R2R with Foester's Algebra?

[tmstranger]

Hello! Happy to snow day to any of you in the northeast where we're being clobbered!

My son will be switching to HOD next year and my plan is to do R2R with him for his 6th grade year. He will ready for Algebra and I've been tossing around a switch in math curriculum.

I see that HOD recommends Foester's, so I wonder if there are alternative math plans in the Appendix for R2R that would include Algebra. I recently purchased the Bigger guide for my younger son and I see plans for different levels of Singapore, but I'm not sure what happens in R2R.

Thanks.

[StephanieU]

HOD doesn't give a specific schedule for any of the algebra books. You can see the pacing suggestiosn through in the (free) introduction to World Geography. Just a note though - most don't recommend Foerster's for children in 6th grade. Most recommend something like No-Nonsense Algebra first, moving to Foerster's in 7th or 8th. Foester's is a very advanced, "honors" algebra that I wouldn't want my kids to tackle too young (and I have a master's in math and teach college level math).

[tmstranger]

just to clarify, are you saying he'd do Algebra twice if we did no-nonsense and then foerster's? Is that just because of age/maturity? I know I've seen it mentioned before that sometimes algebra is difficult for younger kids because their brains aren't ready for the abstract thinking...is that what you mean?

I just want to be clear because my ds has always been way ahead in math and his public school counterparts will be tackling algebra next year (from what the teacher told me, it's algebra 1 and part of alg. 2), so I don't want him to fall behind them in case he needs to return to ps (he was in a class that was two years ahead). In regards to his math ability, I'm fairly confident in him as his ps math teacher told me repeatedly that he is very talented in math, so I guess my question is-- is the actual book itself written in vocabulary or terms that he will simply not grasp b/c of grade level? His math is very important to me and I second-guess constantly b/c he is so good in that area...I don't want him bored, but I also don't want him challenged so hard that his "age" can't cope and push through the hard stuff...does that make sense? It's hard to find the balance for a gifted kid. Also, he has a "late" birthday, so even though he'll be in 6th grade, his age puts him very close to 7th.

How do most of you handle a gifted, mathy kid to keep them challenged?

[Jennymommy]

Boy, I don't have that "problem" I do know that Foerster is advanced, and it has been a good challenge here. You could order it and look through. If it seems too heavy for right now, order the no-nonsense and save Foerster for later We also enjoy Life of Fred for a new angle and more relational approach. This is a supplemental item for us

[StephanieU]

No Nonsense is very basic with no fluff. So although it isn't really pre-algebra, it isn't a full algebra course for those going into anything requiring higher math. Another option is doing Video Text Algebra. This is the third option Carrie suggests. It includes pre-algebra through Algebra 2.

[Nealewill]

I can see that you are you saying your son is very mathy and you know your child best. My guess is that your child is 11 going on 12, is that correct?

My youngest is very gifted. While it may not look like it because she is doing Little Hearts this year at 7, I put her in Little Hearts because she did Beyond last year when she was 5 going on 6. And I didn't want to put her in Bigger hearts at 6, going on 7 because she wasn't in the age range. But next year she will do Bigger Hearts at 7 and move along through the guides that way. She is also ahead in math when compared with the guides. She did not use Singapore this year for math but is completing the equivalent of 2A&B this year. For her, I have found that understanding has never been an issue and she already knows most of her multiplication facts fairly quickly.

With her, the things I have taken into consideration for her education in general is the maturity of topics, her interest in the topics (meaning if she isn't interested, it will be more of a battle so maturity goes a long ways here too), and volume. The only thing that kept me from putting her in Bigger this year was knowing that topics get more mature in future guides. I also wasn't sure what her work ethic and commitment would be once she made it to Preparing if she got their a little early too. And skill wise, I know she could do it (she reads exceptionally well), but if she continued on a year ahead, I know that I do not want her starting CTC at 8. For math, these same thoughts go through my mind. Foeresters is a lot higher volume of work than Singapore. If the volume of work isn't going to be an issue for him and you think he would understand, then I would not hesitate to go into Foesters. If it is, then I would just do No-nonse Algebra for a year. I can't say that I am personally concerned about what level of math to do with my kids as it relates to school but I do know that I don't want to overwhelm them or push them too hard. With my oldest, I pushed her a bit hard and really regret it. She is now doing Singapore 4B and finds it easy but there are still things she is learning. And she isn't mathy either. I do know that currently all of my kids are target to complete all high school math by the end of their 11th grade year. But as I mentioned earlier, my oldest struggles the most. I may not let her move to Foesters until 9th grade depending on her level of commitment to the workload involved in Foeresters. But both my youngest and middle child are amazing with math and astound most people they meet. I will probably make them wait until they are 13 or almost 13 to begin Foesters only because of the volume involved and I want it to be easy for them.

[StephanieU]

There are also other ways to keep him challenged beyond doing higher level math. Maybe investigate some fun areas of math like tesselations and fractals. Study modular arithmetic. If you have been using Singapore US Edition, cover the basic probability and statistics that it skips (but standards includes). There is s lot more to math than just algebra and arithmetic, which I was surprised to learn as I got older and started teaching really. Khan Academy has videos on most of these topics so you could just do them as time and interest allow.

