Give your opinion: Science in future guides

[Carrie]

Ladies,

Here's a link to a previous thread where I talked a bit about science for the new ancients guide:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1655

We have been doing MUCH brainstrorming and talking about the area of science for future HOD guides. Currently we are thinking that we would like to have the science box in the next 4 guides each be targeted at one main "category" of science.

For example, the new ancients guide would focus on Life Science. Then, the next guide's science box would focus on Earth Science. The following guide's science box would be focused on Physical Science, and the last guide's science box would be an overview of Chemistry/Physics most likely done biographically (so as not to require a higher level of math for working formulas) and a look at the creation/evolution debate. A sequence like this would be less tied to the history, and more independent in its scope and sequence. But, would result in a more systematic coverage of the sciences. We would most likely not use Apologia's upper level programs or Rainbow Science, but would schedule from other sources. We would recommend that if kiddos have a science bent or a family is very science-minded, they could easily substitute or add-in upper level Apologia or Rainbow.

So, here's some questions I'd love you to brainstorm through if you have a minute....
1. First of all, what do you think about this type of a science structure?

2. Secondly, what do you desire to see in a science program (assignment/experiment/reading-wise)?

3. Thirdly, how have you covered science in your experiences prior to HOD and what have your feelings been on the success of your science study?

Don't feel like you need to have all the answers, just share away with what your experiences have taught you or what your thoughts are!

Blessings,
Carrie

[inHistiming]

I think this type of science plan sounds great...a whole year studying one area would result in some awesome scienctific knowledge (for me too!).

As for readings/experiments/assignments...we've really enjoyed what you have had so far in Bigger...the experiments have been especially popular because we have never done these on a regular basis before HOD. I would like to see the assignments continue to include some sort of drawing/sketching because my kids love to draw, and seem to learn so much better when that's incorporated.

And our success? I would say ours was very minimal prior to HOD. Other programs we tried required a lot of preparation ahead of time, and I often found myself skipping the science because we did not have what we needed. I love the fact that HOD uses materials that we will have on hand (most likely) at home..it makes it so easy to do the experiments. And if we don't it's usually easy to substitute an item...and the guides often have an alternative suggestion for what to use if we don't have ________.

I realize as children get into the upper levels it may be necessary to do a bit more planning ahead of time, but I feel confident that you will be able to come up with something that it not too time-intensive. That's part of what we love about your programs...their ease of use.

I'm looking forward to reading through others' thoughts, and eventually getting a peek at what your plan will be .

[MamaMary]

1. First of all, what do you think about this type of a science structure?

2. Secondly, what do you desire to see in a science program (assignment/experiment/reading-wise)?

3. Thirdly, how have you covered science in your experiences prior to HOD and what have your feelings been on the success of your science study?

Don't feel like you need to have all the answers, just share away with what your experiences have taught you or what your thoughts are!

Blessings,
Carrie

1- I really like the four year plan. I also would not mind breaking up the different sciences into quarters. First 9 weeks "Life", Second 9 weeks "Earth" 3rd and 4th. (then rotate?) But either would work fine for me.

2- Hmmm...,

a) I really like how you have the notebooking in Bigger and wondered if that would be carried through to the older grades? (notebooking/Research)

b) I love the idea of using the Apologia guides as part of the program. I've never been successful implementing them on my own.

c) If you are going to do experiments I would love to have a weekly supply section? (can I throw that in? )

3- I have mainly done science in a co-op situation or through unit study. I've never used a full science curriculum

[beandip71]

I like the idea of focusing on one area of science at a time. I have no problem with the science not corresponding with the history. Thanks for asking for our opinions.

Gina

[mamas4bugs]

Carrie,

Thanks for asking us! I love that you ask opinions and chat on the board. It makes HOD feel like community and not just a random curriculum purchase.

1. I love the four year idea. I have no problem at all with science not corresponding with the history, especially when they get older.

2. I really like the way Preparing is laid out. My son loves the notebooking assignments (the ones where he draws something from the book and then copies part of the text--I love that there's grammar in that ). I like that he has to answer questions once a week, and we all love the experiments. Oh, and I love that they do lab reports this year. My sister taught science in public school for 10 years and is so glad to see the lab reports in Preparing (they may be in Bigger, too--I don't have that one yet ). For my 10 year old, the reading assignments could be longer--he usually winds up reading ahead--but when my next one gets to Preparing, he will only be 8 and I think the length will be perfect. So, I really like that layout for the week--notebooking (drawing), questions, an experiment.

