Beyond Enough for 2nd Grade?

[HawaiianMoon4]

This is a question based on my own end-of-the-year insecurity at the moment. (Does anyone else fret about all the dreams you had for the year that weren't met?) We just began HOD a couple​ months ago to get our feet wet for next year as we are new to HOD and wanted to see how it worked. This question is mostly for my middle two. We have completed about 5 weeks in Beyond with my 7.5 year old first grader and 4 weeks in LHTH for my 5.5 year old. I've already purchased Bigger & LHFHG. I'm debating between going all summer or taking a break. I guess I'm concerned that Beyond won't be enough for a 2nd grade, 8 year old. She places best in Beyond at this moment, but is close to Bigger. I don't want to put her behind as she already feels behind being old for her grade (September birthday) & she's struggled learning to read and feels unintelligent. I don't want her to feel more behind. Will Beyond be enough for 2nd grade or should we plug through to Bigger? And my 5 year old (6 this August) does not even know his letter sounds, but I'm concerned LHTH isn't enough for a kindergarten year (especially with him being another older, summer birthday). I've considered really hitting his letters this summer and moving him into LHFHG for kindergarten. Any suggestions? Thank you so much.

[sarah_smile81]

Hi there -

What a good question! Having gone through the Beyond guide and more than 1/2 of the Bigger guide with my daughter, I'm going to try and offer an opinion for your older child.

After months of researching every curriculum I could find information on, I chose Heart of Dakota for its middle school guides and high school plan for my older son, and I decided at the last minute to purchase a guide for my middle daughter. I'm so glad that we did! As you know from working with Beyond for a while now, it is such a great program. My daughter's first year with HOD was her second grade year, and I placed her in the Beyond guide based upon where her skill level was upon entering that guide.

At first (after a few weeks), I thought that I could have possibly placed her a guide ahead in Bigger that year. But as I began working with my son, and seeing the level of thinking and the work load that the middle school guides required, I realized the value in having placed my daughter in the Beyond guide for 2nd grade. Working in a guide in which she was well placed boosted her confidence throughout that year. Had I placed her a guide ahead that year, she might have been able to handle the level of writing and reading that Bigger contained, but she probably wouldn't have excelled and loved it as much as she did. In her Beyond guide in second grade, she enjoyed the work load and I was able to find time in our day to add in special extras (more art projects, some bonus reading, visits with friends) that the Bigger guide may not have allowed me time for had I used it that year. I had over-estimated my son's skill level when placing him in the RtR guide his first year, and it took some time and effort before he found his niche. So my advice if you are torn on which guide to use based upon borderline skill levels is that I would encourage you to stick with the younger guide and add to it if you feel it is necessary (you may not even want or need to add anything!) Keeping her in the Beyond guide for her second grade year would allow her to progress through all of the guides by the time that she graduates.

As for your little one, if you think he might be ready to start Little Hearts in the fall after working on his letter sounds this summer, you could always select the younger options for the workbooks, science, and reading choices. The nice thing about the younger guides is that they have 5 day weeks and an overall greater number of days in each guide (170), as opposed to the older 4-day guides (140). So if you started your little guy sooner rather than later in Little Hearts, you could always stretch the Little Hearts, Beyond, and Bigger guides out over a greater span of time than just three years.

I hope that you are able to find the right fit and choices for your family! Heart of Dakota has fantastic customer service that can help you with placement concerns, if you give them a call. I am praying that you don't doubt yourself with end of year insecurities - because as Mom, you know what is best for your little ones, and you are doing a great job! Enjoy your summer!!

[StephanieU]

Yes, Beyond us enough for second grade! HOD follows many CM ideas, which results in the early guides feeling light. But things pick up quickly! Bigger is when it starts feeling more like school.
I added to Beyond with my first when she did it for second grade. I now regret it. We did Roof and Staff English 2, and although she could handle that and level 3 with Bigger, level 4 was a huge struggle in Preparing! The only things I added that I don't regret are cursive (she wanted to learn to read Cursive, so she was motivated to do it) and our fun extras like Awana, field trips, and co-op twice a month

[HawaiianMoon4]

Thank you so much for your responses and encouragement! It really brings me some peace. I don't want to make the mistake of not challenging them enough. I was telling my husband how much I love homeschooling in that we can really find ways of reaching our children each individually and have so many freedoms. With all those freedoms, however, come great responsibilities and a plethora of decisions to be made. It can feel intimidating. One question I thought was that our middle two are 22 months apart (though 2 years apart in skills), and it seems if we put them in guides back to back (LHFHG for kindergarten & Beyond for 2nd), it might be overwhelming. I have seen it advised to not run guides back to back. If most seem to do LHFHG for kindergarten, how could the timing work out in the end?

