Placement advice for 8th and 9th graders

[tjneary99]

Hello,
I'm looking for some wisdom regarding placement. My 8th grade daughter has done every guide since Bigger except Rev to Rev. She's currently doing MTMM. My 7th grade son is doing Rev To Rev with MTMM science and has done every guide since Bigger. Here are my options with some thoughts and relevant info:

1. Keep them in separate guides until they graduate with the possibility of doing Rev to Rev science together in high school. They are doing MTMM science together now. I like keeping them in science together where possible.

2. Put them back together and do WG next year in 8th and 9th. Then beef up MTMM with Rev to Rev science(already high school worthy) for my son later.

Why?/concerns
--My umbrella recognizes high school credit for classes done in 8th grade, and he would still be on track for credits if we beef up Mtmm later. Would it be ridiculous to beef it up in his senior year?
--I have a toddler and needy 3rd grader, who due to a year long illness last year, is behind in spelling and writing skills.
--I work part time. Keeping track of different guides while grading, working and chasing a toddler is very challenging for me personally. Also, we are on call a lot in our ministry work, so schedules can get disrupted.
--My daughter needs more accountability as she tends to let her creative mind run...away...a lot:) working alongside her brother would help without burdening him.
--My son is very organized, diligent, and responsible. He has had no trouble with any HOD books so far. He loves history, logic and mapping. He likes science too but is more history minded. He is not the voracious reader my daughter is, but perhaps he could read fewer living library books if needed or I could read a few with them. They miss read aloud:) But he is young for his grade and I'm wondering about the intensity of the WG guide and books. I would put him in pre algebra though for the year rather than algebra, and I think he'd do fine with that math.

Bottom line:
Yes, my preference is keeping them together, but other than the challenge of book sharing:), I'm wondering:

Can my son handle WG (with pre algebra not algebra) in 8th grade? I've read it's challenging. I'm not sure in what way.
Can we beef up MTMM with Rev to Rev science for his 12th grade?

Every year, God provides. I'm praying and am grateful for the wonderful insights of ladies here who have gone before me in this.
Blessings,
Jen

[LynnH]

I wouldn't recommend an 8th grader doing the WG guide, especially if he isn't a voracious reader. It is a lot of reading even if you cut down the living library books. It also is a big jump from MTMM. My son did every HOD guide from Preparing on up and it was a big jump for him and took some adjustment as far as the amount of time the day would take, getting used to the challenging reading level of A Book of Discovery and the amount of writing required. It is a smaller jump up to the WH guide, but still a jump. My other thought is if you had him to WG for 8th then that would put him doing the American History 2 guide(the final highschool guide) for 11th. You wouldn't want to jump back down to MTMM because that would be a repeat of much of the same things he had just done in MTMM. Also if he follows the science sequence with IPC science in 8th, then Biology 9th, Chemistry 10th and Physics 11th, you wouldn't need to go back to Rev to Rev Science because he would have already covered all those topics. You could graduate him early, but if he is on the younger age for 8th grade already you probably wouldn't want that and his sister might not like her younger brother graduating at the same time. You could possibly just have them do Science together and then his senior year he could do a science of his choice or maybe even take one as dual enrollment.

[tjneary99]

Thanks, Lynn that's helpful. I wonder if we could proceed another year separated with my daughter in WG and my son in MTMM. They can do science together. Then the following year, they do WH, Ah1, Ah2 and then he jump back to WG?
I've not seen many posts on combining for high school. I might be searching the wrong terms. Thank you:)

[Nealewill]

If it were me, I would not combine them and move them both up. Every guide builds on itself. If there were a way to move towards combining them, then I would do that. I actually had my youngest and middle child separate at the beginning of the year. I decided I didn't want to run 3 guides because it was just too much for me. So I ended up having my son repeat Bigger with his younger sister. Obviously my son is much younger and it isn't as big of a deal when they are younger to do things like this. Other than that, I would think that next year might get easier on you (hopefully) then this year if you wanted to keep them separate. You won't have to read story time to your oldest next year. Her writing will be on video. How much time a day do you usually spend per child? Since your oldest hasn't complete RevtoRev, I might suggest having your oldest complete RevtoRev next year, have the 8th grader complete MtMM and then the following year have them combine in WG. Would that save you some time? You could always do Science and DITHOR together. Maybe have them do the same writing program as well. HOD still sells Igniting your Writing II. It is similar to WWTB 2 but you could use this for both kids at the same time. Then have your oldest read the extensions to herself for RevtoRev and you could have her read the story time also or you could skip the story time (since she may have already hear some of it). Plus, I would add in finance and economics for your oldest. This would make it so that she will have all her credits that she needs by the time she finishes the AH1 guide.

What are your thoughts on this?

