Optional Shakespeare

[Rice]

I'm trying to decide what to do about the optional Shakespeare for Res to Ref, specifically this coming year for my first child to go through it. (Though the same will apply the next two years, as all 3 of my oldest have had the same exposure to Shakespeare so far.)

My son will be newly 10 when he starts R2R. We came to HOD at the beginning of CTC this last year and he has not only read most of Lamb's Tales from Shakespeare (and by read I mean listened to), narrated them and gone on to read through (taking parts, along with his brother, sister and I) a full play. Of the 3 kids, he's the one who enjoyed it. He doesn't like any coloring/drawing and is being stretched (in a good way) by the amount of writing required in CTC.

I don't really want to re-do Lamb's with him but also don't like skipping anything suggested, nor do I want him to miss essential skills (not just for sorting out complex story lines/familiarity with Shakespeare but also for amount of writing required) for moving into the next guide. Is there more Shakespeare coming up in the future? Could I make another literature selection and have him do copy work from that? Or should I take that instruction time to add in some Canadian history or literature? (These decisions are always easier after you've been through a guide once!)

Thanks for any and all input/suggestions!
Blessings,

[mothermayi?]

Honestly, I would skip it. He has already gone through the book, and besides a small amount of copywork and coloring, I don't think he would miss anything. At this age, Shakespeare is really just about exposure. You don't discuss or analyze the plays so he is already ahead of the ballgame since he's already discussed them. There is PLENTY of writing in RTR for a 10 year old, so I say don't sweat it.

I am curious if there is more Shakespeare to come in the future guides. I had my kid do the Shakespeare readings this year in RTR. He actually abhors Shakespeare now . That is not what I expected! I would skip it. Shakespeare is optional if that helps .

[LynnH]

I can't comment much on the Shakespeare study because we skipped it due to focusing on a few other areas that he needed work on at the time. I can say that Julius Caesar is used in the literature for the World History high school guide. The final high school guide will focus on British Literature so if there was going to be more I would think it would show up there. I know my friends son has used the Shakespeare study and to her surprise has loved it, but if you son has already read the book then I would probably skip it. There isn't any analysis of it in RTR, that comes when they do Julius Caesar in the WH guide.

[Carrie]

Rice,

I'm sure more moms will pop-in to share their thoughts, but I wanted to provide a different perspective on Shakespeare for you to ponder before you just "skip it." The reason that we made the Shakespeare part of the guide an option was due to the fact that some families may not want to expose their kiddos to some of Shakespeare's themes and situations. Yet, there is much merit (and usually enjoyment) in reading Shakespeare's plays as tales, especially if not done too young.

Listening to Shakespeare's tales and reading them on one's own are two different types of skills and experiences. So, if your son has not read these tales to himself already, and taking into account that he is an older student using this particular guide, I would not be quick to omit anything.

Whenever you start considering adding something to a guide, it is a good idea to step back and make sure that you aren't skipping something already schedeuled within the guide in order to do so. Each part of the guide has its purpose, and Shakespeare is no exception! It's purposes are as follows: To expose students to Shakespeare in a lower-key way when compared to reading the actual plays, to gain familiarity with Shakespeare's characters and plots (as the plays are referred to so often in other books, commentaries, movies, articles, etc.), to stretch students to keep track of multiple characters and subplots which is a stepping stone to reading longer more classic pieces of literature, to force kiddos to think about situations where morality plays a huge role, to follow characters and see what becomes of them due to the choices that they make, to stretch students' vocabulary in a new way (as Shakespeare contributed so many new words and expressions of his own invention to the English language), to prepare kiddos for later readings of Shakespeare's actual plays, and to develop an appreciation (or at least a familiarity) of Shakespeare's style of writing.

So, while there will be families that may choose to skip Shakespeare, as we definitely provide that option, there are also many families that choose to use this option. This link will provide more information on that subject: http://www.heartofdakota.com/rtr_hearts ... hakespeare

I have been pleasantly surprised by my own oldest 3 sons' reactions to Shakespeare's plays in this manner. My boys have actually enjoyed the tales and have been stretched in the ways I listed above as they read. The coloring has actually been enjoyed by all my boys thus far, and I have two boys who are NOT colorers! Yet, they have found it soothing, relaxing, and interesting to color the pictures in the Shakespeare Notebook. The pictures turn out very well no matter what colors are used, and the notebook is a lovely extension and reminder of what was read. My boys actually turn the pages in their notebook throughout the year to remember the tales (and admire the pictures).

