CTC for 7th and 8th grade?

[mommydama]

I have done a search, but am having a hard time finding much. Not very good at this message board thing. Can someone point me to some resources for beefing up CTC for older children? We will for sure use the extension pack, but I need some help and suggestions for science and literature. I am thinking the Child's Geography may be a little young for them too. Any suggestions there? Maybe just use the Map Trek ancients? We have sure enjoyed that with MTMM guide we used this year. We thought about moving on to World Geography, but I think it would be overwhelming for my 7th grader. Also, my 8th grader will be starting at a public high school for 9th grade and they require World Geography or to test out of it. I don't want to put her through the stress of testing out and since they offer NO ancient history at the high school level in this district, it is the history time period I would love to cover again before they venture out.

Thanks for any input!
Dama

[StephanieU]

Here is a post on beefing up CtC for 9 th grade. You could use some of the ideas to beef up CtC.viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5400#p39633

[mommydama]

That is a very helpful post. Now I have more specific questions!

For the Storytime section in CTC should we replace those books from the basic set with the extension package for my older students to read alone? I wanted to add in some other literature to beef up the ancient stuff (possibly the Iliad and Odyssey, since I have strong readers). Also, on the sample pages for CTC it gives pages to read from the basic package and then says to read a biography of your choice. Is that biography in addition to the basic and/or extension books or is that the biography the child is supposed to be reading for DITHOR? If it is the biography from DITHOR it would be a good place for me to sub in some more intensive books like Unwrapping the Pharoahs and a book I've been dying to use called The World of the Early Christians.

Hope those made sense.

Dama

[my3sons]

That is a very helpful post. Now I have more specific questions!

For the Storytime section in CTC should we replace those books from the basic set with the extension package for my older students to read alone? I wanted to add in some other literature to beef up the ancient stuff (possibly the Iliad and Odyssey, since I have strong readers). Also, on the sample pages for CTC it gives pages to read from the basic package and then says to read a biography of your choice. Is that biography in addition to the basic and/or extension books or is that the biography the child is supposed to be reading for DITHOR? If it is the biography from DITHOR it would be a good place for me to sub in some more intensive books like Unwrapping the Pharoahs and a book I've been dying to use called The World of the Early Christians.

Hope those made sense.

Dama

HI Dama! For the Storytime section in CTC, there are 3 Basic Package options, and you only choose to do 1 of those 3 package options. If you choose the History-Related Basic Package option, the page numbers are scheduled in your CTC daily plans. If you choose either the Boy Package option or the Girl Package option, it is listed by the genre (i.e. biography), and then you divide the reading yourself over the allotted days noted in the plans (usually 20 days).

DITHOR is separate from Storytime, and it has its own packages of books. They range from Level 2 to Level 7/8 book packs. Or, you can choose your own books for DITHOR, and when you order a DITHOR package with the DITHOR TG, you also receive a "Sample Book Ideas List" that gives 10-15 book ideas for each level for each genre. When choosing your own books for DITHOR, the only guidelines are to choose a book that fits in the genre (i.e. if you are in the Biography genre, the book must be a Biography) and to choose only 1-3 books (1 larger book for 15 days of reading, 2 medium books for a combined 15 days of reading, or 3 smaller books for 5 days each reading for a total of 15 days of reading). The pacing is meant to be slower, in keeping with CM ideals, and it allows dc to delve deeply into a book to see plot development and character development.

As far as doing the Basic and/or the Extensions, for 7th/8th graders doing CTC, they should do both if able, and they can read both independently if able. This will immerse them in the time period and the history theme if you choose the History Interest for the Storytime Basic Package option (which I think you should, based on what you've shared).

One caution I wanted to mention, it doesn't seem like your dc are placed properly in CTC for 7th and 8th grade if they are capable of reading "The Iliad." Proper placement in HOD is pretty important, so you may want to double-check the placement chart to see what would fit best as you begin your year. I hope something here helps! CTC is a terrific guide - I just want to be sure that your dc are placed accurately, as the most wonderful guide can result in an 'off year' when dc are not placed well. God bless!