[my3sons]

A few questions - how are each doing in their guides? Are they doing all of the writing, reading, activities, notebooking, DITHOR, etc. work assigned in a timely fashion overall? In general, do you feel the guides they are doing fit them well? If you look at the placement chart with fresh eyes for each of them, where do they place individually right now? What unit is each in right now in his/her guide? Finally, what are their ages right now, and when are their upcoming birthdays? Thanks!

In Christ,
Julie

[tjneary99]

Hello,
Thank you for the insights, Nealewill. Every year, I pray over our course for the following year and weigh the season we are in, as well as, strengths and weaknesses. I considered Rev to Rev, but I think it would be too easy for my daughter and adding on too much would be hard for me to track with her. I'd have a lot of tweaking to do with a child who needs a lot of oversight....not for help but for accountability. My own mind starts to go a little bonkers when I have too many things to keep track of.
My husband planted a church a little over a year ago and became a pastor, so God has called me to a lot of change this past year or so. I'm learning to find balance in it all.

My daughter will be 15 this December. MtMM is a fine fit for her and she reads a lot and takes art and writing in addition and does fine. She's also doing algebra 1 this year.
My son will be 13 in August and he also takes the same art and writing, and Rev to Rev is great for him.
They are both timely in their completion with no complaints about difficulty.
I think my daughter fits very well into WG for next year looking at placement.
I think my son would be more challenged but I think MTMM would be no problem at all for him. I think he falls between the two or possibly in WG.
Looking at the guide, they completed the logic at co op last year. They loved logic and so it would be review for them. I used to teach Spanish, so I can easily help with that.
Considering placement--They've also taken additional writing from the same instructor for the last two years. The class is an essay writing class, so they've had extensive practice. They don't love writing essays per se, but they've had practice. They can definitely will benefit with lots more. They can easily write long narrations now and have few grammar mistakes in their writing. They grasp parts of speech and diagramming. They do all of the activities minus some of the hands on projects, because they take a hands on art class with a teacher they love. They do enjoy the projects though. As for critical thinking skills, we work on that in daily life as a family outside of school--we are analytical thinkers as parents and have a lot of Socratic discussions with our kids. We enjoy that a lot. So I think that might help, but then again, I don't know. As for reading, their comprehension is very good, and they are able to narrate orally. They like poetry and understand literary elements...though they would benefit from more practice. Dithor has been good for them.
I think I addressed the questions and considered the placement, Julie, but please let me know if I missed something to help you discern where we are.
I appreciate your feedback. Thank you so much for your time and wisdom.
Blessings,
Jen

[my3sons]

I want to thank you, Jen, for patiently answering all of my questions! I think looking ahead to next year, the best scenario really is for your dd to do the WG guide, and for your ds to do the MTMM guide. Combining for science may work, depending on each of your dc's abilities in this area, and depending on your desired layout of credits for each in this area. You'd asked what makes WG more advanced than MTMM? That is a good question! Our oldest ds is a voracious reader who has done all of HOD guides from the very beginning. After having completed MTMM, he was prepared for WG, but it was still a definite increase that made it 100% 'high school material.' First, the amount of time he did school increased quite a bit, which we did anticipate for high school. Time somewhat fell off his school days once he had learned the ropes and gotten into a good routine, usually about a trimester in, when he was doing MTMM and earlier guides. But with WG, the time remained very much the same throughout the year, right around 6 1/2 - 7 hours each day, 4 days a week to earn 6 1/2 credit hours and do the Living Library. The amount of reading and the level of reading definitely became more 'high school aged.' The BJU Lit with the Classic Novels intertwined was wonderful! But the pace moves, and the books are more difficult - I think the year of MTMM would be just what your ds needs to be ready for WG. Likewise, the amount of writing definitely increased, as did the maturity, depth, and length of assignments in general. When we did each of these guides with our oldest ds, my teaching time was not long - probably around an hour or so. As long as each of your dc are placed in the right guides, I think it may be easier to just teach them separately, let them each have their own materials, and let them each be successful in their guides. I just have this little voice in my head saying that if your ds did the WG guide he may never really feel as accomplished as he probably is for his age. He's just on the very young end of it, he hasn't completed MTMM which is excellent prep for WG, and with you mentioning you think he's probably ready for MTMM and he's not such a voracious reader, I just think he may feel like he's not 'good' at high school if he jumps into WG. I also think, if kids are appropriately placed, 2 older (as in upper middle school and high school) guides are probably easier on the mama than 1 guide with someone struggling. However, we can give the best placement advice we can based on what we know, but in the end, final placement is up to the parent. You know each of your dc best after all, and what they each need. If you want to get the WG guide and try it with both of them, you surely could! Or, maybe just ordering the WG packages for just your dd and being able to go over it all with your ds in mind at that point, may make the decision clearer. With you already owning the MTMM guide and having just taught it, you know what you'd be doing with your ds in that guide. Maybe being able to compare the 2 guides with ds in mind would make the decision quite clear. I hope something here helps!

In Christ,
Julie Grosz

[tjneary99]

Thank you, Julie. Your response clarified a lot for our family.
God bless,
Jen