On a sidenote, it is surprising to me that we have many families who order just the Shakespeare study from us, even if they happen to be doing an entirely different curriculum. The feedback we typically receive from families who have done the study is that they are surprised by how much their kiddos have enjoyed reading the tales and completing the notebook. This usually surprises parents, as most parents can remember truly disliking Shakespeare from their own high school days!

So, I would encourage you to consider doing the Shakespeare study this coming year. It only occurs once weekly, yet there are many goals wrapped within those once weekly sessions. My oldest son had done all of Nesbit's Shakespeare stories, and had listened to all of Lamb's Tales as well, through our years of Ambleside, but doing the reading of the tales himself provided a different view of them which he did enjoy.

Blessings,
Carrie

[Rice]

Listening to Shakespeare's tales and reading them on one's own are two different types of skills and experiences. So, if your son has not read these tales to himself already, and taking into account that he is an older student using this particular guide, I would not be quick to omit anything. . .

. . .Each part of the guide has its purpose, and Shakespeare is no exception! It's purposes are as follows: To expose students to Shakespeare in a lower-key way when compared to reading the actual plays, to gain familiarity with Shakespeare's characters and plots (as the plays are referred to so often in other books, commentaries, movies, articles, etc.), to stretch students to keep track of multiple characters and subplots which is a stepping stone to reading longer more classic pieces of literature, to force kiddos to think about situations where morality plays a huge role, to follow characters and see what becomes of them due to the choices that they make, to stretch students' vocabulary in a new way (as Shakespeare contributed so many new words and expressions of his own invention to the English language), to prepare kiddos for later readings of Shakespeare's actual plays, and to develop an appreciation (or at least a familiarity) of Shakespeare's style of writing.

I totally agree with your reasoning, coming from Ambleside myself. I understand that there may be some value in him re-reading these independently, even though it's been only a year since he did the last ones, but he's not an older student - he's just 9 now, will turn 10 the month he starts Res2Ref. I wonder if this might be a section where I could step his requirements back just a bit and use that time to add in some of the Canadian literature he will otherwise miss, due to HOD being so full. I could still ask him to do copy work from that.

Whenever you start considering adding something to a guide, it is a good idea to step back and make sure that you aren't skipping something already scheduled within the guide in order to do so. . .
. . .So, I would encourage you to consider doing the Shakespeare study this coming year. It only occurs once weekly, yet there are many goals wrapped within those once weekly sessions. My oldest son had done all of Nesbit's Shakespeare stories, and had listened to all of Lamb's Tales as well, through our years of Ambleside, but doing the reading of the tales himself provided a different view of them which he did enjoy.

I am starting to wonder, now that you explained that they read a story a week (except for the longer ones scheduled over 2 weeks) and knowing that the stories are quite long, if part of the skills he might miss would be attention for reading something so complex and lengthy in one sitting, although I suppose I could assign him equal time reading in Canadian lit., if I made that substitution, but it would not be of the same literary complexity, either.

What is the assignment for copy work? Is there a certain passage suggested or is it personal choice (much like Box 4 of History in CTC often is)? (I struggle to know how much is enough even this year.) There doesn't seem to be a big space for that (on the picture in the old catalog, anyway), so it seems that it might be less copy work than CTC even (though I know there will be more in other sections).

I know already that my son does enjoy Shakespeare, both Lamb's (we never did do Nesbit's) and the actual plays, so approaching it in High School will not be a problem.

My next two I will probably have do the Shakespeare - they will be further from having done it in AO, they are at the older end of the range, they've already read some or all of the Canadian lit I want him to read, plus they don't find it as "easy".

But for this one, I'm still torn. The coloring isn't really the issue and copy work can be done from any literature. I guess my struggle is: do I make him re-read something he's already heard or do I use that time to add in something else I want him to read without having to add it ON TOP OF what HOD already includes? I don't want to overload him. I already expect more of him than I do of the other two (with them being in lower levels), never mind when I account for his age. I struggle with how much he can do vs how much I should expect him to do (how much is too much?). I don't want to push him, but to allow him to still be a kid, although he's carrying (and quite well, I might add) a higher level of work.

