Narration -- helps with key word outline?

[FiveLittlePeaches]

I have a couple of kiddos in Res to Ref. There are times when they have difficulty doing their narrations in history and science. Since learning the IEW method for key word outlining, I've allowed them to work off an outline when doing their narrations. It has removed the stress and now the process is relatively pain free.

It's funny they don't have a problem doing the storytime assignments as written, but for history and science they seem to need a little help.

I'm wondering if working through a narration using a key word outlining is going to turn into a crutch. Any thoughts on the subject?

[Nealewill]

I personally don't think so. I think that is great. the whole point of doing a writing program is so that it can improve writing across the board, and the lessons learned transfer into use with other subjects. Even now a days, if I were to write a written narration, I would do some form of an informal outline. This would help me to organize my thoughts before putting the pen to the paper. And I personally plan to help my kids hone in on tools to help them write better as well. For CTC this year, my dd loves using the questions on the history box to do her written narration and she basically answers them in order with great sentences. Next year, I think she will need to do something similar to your kids because she will need a method for getting important information written down in an organized fashion.

[Gwenny]

I'm assuming you mean written narrations--not oral narrations?

[LynnH]

If you mean written narrations I would say it depends on how they are doing them. My ds has short term memory issues and after doing written narrations for several years and not seeing progress because he had trouble remembering things in longer readings I started letting him take very brief notes as he read. He just jots down 2 or 3 words when he wants to remember something. This has helped him remember more of the details. I have seen some drawbacks to this though. His narrations can look more like summaries rather than narrations. I have had to really work with him on making them come alive and not sound like he is just summing up what happened. It has also been more of a challenge to get him to establish his voice when doing it this way. This year he actually challenged himself to do his written narrations that he does for the lit books without using notes.

If your dc are sitting and writing a key word outline off the top of their head before writing, in order to get their thoughts straight, then I think that is fine. If however they are doing like IEW does and going back through the reading and writing a key word outline for each paragraph, then I see that as something I would wean them away from. At that point they really aren't doing a written narration, they are doing a summary or just rewording the entire piece in their words. It is my understanding that the point of written narration is for them to retell the things that stuck out to them and use some of the author's words and some of their own. They don't have to include everything in the reading, just the things that made an impact on them. The other problem I see is if they know they get to go back through the book and do a key word outline then they probably won't pay near as much attention when reading. I know I wouldn't. One of the skills learned in doing narrations is to learn to synthesis what you read in your head as you read. That really takes a very different level of thinking, which is why it can be challenging for dc.

[FiveLittlePeaches]

I'm assuming you mean written narrations--not oral narrations?

Oops, I guess I need to clarify. Originally I meant I allow them to take a few notes for the oral narrations required from the science and history readings. My dd says she's ready, then...she can't remember. So, just to jog her memory, I've allowed her to take some notes and work off those. Bad idea???

I just went through some papers in the school room so I could post what an outline looks like, but I couldn't find any. Their outlines aren't taken from every line like IEW. Just something to work off.

Lynn H, I don't have time to respond to your comments, but I just have a sinking feeling I'm allowing dc to cut corners. I'll try to respond later, because I need to start school now.

Just the same, thanks for the feedback. I appreciate your thoughts.

[LynnH]

I think it is ok to jot down some brief notes before oral narrations if that is what she needs to do right now in order to remember things, especially dates and names of places or people. With the longer readings they are allowed to briefly glance back at the reading for names of places or dates if they need to. I allow my dc to do this, but I have to make sure he doesn't rely on that too much. He started getting in the habit of reading sentences from the book in his oral narrations so I had to remind him that he was only supposed to use the book to jog his memory.

If this is their first year doing oral narrations then it will be a learning process. If it is their first year doing HOD then that would impact how much I would let them use something like notes. Also I think narrating things that are non-fiction is much more challenging than narrating story time so that might be why that is more of a struggle.

[Nealewill]

I'm assuming you mean written narrations--not oral narrations?

Oops, I guess I need to clarify. Originally I meant I allow them to take a few notes for the oral narrations required from the science and history readings. My dd says she's ready, then...she can't remember. So, just to jog her memory, I've allowed her to take some notes and work off those. Bad idea???

I just went through some papers in the school room so I could post what an outline looks like, but I couldn't find any. Their outlines aren't taken from every line like IEW. Just something to work off.

Lynn H, I don't have time to respond to your comments, but I just have a sinking feeling I'm allowing dc to cut corners. I'll try to respond later, because I need to start school now.

Just the same, thanks for the feedback. I appreciate your thoughts.

It sounds like you feel like it is a crutch. If you feel like it is a crutch, then I wouldn't do it. And I also thought you meant written narrations.

I personally am a HORRIBLE auditory learner! I can't remember ANYTHING anyone tells me. Books on taper are absolutely lost on me! I will forget what was read in less than 5 minutes, no lie! In college, I would take notes so fast in class that I would basically write down everything the teacher said and then I could read it later. Reading it was my way of committing it to memory. Writing didn't do much but I had to write it so that I could read it later. And if I read it, I was fine. I am amazed at how much my kids love me reading to them because I can't remember anything I hear unless I write it down and must then revisit it later. And I truly think we all learn differently. If you kids need to hone in a little bit on other tools to help them remember things better, I personally will allow it some. Now, I also think that working on listening skills is important too. I am not good in this area at all. If my kids end up like me (my son seems to already be just like me LOL), then I will help to encourage the listening aspect but not to the point of frustration and stress. That is just me though. I will let my kids take notes if they needed to and I don't mind that all....as long as it isn't interrupting me and I don't have to stop reading out loud to help them. If I have to pause or stop, then we will need to find another way because they need to be able to internalize information somehow without being interruptive. Make sense?