In Christ,
Julie

[mommydama]

They aren't placed well, to be honest. The issue is this: They will most likely enter public school for high school due to circumstances beyond my control. Our school system does not offer any ancient history at all. Since all of my children finished the "cycle" of history this year with a study of modern history (HOD MTMM), I would really, really love for them to study ancient history again before high school. I looked at the World Geography because it incorporates a lot of ancient and medieval history, but it is not a good fit for my youngest, who is dyslexic. I just love the way HOD is laid out, I love the book choices, and I love the Christ centered focus. I have yet to find another curriculum that works for our family as well and we have been homeschooling since kindergarten (so I've tried a lot of stuff!) I am in aquandry...and trying to MAKE HOD work for us again. It just may not. We have not done CTC, so I thought I could tweak it to work for us, but I'm getting the distinct impression it isn't the best choice.

[Carrie]

Dama,

In looking at your unique situation, I think we may end up with some very unique advice! I'm thinking that typically we don't want families to place their kiddos based on their history cycle needs, rather we want to place kiddos based on their needs skill-wise. However, I do see that your oldest may be attending public high school as a 9th grader, so this is a consideration as well.

With these thoughts in mind, I have a couple of things that you could consider. It sounds like you did MTMM with your kiddos last year, in spite of your 7th graders dyslexic tendencies. One thing that would be hugely helpful as we ponder options for your family is to know where each child places on the placement chart as an individual. Pay attention to only the first page of the chart. This will help us advise you better. Also, it would be helpful to know which HOD Guides your 7th and 8th graders have each completed. This will give us more information.

It is possible that your kiddos could gain much from CTC, RTR, or Rev2Rev. All are Bible-based and will cover history in a way that will be different from a public school setting. It is also possible that your two kiddos should be in different guides, simply due to the widening gap between them caused by the dyslexia. This may not be a bad option to consider, simply to prepare your 8th grader for the rigor and independence that will come with a possible public high school move the following year. Plus, it would be wise to have your 7th grader well placed where he/she fits on his/her own going forward.

Anyway, if you get a chance to pop back and share more info. about each one as a learner, where each one places as an individual on the first page of the placement chart, and what HOD guides each has completed that would be great! Link to placement chart: http://www.heartofdakota.com/placing-your-child.php

Blessings,
Carrie

[mommydama]

Thank you so much, Carrie!

My current 6th grader (7th Grader referred to in my OP) has never used a complete HOD guide. She did DITHOR level 4/5 with the girl's 4/5 books last year (her 5th grade year). This year she is taking history and literature classes at a two day a week private school type setting (I had the opportunity to teach there, so my girls took classes too). I am teaching a 4th-6th grade Modern History class there using SOTW, so she is taking that. She is taking a separate 5th-6th grade grammar and lit class that she is doing well in. Despite her dyslexia she is reading fairly well. She has been through several therapy programs to help with the dyslexia. We make some accommodations such as audio books or me reading aloud when she is tired and she reads many things on a kindle so that she can change font size and background. But, honestly, she is testing at grade level for reading comprehension at this point. I was planning to use the DITHOR reading guide at the 6/7/8 level with her most likely. I want to continue to challenge her, but not overwhelm her. I *think* that puts her kind of between the Resurrection to Reformation and Revival to Revolution category.

My current 7th grader (8th grader referred to in my OP) is not classified as gifted, but is an extremely self motivated and intense student. She is doing 8th and 9th grade level work in most subjects just because she flies through curriculum like nobody's business and supplements on her own. She did the MTMMs guide this year, just the left side of the page spread with the all the history, geography, economics, and presidents study along with her older sister who will be headed to public school next year. They both took a lit/grammar course at the school where I teach this year. Looking at the placement she is squarely in the MTMM category, though we did that one this year, so I feel she could probably move on to World Geo level work. She is the one that will likely follow her older sister to public school year after next.