3. OK, being a curriculum junkie, we have covered science in several ways in the lower grades. Honestly, so far HOD is working best. There are enough assignments to make me feel like they are actually doing something, but the assignments are doable so they actually get done. Does that make sense? We have used SL science, Great Science Adventures, Singapore science, Winterpromise, Bob Jones, and a science kit curricula from a company whose name I can't remember (very fun, but waaaaaaay too time intensive). I feel like I'm forgetting something. We love love love Apologia for the older grades, but I've never used them for elementary. My kids love science, but again, we have had limited success with most of the above just because we are very busy and everything seems either very labor intensive or very time intensive and frankly, we just don't always get to it. Again, I love what I've seen in Preparing so far. It seems to be a great balance for us. Thanks, Carrie!

[Mom2Monkeys]

I think it sounds good and have no problem with science and history not being tied.

I like MamaMary's idea of breaking it into quarters. I feel like that keeps science fresh and interesting for the kids and renews their focus. Also, this allows you to touch base with each area on a deeper level each year leading up to a greater understanding of each as they enter high school science.
I do also like the idea of the Apologia Zoology and human body books you mentioned in the other post. And I think it's a great idea to hit on the creation/evolution debate.

I'd also like to see the kids working up to greater independence in not only the readings, but also the assignments and experiements. I like the schedule of Rainbow...I think its 3 days per week, with independent lessons and on the last day, they do an experiment on their own. That leaves me free to be there when able, and if not, science can still go on.

Problems we've run into even in these early years is TOO MANY experiments!! Or odd or expensive items needed for them. We get burned out rather quickly.
Successes: We've loved the Lyrical Science CD's ! We just used one or two of the cd's and didn't worry with the workbook. It's a lot of fun! They introduce those difficult vocab words gently and in a fun manner making them not quite so unfamiliar when it comes time to know them.

I like what others have mentioned about the notebooking, drawing, research...I'd really like to see outlining and notetaking of the lessons but could add that on my own if need be.

[HollyinNNV]

Carrie,
I am new to the HOD boards, but not to homeschooling. I organize a writing/science co-op in N NV. I teach writing, but also do a lot in the science category as well. My suggestion with science is not incredibly creative, but it has served our co-op well. I would strongly suggest that you take a rigorous high school biology textbook and work backwards from their suggestions. If a 9th grader has requirements a-z, then an 8th grader should have requirements a-p, a 7th grader a-l etc. Our 9th graders are writing approximately 15 formal lab reports. It stands to reason that an 8th grader should have completed around 8 formal lab reports, a 7th grader-3 reports.

The weakest link for our co-op has been in memorizing scientific terms and taking science tests. The high schoolers take 10 big unit tests. Within each unit are 3-5 chapters. One chapter can include as many as 40 vocabulary words. It would be incredibly helpful to introduce these types of skills gently, but early. (Earlier than we did!)

I guess that I feel it is important to look at what your ultimate destination is, in addition to how you get there.
HTH,
Holly

[Carrie]

I'm loving the sharing on this thread, ladies! So keep the responses coming!

Blessings,
Carrie

[GingerN]

Greetings Carrie, ladies. I've been enjoying your suggestions. I just wanted to add my 1 1/2 cents.

1. First of all, what do you think about this type of a science structure? I love it. It is very classical in nature and comfortable to me personally. To spend a year really focusing on one major area, like biology, allows time for deep understanding.

2. Secondly, what do you desire to see in a science program (assignment/experiment/reading-wise)? I really appreciate experiments, notebooking or lab sheets, and also beautiful reading books that express what I could never do on my own...that 'Let the Author Speak' approach. Perhaps readings could be done a few days a week, notebooking or nature journaling could be included, and an experiment day to wrap things up. Maintaining a science notebook with drawings, simple experiment sheets, short reports, etc., is valuable experience for the upper level sciences. I would really appreciate an occasional suggestion for a field trip (to a pond, for example), or perhaps a suggestion for a video that would compliment the lesson.