I know that these decisions won't make or break his education, but I'm still having a hard time deciding which would be best for him. . .
Blessings,

[Carrie]

Ah! Thank you for reiterating that we are speaking of your 9 turning 10 year old. I was thinking we were speaking of your older son. So sorry! As far as your younger son goes, my reasons for including Shakespeare remain the same as do my thoughts of a child reading it to himself vs. having it read aloud. However, at this juncture you'll have to weigh what your thoughts are as to whether you feel it is too close to having recently done this type of thing for it to be beneficial, especially considering your student's age. For my boys, I always err on the side of having them do everything in the guide, as otherwise they somehow feel things are open to debate. I feel it also helps prepare them for the coming workload in the next guide. With your situation, you could definitely go either way with the Shakespeare study.

If you do need to add Canadian history, I would definitely recommend doing it on your free 5th day in order to not overload your student by adding more to an already full HOD guide schedule on the other four days each week.

As moms share on the board, I am often thinking about the other board readers who are reading the posts and their interpretation as to whether something is important in a guide or not. For that reason I didn't want to let the thread go by without clarifying the reasoning behind the Shakespeare study and the need to ponder before skipping it in the guide. Yours is an especially unique situation, so it definitely makes sense to do it either way.

Blessings,
Carrie

[Rice]

Ah! Thank you for reiterating that we are speaking of your 9 turning 10 year old. I was thinking we were speaking of your older son. So sorry! As far as your younger son goes, my reasons for including Shakespeare remain the same as do my thoughts of a child reading it to himself vs. having it read aloud. However, at this juncture you'll have to weigh what your thoughts are as to whether you feel it is too close to having recently done this type of thing for it to be beneficial, especially considering your student's age.

LOL, no problem! I'm not sure how you keep track of all you do!
My older son will do the Shakespeare the year after, and my daughter the year after that.
Still debating for this guy. . .

For my boys, I always err on the side of having them do everything in the guide, as otherwise they somehow feel things are open to debate. I feel it also helps prepare them for the coming workload in the next guide. With your situation, you could definitely go either way with the Shakespeare study.

Ha, ha! Yes! I definitely will not skip that all together - it would be replaced by something else that I wouldn't be able to fit in another way. So when he sees it in the guide, it's not a matter of debate but a matter of the teacher (me) making a decision to switch books for a particular reason. (And no, son, you do not get out of the copy work in that box!)

If you do need to add Canadian history, I would definitely recommend doing it on your free 5th day in order to not overload your student by adding more to an already full HOD guide schedule on the other four days each week.

We don't take the 5th day as a specific day of the week - we move directly into the next Unit, then occasionally take a "catch up" day to make sure everything is completed fully. Then, of course, we take days off as needed through the year. It will be a challenge to finish before the end of June this year like this (never mind try to finish "early" by the end of May!). Maybe once we are used to HOD (next year???) we can move to a Unit per week and take a 5th day for "other" subjects. It took till the end of November to get to Unit 10. (4 guides is not an *efficient* way to do school, lol!)

As moms share on the board, I am often thinking about the other board readers who are reading the posts and their interpretation as to whether something is important in a guide or not. For that reason I didn't want to let the thread go by without clarifying the reasoning behind the Shakespeare study and the need to ponder before skipping it in the guide. Yours is an especially unique situation, so it definitely makes sense to do it either way.

Thanks, Carrie. I will definitely encourage every mom to have her students enjoy Lamb's gentle intro to Shakespeare as you've planned it! It's been great for our kids (planned out slightly differently in AO, but similar idea) and my other ones will be doing it a second time as you've set it out in ResToRef - as you say, it's just this DS's unique situation that is making me consider doing things slightly differently for him. In addition to all the other reasons you mentioned, it certainly familiarizes them with "older" English and dispels the mystery and fear that so often surrounds Shakespeare (at least for those of us who approached it for the first time in High School in PS!).