[StephanieU]

Most actually do LHFHG for 1st OR spread LHFHG through Bigger out over four years. I would personally just wait to start LHFHG until 1st. As you can see by my signature, my kids are 2 years apart (23.5m and 20.5m). They are in different guides. The older two start guides in spring/summer, and the third starts in January. This is working so far. We will see how it goes in a few years when the second is finishing Preparing and the third is starting Bigger. But that is almost 2 years away! And things can change a lot between now and then!
Start the second on math, phonics, and handwriting at his/her speed. Let him/her listen in and participate as much as he/she wants in Beyond. Then, come January or next fall, start LHFHG with 1st grade options (except stick with the K science - it works better!).

[rumkimom]

I used LHFHG for 1st grade, Beyond for 2nd grade and Bigger for 3rd grade. My son in second was doing well in Beyond (we put him in school in the spring but he was doing well in it even though he could not yet read at age .

[my3sons]

Such great advice here already! Beyond... is written to be used for 1st or 2nd grade, so no worries there whatsoever!!! As far as your little one, I'd do LHTH to teach letters/sounds/numbers/Bible history, etc., and also because it is just plain fun to do! It always gave me mommy time with my little one each day, which made me feel good and made my little one feel special. You could do it 3-4 days a week through the summer, as it only takes 25 minutes a day. But, if you are wanting a summer break, no big deal to start LHTH in the fall if you'd rather. You can always, at any time, add the K language arts and math from LFHHG to LHTH, if you are wanting to because your little one is ready. Your sweeties are doing just fine - enjoy the journey!!!

In Christ,
Julie

[HawaiianMoon4]

Thank you so much ladies for taking time out of your busy days to help me! You have encouraged me so greatly! I feel like I can take a breath now (and a break!)

Gleaning from your wisdom, I think I will continue LHTH with my third born over the summer and into the fall. He loves "Mommy time," and I can work on understanding how he learns best. We've learned the first 4 letters in LHTH, but he doesn't seem to be remembering them, so we can experiment with how he best remembers. I think I will just work on some light math and reading with my daughter and then start up with Beyond again in the fall for 2nd grade. We are considering a co-op twice a month, so we have enough cushion to be off school for some of those days with the few weeks we've finished already.

I am considering adding Cheerfully Cursive to her Beyond work next year. I used Bob Jones to teach her manuscript, but she still needs work. We slowed to half pace with her print and yet it didn't seem to helping much. She's very interested in cursive, and I've read that it can help with letter reversals, dyslexia, and fine motor skills. What are your thoughts? Also, is the style similar to Bob Jones cursive? I couldn't find many examples of it.

For those who used Beyond for 2nd grade, did you do R&S English with Beyond or wait until 3rd grade with Bigger? She doesn't spell or write a lot yet, but that could even change over the summer.

Thank you once again for all your encouragement and wisdom. I'm not sure what path we would have ended up on without it!

[StephanieU]

See my original reply about Rod and Staff English. We

I regret starting Level 2 in Beyond for second with my oldest. Level 2 and Level 3 went an issue. Level 4 (with Preparing for 4th) was a struggle! I will not stay my other kids in Rod and Staff until third grade

[HawaiianMoon4]

Thank you. Sorry. We had VBS and I was working with two year olds all week, so I was exhausted when I wrote that. We are finishing our "last" week of school next week (though we really school year round), so I've been deep in school planning mode. I will have so much more peace knowing what the plan is when we start up again.

[Rice]

We used Beyond for 2nd, and are in Bigger for 3rd. I still haven't added formal grammar. I plan to start with R&S 3 in Preparing in 4th (around age 9/10, as per CM recommendations). My oldest 3 children didn't do formal grammar until grades 3(advanced; he went into CTC for 4th the next year) to 6 and they're not behind after a year or two of grammar studies.

We didn't do cursive until this year in Bigger for my #4, but my #5 was in LHFHG this year and instead of teaching both manuscript and cursive, I taught them both cursive. This is my 4th out of the 5 where I taught them cursive before giving them instruction in manuscript. I find it works well. Although only 1 of my oldest three uses cursive now, they are all capable and know how to read it. Yes, it can help with letter reversals.

