Reading Struggles and the ER's

[mommybelle]

My 8 yo, 2nd grade daughter is currently in Beyond. We are working our way through phonics using a different program than those recommended. So, it is a much slower program. It has been great for her because I've felt all along that she has some dyslexic tendencies, but we haven't been able to really take off with any independent reading.

Back in July, I had her start with the first ER Bible, but when I switched to The Beginners Bible, she was guessing a good bit. So I put it on hold until I felt we were at a good place with phonics. When we finish this next phonics level in a few weeks, she will have learned almost all (but not all) of the phonics covered in The Reading Lesson.

When should I make that transition to the ER's since she is still missing a few rules. I know some kids pick up on this stuff on their own, but without being taught the rule, she doesn't seem to get it. She will also VERY often switch a, and and the interchangeably while reading as well as for and from. She occasionally will read words such as keep as peek or felt as left. With her being my oldest, I am just not sure how common this is at this age.

I am looking for guidance on whether I should continue phonics for now or start the ER's along with continuing phonics. I just feel like that as a 2nd grade, 8 yo, she should be reading more and be more fluent with her reading.

Thank you ladies for your advice!

[Nealewill]

First, if she has dyslexia then she won't be reading independently much yet. And that is okay!!! And it sounds like she just turned 8 (recently)? I think this is very normal My son couldn't really read independently until a month or so ago. He is 8 and has a June birthday but he has APD (auditory processing disorder). I did use a special reading program for him because of it - all about reading. He really only needed level 2 and 3 to get him over the hump. We started level 4 this year and he finished about 1/2 of it but we have stopped doing it. He doesn't need it anymore. And with AAR, we didn't start it until he was 7.5 and he wasn't able to decode any word over 6 letters. Now he is reading chapter books from the library of his choosing, reading most of the science from Bigger to me and will start DITHOR in the next few months. If it were me, I would pray about it and see where you think the Lord is leading. Depending on how long she spends each day reading, you could definitely add in the ERs and do both. That is what I did. I like my kids to spend 30 min a day reading to me. I break it up So we would have a phonics lesson in the morning for 15 minutes. And then he would have to read out loud to me for 15 min. He LOVED the ERs. I had him read all of those titles and most of the alternates. I did the same thing for my youngest - she didn't really do much with phonics at all because she was a natural reader. But she has read most of the ERs, most of the alternate titles and just reads, reads, reads....

I think her being Beyond is a great place for her to be and to not feel rushed. It seems like once kids get it, they get it! And if you have her start reading some of the ERs and she flying through them, then you will know that you can stop the other program. That is what led me to stop doing the other phonics program. My son was picking things up and reading them to me correctly - tough words he was reading correctly! The one thing for him that I will end up doing is I will end up having him practice word lists with me. SO BORING. But he actually doesn't care LOL. He doesn't process language like we do. And when he moves up in level with HOD, I will be pre-scanning his books every day and going over longer words and names to make sure he knows what they say. I have also looked at a special spelling program for him to help with how he views words and how to think about them. I have used All About Spelling for him and he does okay. We are currently taking a break and he is doing dictation but he freaks out with it. Spelling lists stress him out significantly too.

It is funny, God gave me 3 kids who are so uniquely different! My oldest has a lot of dyslexic tendencies. She needed special reading and special math. And LOTS of TIME!!!! She can read and she reads well now. But it took a lot of time to get her there. My son has auditory processing disorder. I have used a lot of dyslexic products for him. They have helped tremendously and I feel like he is now at a point where I have so much more freedom. But God was so gracious with my 3rd!!! That child taught herself math and reading at a very young age. I don't know what I would have done if I had 3 kids with special learning LOL.