3. Thirdly, how have you covered science in your experiences prior to HOD and what have your feelings been on the success of your science study? We have, unfortunately, had a hit-or-miss coverage, emphasizing history as our primary subject. My girls are absolutely loving the science readings/notebooking/experiments in Bigger now! What a treasure their drawings will be. We have, in years past, enjoyed beautiful books for browsing, like Usborne, and large resource books like Kingfisher science guides. We love picture books and also love literature books about scientists and living books about nature. So, things to look at, things to ponder over, and things to learn facts from.

May the Lord continue to bless you with wisdom as you seek His guidance in your lovely programs.
Ginger

[ncmomof5]

What an honor to have input into this upcoming curriculum. Thanks so much, Carrie, for asking what we think!

As for me, we are just starting out on our Charlotte Mason style homeschooling, so our science experience has been limited to textbooks, worksheets and tests. I always wanted to do more with science because my oldest dd loves it, but it just never got the attention it needed and deserved. The experiments always seemed to have at least one item that I did not have on hand, and I just never got to it. I must say I am THRILLED with the blessing and opportunity to be using Beyond this year. My older son - who is not currently using HOD - said just yesterday - "Drew is always doing something fun in science." And I thought,"Yeah, he is." Wow, this is a first for a science dreading Mama to be doing experiments and loving it. Sorry, I got a little OT there, but I just had to gush a little.
Anyway, I think the plan that you have laid out, Carrie, sounds great, and the fact that it does not tie in with history is A Okay with me. I think what Holly said is important as well. We need to see where we're going and make sure we are providing the building blocks for them to get there. Somehow incorporating memorizing scientific terms and important basic scientific facts - just like we have to do for math - should be included.
Thanks again for listening.
RuthAnn from NC

[water2wine]

YEAH! I love these types of questions!

1. First of all, what do you think about this type of a science structure?

I like it. I think something that systematically covers specific areas is a great idea. That I guess reflects more how they will cover upper level science later on in their education so it seems reasonable to me. I think if you are going to cover two areas in a year that would be OK too. That also is normal for what would happen later on in their education.

2. Secondly, what do you desire to see in a science program (assignment/experiment/reading-wise)?

I would like to see something that is connected to God first and foremost but not necessarily connected to the History. It would be fine to tie it in if it does but would not want to sacrifice the science for the sake of the history. I want something that goes deep conceptually but still has that easy to use HOD feel. I want to do experiments but I would rather have more meaningful ones rather than a lot of them. I think one a week would be fine but more than that would seem taxing unless it was kind of a continuation of the last one. I agree with the suggestion for a weekly supply list or an appendix area that has a supply list. I would love to have a systematic science report also. You know something where they have an actual form that has hypothesis, supplies used, experiment description and results type thing or some guidance on that I think would be great. And an appendix for further study if you wished would be great as well. It could be a living book that might connect or as others have suggested a movie or even a field trip. Not things that had to be but kind of like how LHFHG has more suggestions that would be great for the science as well. It's a lot to ask though. It would be an additional area where you could tie in some of the creation vs evolution items. I am glad you are thinking that way.

And in my ideal world there might be two choices per year like one Apologia or one Rainbow. I say that because I think it adds variety and I am afraid you are going to pick some things I have already done. Plus it might allow for different levels and it is something that I have not seen in any other unit study program and it seems like maybe it would be a good idea, although it may be too hard to implement. I really like the looks of Rainbow science but I know it is expensive so it may help in that area to have choices as well.

3. Thirdly, how have you covered science in your experiences prior to HOD and what have your feelings been on the success of your science study?

We have picked usually science books that interested us and worked through them linking usually a couple together and made it kind of a mini science unit study. I've liked having a main science book as a guide and adding side books to support it. That has made it more interesting for us. I usually picked the experiments that I thought looked good to do. My kids love experiments but that is my fatal flaw is setting them up. I am not sure why that is. Science was my field and I still lag in accomplishing as many experiments as I would have liked to do. But I think if there was a science box that supported the experiment getting done we would do it. I guess it is just a little psychological thing sometimes but we get the boxes done.