All three girls did science and math at the school where I teach and the younger two will continue that next year, hopefully. I was not pleased with the lit/grammar thare and so would like to do that at home as well as the history/geography. We plan to use Analytical Grammar as my older daughter did a year of that and it was amazing for her. They all do a classical writing curriculum (Classical Compositions/progymnasmata) at the private school, so writing is covered. We loved the MTMMs stuff we did this year, though, as I said, we only did the left page side. That is likely what we would do again with any guide, as we do outsource a lot.

I really like the idea of getting another year of ancient history and literature in before high school, because, as I stated above, that is not required or offered at our public high schools. World History classes at the schools begin in the 1100s. We did an ancients study when they were very young (1st, 2nd, and 3rd grade respectively), but that is not sufficient to me. Our public schools do a year of ancient history in middle school, though I am not sure what year, so they are expected to know some things when they reach the high schools.

Hope that helps clarify our situation.

[mommydama]

I just keep coming back and editing, so I decided to add another post. I'm wordy. Sorry.

The more I look at the CTC guide samples and study the book selections, the more I think it would offer my 6th grader this year/7th next year daughter plenty of challenge because of the dyslexia, especially if we add the extension package and pick 6/7 books for DITHOR. She does struggle with the mechanics of writing still, though she is pushed very hard in that regard and is progressing without much angst. We read many of the history interest books when she was much younger (Cleopatra, City),but she was so young it would not hurt her to do them again. And I own them still!

My 7th grade this year/8th grade next year daughter would probably fit best in the World Geo guide. But that one is still difficult for me to be sure about. She likes it. She has studied the samples and read excerpt from many of the books over my shoulder and says she approves. I just don't want to overwhelm her and I keep reading that it is quite a leap from MTMM. She did well with MTMM, but we had a several issues of her not reading directions well and having to redo assignments which was not fun for either of us. I want to be sure I am not pushing too hard. The reality is that she pushes herself and is a perfectionist and regularly asks for more. But if I offer more, then she is stressed by it. So...yeah. She is a tough nut for me.

[my3sons]

Hi mommydama! It sounds like you are doing some good pondering about each of your dc's needs. Thanks for sharing your thoughts thus far! I am wondering if you could share about each of your daughter's writing? How much are each used to writing each day, and how many times about are they writing? How long are they used to schooling each day for the subjects you'd be using with HOD? I am also trying to figure out what your 6th/7th grader is able to read on her own, as we don't want to overwhelm her, but also want to challenge her enough with the material she is reading. CTC-RTR-RevtoRev - the level of reading and the amount of writing varies quite a bit, so when looking at the history resources your dd would be reading, I wonder which really fits her the best? Same with the writing. For your 7th/8th grade dd, I am also wondering about the above things. It is extremely rare for an 8th grader to do the 9th grade WG guide, and it is usually not recommended unless that student has completed a good portion of the previous HOD guides. If she hadn't already done MTMM, I think she'd place there. WG is a jump in skills from MTMM. It is also a lengthier day with quite a bit more reading and writing, as well as a jump in the level of reading/writing. I do understand this is a unique situation though, as you are planning on putting your older dd in public school. Hmmmm. If you get the chance can you share your thoughts about the questions I posted? That would help us so much!!!

In Christ,
Julie

[mommydama]

We have used the Charlotte Mason approach from the beginning of our homeschooling years (kindergarten), so lots of oral narration practice. We have used Simply Charlotte Mason plans extensively, while also mixing in some more classical approaches (ala Well Trained Mind/Bluedorns) along the way. All my girls began doing written narrations for me about the age of 10. They also have extensive training in outlining and summarizing.

My older daughter (7th/8th grade) is currently in the fourth level of the Classical Compositions curriculum and so is very comfortable and used to writing two to three page long papers on various subjects. She has also completed all the writing and narrations (left side of page spread) from MTMM without any serious problems this year. She did a bioeithics persuasive essay for her high school level biology class last semester with outline, research, and citations, receiving an "A" grade on it and will likely do another this semester. Writing is not a concern for her, we just want to continue forward momentum there. We have not used the English writing and grammar curriculums scheduled in the HOD guides because we had great writing and grammar curriculums we used already, but her writing and grammar experience is at or above grade level. This is true of her reading level as well. We have used DITHOR in the past several years (2 years, I think).