Thanks for taking your time to answer my questions and give your input. Not quite decided yet but starting to let go of the stress surrounding the decision!
Blessings,

[Nealewill]

[We don't take the 5th day as a specific day of the week - we move directly into the next Unit, then occasionally take a "catch up" day to make sure everything is completed fully. Then, of course, we take days off as needed through the year. It will be a challenge to finish before the end of June this year like this (never mind try to finish "early" by the end of May!). Maybe once we are used to HOD (next year???) we can move to a Unit per week and take a 5th day for "other" subjects. It took till the end of November to get to Unit 10. (4 guides is not an *efficient* way to do school, lol!)

As an encouragement to you - this year has been tougher for my older dd than I thought it would be. We started off a little slowly as well - we always do for the first 10 units or so. It seems like at that point my kids are finally really comfortable with the volume and skills. They then start breezing through everything because they get it and they are in the groove. Well.....we have been set back recently! Last week my kids all had the stomach bug all week long. Plus, I had mouth surgery last week on Thursday. So no school that week. This week, we had co-op on Monday and then I tried to do school on Tuesday but it just seemed like no one could get their head in the game. Wednesday....I had the stomach bug! (Absolutely horrible, thought I was going to die.) So yesterday we attempted school again. Uhm....not so good We will be working hard again today hoping for a stronger day. Now, I will say my husband and I have found that this year our year is just too full. We are making changes for next year. The big change we have is we are dropping co-op for next year and probably forever. My co-op used to be more fun than educational. They have now turned it around and are more educational than fun. As a co-op, I do think they are absolutely fantastic! But with HOD, I really don't need a co-op at all anymore. They do such a great job of meeting ALL of the educational requirements - like art, science experiments, hands on activities and exploration. And my husband is great - we talked about whether or not I should consider using the co-op for an education class here and there and then skipping that box in HOD and my hubby says, "That is a bad idea. The kids would much prefer to do through HOD." He is right. So it boiled down to knowing I need flex in my schedule and know that dropping co-op is the way to get it! So I just wanted to say all this to you so that you don't feel like you are the only one with a full schedule and feeling like you are behind. I am set back farther than I prefer as well.

I also do know that this being my 2nd year with HOD, I did find this year a little bit easier than last year. Last year was tough because my oldest wasn't used to the independence and it took her a while to get used to it. This year she has done beautifully. She even has grown into the writing program (which I feared would never happen because she did so poorly with it for the first 2 units) and it does seem like our days are correctly balanced. We are currently on target to finish the first week of June if we only do 4 days a week of school. If we do 5 days a week in May, we will finish by the last week of May. This is with 2 upcoming weeks scheduled off. It is good to see that you wrote you have the extra flex day. I am sure that is helpful. My goal next year is try and do 1 unit a week, use the 5th day when we need it and just enjoy the year rather than feeling like we are trying to bust through it like a bull in a china shop.

[Rice]

Thanks, Daneale,
It's funny how years go. For so long I've been in a cycle of "baby year", "non-baby year", lol. This is our first non-baby year without a pregnancy but it was upset/consumed/overwhelmed by the change in curriculum. I am looking forward to next year with no foreseeable major changes. I'll have 2 (including my Shakespeare dilemma) starting guides at the beginning of September and 2 more switching back to partially completed guides near the end of November. It will be interesting to see if we find an equilibrium sometime before the end of next year, lol, though experience has taught me that there is always some state of flux when considering all the personalities and outside influences involved.

We, too, have pulled away from co-op, which evolved the other way, from organized educational to more fellowship/fun, as moms got too busy to plan *another* lesson. I'm not sure how much more we can pull back from outside activities and not end up reclusive! LOL. The older 4 have one sport and one church activity through the winter and the sport is generally family-friendly (4 kids in two levels of hockey with back-to-back practices on the same night or everyone in swimming lessons at the same night in the city - which I, of course, combine with my errands, etc.). The down side of no co-op is no fellowship with other homeschoolers - for them or me.

Anyway, I appreciate your response. I know school will always involve a certain amount of struggle, especially for one of my kids and especially considering how many we have (how little of me there is for all of them!). And that's okay.

Blessings,

[Nealewill]

You are welcome

And yes, you do have a full crew! You are an amazing homeschooling mama!