I will be praying for you with your upcoming decision. The good thing is that if you start the ERs and eventually find you need more help, you can always then move to the next level of your phonics program. But I would encourage you to not give up and jump around. Once you decide what you are going to do....just do it I have a tendency to jump ship right at the beginning and not give things a chance. My oldest used All About Spelling for 2.5 years. After the first 2 years of AAS, I wanted to switch my dd to dictation but was scared. AAS was doing wonders for my oldest but I didn't necessarily think she needed to do it anymore. So I tried dictation. My oldest missed the first passage the first time. Then the next day she got it. Then the 3rd day she missed the passage I gave her. I jumped ship and I went right back to AAS. I was discouraged. This was back in August. Well, my dd just finished level 4 of AAS right before Christmas. I really prayed about it and felt like God was saying .... you know you want to do dictation, just do it already!!! So we did. The first day, my dd missed something in the first passage. On the 2nd day and 2nd go around she got it right The third day we did second passage. She missed something on her first try But guess what, we did dictation the next day !!!!! She got it right. She is now consistently getting them right. The other day she did a passage that I was sure she would have to repeat. She did it right the first time!!!! When I started dictation this time, I decided that I was going to give it a year. But at this point, we have been doing it for a few weeks now and I am sold! My dd's biggest problem she has right now is that she really needs to see words used to remember how to spell them and she needs proofreading skills. I feel like with all the reading, all the copywork and all the writing she is doing already - typing her papers up on the computer - is helping her with spelling too. I think dictation is the perfect balance. But starting out, change was a little hard. We just needed to preserver. So as an encouragement to you - don't give up right away if it seems tough. Give yourself and her time to work on it. And set a specific time frame for you to give it a good healthy effort. I always feel like time is my enemy and that I am going to screw up my kids. You aren't Give it time and see how she does. You may find that she is more than ready

[psreit]

My 11yo is dyslexic. Unfortunately, we did not do a phonics program consistently because I didn't know for sure what her problem was untold she was almost 10. It wasn't until we used part of an OG reading program for her dyslexia that I saw significant improvement in her reading. She was by no means reading independently and she still did a lot of guessing. When we got to a certain point in that program, it was basically giving one spelling rule after another and my daughter became very frustrated trying to remember all the rules. So, we quit that OG program.

Where did the ER books fit in? She started reading ER books probably when she was 8, before the OG program. She did okay on the first few books because the words were easier. At a certain point we stopped, because she got stuck on too many words. I remember Julie saying one time that if they miss one or two words on a page, that's okay. I hope I am correct saying that. But, there were too many words my daughter was missing, so I think we just got easier books to read for a while. I continued a phonics program because we hadn't finished a complete program. When we finally got an unofficial diagnosis of dyslexia and worked in the OG program, we had stopped reading other books because we were told in that program the child should only read books with words that had been covered in that program. (Charlotte Mason calls that twaddle) When we got to the point of frustration with the OG program, my daughter took an easy Little House chapter book and wanted to read it. That is one of the ER books she hadn't read. I was amazed. She did very well. I knew then that she was ready to do real reading. So, we picked up on ER books, along with other books along that level of reading and my daughter's doing great.

After the OG program, I thought we still needed phonics. So along with the ER books, I had her doing some phonics, but that was short-lived. I just came to the point where I decided I would talk about rules as we came to words she would get stuck on. Honestly, I don't believe she is even using many rules when she reads. I believe the constant exposure to words by reading and writing helps them remember them. So, I have totally stopped phonics and my daughter is finishing ER books. She still is not reading independently. Because of the dyslexia, she will still guess sometimes, but most often in the ER books, she can read many pages with no mistakes.

Hopefully this all made some sense. From what you said about your daughter, I would recommend letting her begin the ER books. You could continue with some phonics if you feel she would benefit, maybe finishing that level that would match up closely with the Reading Lesson. If she is struggling too much with the ER books, maybe you could find some easier readers to practice before trying the Beginner's Bible again. You will need to be the judge, but I would let her read. If she is dyslexic, independence may come slower, but if she can read, let her read. When my daughter guesses, I say look at all the letters, and then she usually gets it right. Dyslexics have a tendency to read by shape of the word without looking at each part of the word. Some days my daughter reads very well and some days I can tell she is not 'seeing' the word correctly. I can tell if she is reading by shape or if she is getting the letters mixed up. So, I just stop her and have her look closer at the word and most often she will say it right. I think she is doing more sight reading now than by phonics rules, so I say just let her read, read, read. That will bring improvement.