My younger daughter (6th/7th grade, dyslexia) does struggle more with both reading at writing. She writes on a daily basis for several classes; writing, grammar and literature, and history class. She is in the 2nd level of Classical Compositions and doing well, so she can narrate and summarize, though she often needs help getting through the initial reading assignments. Her history class requires summarizing sections of the readings from an outline two or more times a week, as well as discussions during class time. I'm not sure how to explain how much and what she can read on her own. She can usually read for a half hour or so a couple of times a day on her own, but if she is required to do more than that, will need me to read aloud to rest her eyes (she has tracking issues so it can be very tiring). She usually comprehends well whether she is reading on her own or is being read aloud to. Simpler language is always better for her, as the effort it takes just to read doesn't leave a lot of energy for figuring out unfamiliar words or phrases. Larger print is better, but that can often be accomplished with the kindle without sacrificing actual reading level and content.

It is still up in the air how many subjects they would each do from HOD. It depends on what is offered at the part time school next year and that catalogue doesn't come out until the end of this month. I would say they are all used to spending an hour at least four times week on history alone, sometimes more. My older daughter is used to spending 3-4 hours a week per core subject. Don't know if I am answering your quesitons or not! Hope this helps some! Thanks for working so hard to help me figure this all out!

[Carrie]

Dama,

Thanks for taking time to share more about your kiddos. That really helps, as we look at possibilities for each of student. In reading throught what you've shared, I am inclined to think that it is wise to look at the two kiddos individually for placement. With your would be 8th grader doing MTMM's left side this past year and weighing your younger student's dyslexia in the equation, I think the two kiddos belong in two different guides.

I would be inclined to place them where they fit on the placement chart simply so that they receive a forward moving experience skill-wise. I think that skills train kiddos academically for what is to come, and I also think that each HOD Guide has a strong Biblical focus along with the skills providing your kiddos with hidden, unexpected spiritual-related gems at each level of their education.

With this in mind, I would lean toward placing your younger student in CTC. I feel the readings, following written directions, and written component of the left side of the guide would be a good fit. You may also consider including the poetry with watercolor painting from the right side of the guide. The Genesis study and the Geography of the Bible Lands would also be a part of her day, with the plans from the right side of the CTC guide. If desired, you could have your older student join you for the alternating Genesis/Child's Geography part of the CTC study. These studies would fit very well with the World Geography Guide topics your older student would be doing and be enjoyable for your older student to join in doing with you. We actually did this with my oldest son when he was in 8th grade and my next son in line was doing CTC. It was a good time together for them, and my oldests hadn't done those particular things previously. Placing your younger student in CTC would allow for growth in her areas of difficulty without overwhelming her. It would put her on a solid, forward-moving path skill-wise and give her the exposure to the ancients that you desire.

For your older student, I would lean toward the World Geography Guide. The World Religion & Cultures study would be very timely, especially in light of the possiblity of her heading to school the following year. The explorer/history-based study of geography, woven with video footage and Biblical-based geography would provide a component to the study that she may not ever have the chance to receive again. It will impact how she views the world and give her a firm foundation for future, higher-level history studies to come. I would also strongly consider having her complete the logic portion of the plans too and probably the literature study. The Bible study is excellent as well and is included in the economy package. If you thought the Bible study in the World Geography Guide would be too much for your older daughter, you could instead have her Bible study be the Genesis: Finding Our Roots study and Child's Geography of the Bible Lands from CTC be her Bible study instead.

I think this path would be a good one in meeting the needs of both students. Feel free to pop back and share your thoughts!

Blessings,
Carrie

[mommydama]

Thank you again, Carrie! This is a relief to me and feels very right. I can now get down to the planning!

Dama