[tmstranger]

thank you for your input. this is our first year homeschooling, so we started with saxon b/c he liked the layout. Since he's been using that, I don't think the workload with Foerster's would be a problem. Saxon has a LOT of practice problems. He tested through the previous level of Saxon last summer to make sure he didn't have any gaps we would need to cover.

I also understand the maturity problem. That is honestly my only concern...that he will get stuck and not have the maturity to really work through the problems without getting overly frustrated and giving up. I guess I'd rather do Foerster's and go through the book slowly, taking as much time as he needs (even if it takes more than a year), rather than repeating algebra because we used an incomplete program. I fully expect him to move on to higher level math, so I want to make sure he gets a solid program, but even he doesn't want to repeat curriculum. Now, if he fails it or really needs help, that's a different issue. If we get started and realize he's not ready, then we can look at something else, too, but he's enjoying math, so I want to keep that up.

He actually covered tessalations and fractals in 3rd grade (in the 5th grade class)...we had to do a big project...it was painful! LOL! When he was in 4th grade, the teacher described the math as "middle school covering topics from 6-8th grades." I think he has a pretty solid base in math and it just comes easily to him, so really, my question is not about the "math" part of it, but the textbook that is described as high school level and how it is written. One of the big reasons we decided to homeschool was because he would be in a 6th grade GT math class this year, but still in elementary school...meaning there isn't a class for that, so they would have someone come over from the middle school one day a week to teach him and he would be expected to self pace the rest of the week...by himself. It just didn't seem like a good situation to me.

Again, I appreciate your feedback and taking the time to answer my questions. I did find the algebra pacing in the WG guide, too, so that was very helpful. I didn't realize that was there!

[Nealewill]

Another Algebra course I looked at was Video Text. Vocabulary for both programs is going to be higher level but with Video Text, it is all videos with an actual instructor. That might be another thought too.

[Carrie]

tmstranger,

The ladies are doing a terrific job of talking through possibilities with you. It helps so much to have a wealth of expertise and information at your fingertips like this board provides.

I am glad that you will get a chance to use HOD with your son this coming year. We pray it will be a blessing to your family!

In looking at math and the questions that you've shared thus far, I wanted to pop in to weigh in with a few things to think about. Having done Foerster's Algebra I last year with my own very mathy child as a freshman, I can honestly say that I would never recommend using Foerster's Algebra below 8th grade. The rigor of the problem sets, along with the maturity needed to think deeply about the topics presented within the coursework make it an honors level high school math course - not an early middle school math course, even for academically strong naturally math-minded kiddos. The Foerster text has been selected as the text for the AP Exam in high school Algebra in the past more than once. Plus, it is important to remember that there are other better ways to stretch and encourage a mathy student than picking a super rigorous math text that is years ahead of their maturity level.

With this in mind, you have several excellent options that have been shared by the ladies in this thread to consider. You could potentially continue with Saxon, since this is something with which your son is familiar. Or, you could instead do a basic no-frills introduction to Algebra through No-Nonsense Algebra and supplement with outside things in the problem-solving area to stretch him further mathematically. This could be very enjoyable as there are many wonderful math resources that you could add to get him really thinking mathematically.

Or, you could ponder doing Singapore Primary math, giving him the placement test for the U.S. Edition to see where he would fit best, being sure not to interpret any questions on the test for him but just letting him test away to see where he fits. It would not be uncommon for even a mathy child to have to begin back a bit in Singapore math, simply due to a differing scope and sequence and different way of thinking and solving problems. If he's a mathy kid he may really thrive on the unique Singapore method, the mental math, and the interesting way of solving problems. If you did want to just see where he might have to enter the program, you could begin with the 4A test and if he passes go on to 4B and so on until he no longer passes easily. The Singapore primary math series ends at 6A/6B (which in Singapore equates to the end of 7th grade).

Singapore is a totally different math program than Saxon. There is a huge difference in the number and kind of daily problems. Singapore takes much less time to complete each day, but includes more difficult multi-step problem sets incorporating review within the problems instead of as a separate daily component. Your math time would be much shorter with Singapore, but we find the time to be completely engaged time that lingers after the lesson is over. So, this may be an option for you to consider. If your son did test out of 6B, there is a 7th and 8th grade level different Singapore series you could consider. The series at that level differs from the previous Singapore series in style, presentation, and content. However, if you are new to Singapore math anyway, and your child excels at math, it may work for you. I would likely consider other options though, before placing my child in the 7th or 8th level of the Singapore series. Link here to placement test:
http://www.singaporemath.com/Placement_Test_s/86.htm

Another option would be to begin VideoText Algebra Module A and Module B, stretching them out over the year, or going at your son's pace. The VideoText program can be used successfully with younger kiddos at a slower pace over multiple years so that may be a good option as well. My oldest son did this program and enjoyed it!

Foerster really builds one lesson incrementally upon the other and would be best if moved through in one year's time to fully grasp the presentation and concepts. This is why the other math options would be better for your son's age and maturity level even with his strong abilities in math.

Anyway, I pray the Lord will give you peace as you ponder your options. With a 6th grader who has many years of math to go, there are more things to explore than Algebra. And, if you do go the Algebra route it will need to be with a program that takes the maturity of your student into account.

Blessings,
Carrie