What I have loved in our science is how we have connected it all to see God's hand in it all and intertwined it with supporting reading. The problem will probably not surprise you that I tend to over do it. So a simply yet thorough thing that is already done would be great. That way we can complete things and know it was enough. One thing I think we have lacked in was reporting results and maybe that taking of one concept and letting it build on the next concept.

I'm excited to see what you decide and love that you are asking us once again. I love to hear the ideas and see where that takes you. Thanks for letting us share in the process.

[Tiffini]

I like the idea of focusing on one area of science at a time. So far, in our science experience, we have skipped all over the place all year. It would help my concrete mind to stay on one thing at a time.

I like what we are doing with HOD as far as EASY experiments and notebooking. I hope to see that continue. I also like small ideas at a time to focus on. Today, after reading about Rittenhouse's orrery and making a diagram of the solar system as well as reading about the Transit of Venus, my oldest said that she wants to study astrology when she grows up. I love to see them loving Science. In the past, Science has been very hit and miss with us as I always put it last and then would run out of time. I rarely did the experiments that we were supposed to do. I like having science as a regular part of our days and the kids really love that it is actually happening!

I have heard great things about Apologia and would love to see that included at some point.

Thanks for all you are doing, Carrie, and for asking our opinion.

[Carrie]

These are such truly excellent responses that in all selfishness, I am going to bump this to the top of the board , in case anyone who wanted to respond might have missed it! I am loving this discussion as it is like a round-table talk with like-minded moms on an area we're working on for our new guide right now! Did I tell you ladies how much I appreciate each and every one of you lately?

I am coming to weigh in on what we're thinking more deeply on some of these things, but I want everyone to have a chance to give their 2 cents!

Blessings,
Carrie

[water2wine]

Carrie,

I love that you even ask our opinion and I also hope more people weigh in. Science is near and dear to my heart. One thought that comes to mind is that I see so much science in programs that feels to me like it will never apply to real life science. What I have loved about HOD science is that it sort of comes with the application. I completely see taking it out of the history at some point and this seems like a very good point to do that but what about a focus more on real life science. By that I mean something that has the focus of showing them what are they really seeing in the experiment and how can that apply to real life science and what are the assumptions that are in the experiment as conclusions are drawn. I am just thinking in the real world I hated working with some of the ivy league grads. They knew all the facts but they never knew how to analyze the data in other words what do the results mean and because of that they made some really huge assumptions (usually that their theory was right no matter what hahaha!). So in the higher levels I would love to see some of that kind of thinking. Some of the getting them to look at the experiment and what is it really telling you and what are the conditions that must be true for the results to mean anything type thinking.

Ok basically I am just bumping this up again for more to add their wisdom to it, I am so excited about these up coming guides. I know they are going to be great and we can't wait to use all (8?) of them.

[anointedhsmom]

Ok I'm finally going to reply to this I have been avoiding it because I agree with points of each reply before me LOL. Here goes!

1) I like your idea of a specific focus for each year. I think there are plenty of subjects within each focus to keep it from becoming boring or tedious. I also would be fine with changing the focus each quarter.

2)I like the notebooking in Bigger. I like the independant experimentation in Preparing. I would only want to see that continue and become more. I too have had 3 of the Elementary Apologia books and never used them. In fact I have the Zoo 1 book with the supply kit sitting here waiting to be delivered to it's buyer. I like the idea of it but have never been successful implementing it. I'm sure if it was written into a HOD manual I would do it

3)I would also love to have a supply list as the science becomes more in depth. I personally would like to have a weekly supply list for the whole manual. Bigger is very much a pick up and go manual but if I have to go hunt the pliers and then see if we have tooth picks etc. I am apt to skip it. I am doing a Bigger weekly supply list as we go along as it is. I am looking a week ahead at least and making sure I have everything I need and have all the copies made. If I have to make copies every day then I end up frustrated.

4)I don't care if the science coordinates with history or not. Fine if it doesn't.

5) I agree with HollyinNNV. I think it would be a good idea to introduce scientific terms early and slower so as not to overwhelm the child.

6) I completely agree with water2wine. Yeah what she said LOL.

If I think of anything else or I want to steal someone else's ideas LOL I'll let you know.