[Jennymommy]

I ended up using lots of fun, very easy readers with one ds. We would look at the pictures then cover them up and focus on the words, then "see" if the words made sense with the pictures. Otherwise he would guess the words based on the pictures and the story he made up about them. I would point out phonics rules as we went. This worked much better for him than the phonics programs I tried.

[mommybelle]

Thank you all so much for your encouragement and advice! This has been an uphill battle since I attempted reading lessons with her when she was five (but closer to six).

She turned 8 yo in October. The program I am actually using right now is All About Reading. But we have been using this program for two years this March, and we still haven't completed Level 2. She does seem to be picking up speed, so we are able to now knock out two lessons over a span of 3-5 days. I decided last night to see what words she could read from the end of The Reading Lesson. She actually did pretty well, but there was still that occasional skipping of letters or misreading of words (ex: she read "swell" as "sell" and "please" as "place"). And she constantly switches those easy words (a, the, and). It is just so hard and frustrating as I watch other kids surpass her in reading. I often wonder if I should have her tested for dyslexia, but then I wonder if it would really matter as I understand they would just recommend an OG approach anyway.

Nealewill, I've felt pretty good about her placement in Beyond because of her reading struggles, but then sometimes I wish we would have done Beyond last year. She is doing well with Beyond. She enjoys it immensely! And this is so wonderful for both of us because doing school is not a daily battle any more. I am using the list 1 spelling words with her, and she rarely misses them, but I know they get harder. So we shall see how spelling goes for her in a few more units. She will often mix the letters in words if she is writing something for fun (rian for rain, siad for said, frist for first). I guess that is pretty normal?

I am seeing some of these same dyslexic signs in my four year old (maybe worse). Sigh... But, I am working through Little Hands to Heaven with her, and this time around, I am NOT adding anything to it!!! We are just going to enjoy the ride because I see after using the three programs that we've used just how complete HOD really is! My oldest actually picked up on the idea today that spelling in Beyond is helping her with proofreading as well! So though the words may seem easy, I know there is a purpose behind everything in HOD!

All of your posts were a great reminder to continue forward. "Forward, steady progress" as I've read from both Carrie and Julie (I'm hoping I quoted that right)! I think we'll complete level 2 of All About Reading (since we are almost finished) for our morning reading lesson, and then in the evenings I am going to review some of The Reading Lesson units for the phonics rules that won't be covered until later AAR levels. And, then, we'll give the ER's a shot again! I know she has come a LONG way in two years, so I need to remember that if we do persevere, she will get where she needs to be eventually. And as nealewill mentioned, time is my friend, not my enemy! If only there were just a few more hours in the day as two 15-20 minute reading lessons seems cumbersome on some days with a 4 yo and 14 month old in tow.

Jennymommy - Thanks for the tip! That is a great idea as they often will guess at words if they are able to look at the picture. I think I'll try that when we start back with the ER's again.

Nealewill and psreit - I know I don't post often, but I always love reading your responses to others as I always take something away from your responses. You both pour your heart into this forum, and you have been such a blessing to many! Thank you!

[Motherjoy]

Also, try some eye exercises.
http://www.eyecanlearn.com/starting/

[psreit]

mommybelle - I think what you are doing is a good plan. Angie does a lot of the same things with words as your daughter. If it is dyslexia, AAS is as good a phonics program as Barton, now that I know what each is like. It's good you picked up on this early and have had consistency in teaching phonics. Since Angie was older when I realized what her problem was, I had tried several different things. I even stopped using HOD because of it. I know I wouldn't have had to stop, but we both were so frustrated and I didn't know what to do. So, you have an advantage. I must say that things worked out for the good in our situation. Since we didn't keep going with HOD, when we came back we picked up with the guide where we ztopped. That was where she placed best. Continuing two years ago would have pushed her through the guides too quickly. I just wish I would have had more consistency. But, this is where we are, and I'm thankful that some progress is being made.