I started cursive in 2nd with my oldest because his print was horrendous! He had beautiful cursive! My one suggestion is to stick with cursive long enough for muscle memory to make it second nature. My son has reverted to his "chicken scratch" manuscript and it's a struggle for him to make it legible, although I must add that he does have many symptoms of dysgraphia, so pen-to-paper has always been a challenge for him.

One last little comment about your youngest: don't worry too much about trying to discover "how he best remembers" yet. At that age they still learn through all their senses. Their strengths/weaknesses and learning styles may not become apparent till well into elementary school. If he's not remembering letters (a VERY abstract concept) very well, he's probably just not ready. Remember that CM (upon which HOD is based) advocated no formal lessons before age 6. Although I think some may be ready earlier, it doesn't hurt any of them to wait (early learners aren't ahead by middle school) while it can be a detriment to push them too early. Enjoy LHTH, have patience and keep practicing. One day it will stick.

[HawaiianMoon4]

Thank you so much for your reply as well. I am realizing, although we've been homeschooling for five years now and will soon be starting our sixth, I have not done any deep research into educational philosophies. I know what I feel and what I've experienced while teaching (both substituting and teaching 4th grade), but I've never read deeper than quick internet researches and Cathy Duffy's synopsis. I do feel Charlotte Mason's ideas are more in tune with what I've experienced as effective, however, I haven't read any of her books. Where would you start? I had no idea she advocated against formal lessons until 6 years old! We have naturally waited until our children were 5.5, but I didn't have a reason to point to other than my gut feeling.

I do think it might be fun to try Cheerfully Cursive with Beyond next year with my second oldest. And we will wait to start R&S English until we reach Bigger in 3rd grade. I am currently doing LHTH with my 5.5 year old. He'll be six this August, which is outside the suggested age range. That being said, we are doing it throughout the summer and so will finish a bit early next year. Are there suggestions for pacing LHFHG so we won't be moving too quickly through the guides? If he's finished 2/3 of kindergarten when he begins LHFHG, how can I have him on track to do Beyond for second grade for instance? StephanieU, you mentioned most moms will spread out LHFHG to Bigger out over four years. Is there a schedule that makes that easy to accomplish? Thank you.

And I thought it was wise to bring up how he might not be fully showing his learning style yet as he is still quite young. That hadn't occurred to me but brought me peace.

[Rice]

Sorry I've taken so long to respond again!

Where would I start researching CM? Probably AO (Ambleside Online: https://amblesideonline.org/WhatIsCM.shtml), because that's where I learned so much. (We used AO for 5 years before finding HOD.) They have a page about each subject. Some of HOD is not "strictly CM" but it is CM based so you may notice some variance in the way AO talks about it and HOD schedules things, but HOD is so much easier to implement and leaves so little to you as the teacher for skill building, that I no longer recommend that moms consider using AO. (Incidentally, it's where Carrie started out, too!)

Another website with some great blog entries is Simply Charlotte Mason (https://simplycharlottemason.com/what-i ... on-method/). (And one I haven't looked at: https://charlottemasoninstitute.com/ has a link at the bottom for A Delectable Education - a podcast I've been hearing about on a local CM FB page lately.)

Although CM's own 6 volumes would be amazing reads, they've been too daunting for me, so although you can get a modern English version free online (https://amblesideonline.org/CMM/ModernEnglish.html), you might want to look elsewhere first unless you have a lot of time (possibly over years) to devote. There are some good books about CM, too: A Charlotte Mason Education and More Charlotte Mason Education (both by Catherine Levison), as well as A Pocketful of Pinecones (about CM nature study, by Karen Andreola) are all good.


As for spreading out LHFHG for 1/3 K and all of 1st, to be ready for Beyond in 2nd, you could aim to do about 1/4 (around 7 units?) for K, then you'll have 28 units to spread across 1st grade. Probably about 4 days per week most weeks would do that. You will be able to move faster later in the guide, so doing 5 units at full speed to finish K, then having 30 units for 1st would work fine, too.

The LHFHG, Beyond and Bigger for K, 1st, 2nd and 3rd is really just accomplished by starting with just 3-4 days per week. You need to do an average of 27 units per year to spread 3 guides over 4 years (3 guides x 35 units / 4 years = 26+ units/year). Of course, you can start with closer to 22 units for K (3 days most weeks?), leaving 32 units (closer to a full course load; 4-5 days per week) for 3rd before hitting Preparing. Of course, your goal would be to do reading at their level and to complete one math grade per year (so you wouldn't be able to follow the guides for math).

HTH!
Blessings,