reinforcements to help like your dh! These are just ideas - I by no means have all the answers, so just do what you think is best!

In Christ,
Julie

[wisdom4us]

My oldest son had the opposite skill of drawing to work on. He just needed his confidence to grow in his drawing and coloring, and it was not something that came naturally for him. I felt like a failure in that area - like I had somehow been too picky and turned him off to it (and there is some hard truth to that for me ). So, for his beginning notebooking, he did the writing, and I drew the basics of the drawing for him. I always required him to do some of the drawing, and soon he was doing it all and feeling more confident about it. I learned to accept what he did without over-critiquing it. He has learned to enjoy drawing so much more now. I am so thankful for the notebooking scheduled because it helps him grow in areas that it would have been easy for me to overlook otherwise. Now that we're doing PHFHG, notebooking is something he does very well with independently. And - he is even enjoying drawing and coloring, which is something I didn't know if would ever happen! So, don't be so hard on yourself - no child is wonderful at everything (especially the equally important areas of character training). I do think that you doing most of the writing and him doing the drawing would be just fine. I think you doing all of the writing for notebooking might send the message that you don't think he can do it (I know this from personal experience ). So, even him just writing one of the shorter sentences, maybe from a model you wrote on a markerboard, and you writing the rest might be a winning combination to start with? And as far as the maps, tracing or photocopying when appropriate may be a good option - and if dh is willing to jump in, I say use that wonderful resource! In our dc's areas of struggle, it is sure a wonderful thing to have reinforcements to help like your dh! These are just ideas - I by no means have all the answers, so just do what you think is best!

In Christ,
Julie

I know what you mean about over-critiquing! I'm guilty of that myself. He is not a neat and tidy boy to begin with and his writing and drawing, well leave me much to desire but I put too much pressure on him and expect more out of him than he can probably do right now. I think we just see so much in our children that inside we know that they can do the work but like Paige said it has to come on God's time line not ours. I've never been good at judging time!

I am a follow the rules type of person, if the lesson plans say, draw this or that then ds HAS to draw it or it's not right. So your suggestions have helped me to realize that I need to be more flexible and allow my child to grow into his education and not expect him to know it. How ridiculous did that sound? That is why my signature has that quote, to remind ME that I am an igniter not a filler of a pail!

Anyway, thanks again for your suggestions. I am excited about picking Bigger back up.

allforjesus,
I feel like I hijacked your original post. I apologize!

[my3sons]

Thanks, Summer! I'm so glad you've come to that conclusion, and I think you and BHFHG will have a happy reunion with the wise thoughts you shared in mind - glad to have been of some small help!

In Christ,
Julie

[allforjesus]

My oldest son had the opposite skill of drawing to work on. He just needed his confidence to grow in his drawing and coloring, and it was not something that came naturally for him. I felt like a failure in that area - like I had somehow been too picky and turned him off to it (and there is some hard truth to that for me ). So, for his beginning notebooking, he did the writing, and I drew the basics of the drawing for him. I always required him to do some of the drawing, and soon he was doing it all and feeling more confident about it. I learned to accept what he did without over-critiquing it. He has learned to enjoy drawing so much more now. I am so thankful for the notebooking scheduled because it helps him grow in areas that it would have been easy for me to overlook otherwise. Now that we're doing PHFHG, notebooking is something he does very well with independently. And - he is even enjoying drawing and coloring, which is something I didn't know if would ever happen! So, don't be so hard on yourself - no child is wonderful at everything (especially the equally important areas of character training). I do think that you doing most of the writing and him doing the drawing would be just fine. I think you doing all of the writing for notebooking might send the message that you don't think he can do it (I know this from personal experience ). So, even him just writing one of the shorter sentences, maybe from a model you wrote on a markerboard, and you writing the rest might be a winning combination to start with? And as far as the maps, tracing or photocopying when appropriate may be a good option - and if dh is willing to jump in, I say use that wonderful resource! In our dc's areas of struggle, it is sure a wonderful thing to have reinforcements to help like your dh! These are just ideas - I by no means have all the answers, so just do what you think is best!

In Christ,
Julie

I know what you mean about over-critiquing! I'm guilty of that myself. He is not a neat and tidy boy to begin with and his writing and drawing, well leave me much to desire but I put too much pressure on him and expect more out of him than he can probably do right now. I think we just see so much in our children that inside we know that they can do the work but like Paige said it has to come on God's time line not ours. I've never been good at judging time!

I am a follow the rules type of person, if the lesson plans say, draw this or that then ds HAS to draw it or it's not right. So your suggestions have helped me to realize that I need to be more flexible and allow my child to grow into his education and not expect him to know it. How ridiculous did that sound? That is why my signature has that quote, to remind ME that I am an igniter not a filler of a pail!

Anyway, thanks again for your suggestions. I am excited about picking Bigger back up.

allforjesus,
I feel like I hijacked your original post. I apologize!

Yes - it was a little bit hijacked. Don't worry. Great conversation. I enjoyed it. Thanks for your thoughtfulness though in your remark. I appreciate everyone's input and desire to encourage each other. Praise God for HOD. We LOVE it!