Letter Help, Again Please

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glperky
Posts: 490
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2012 6:38 pm

Letter Help, Again Please

Post by glperky » Wed Oct 08, 2014 6:14 pm

I have started to post this several times but I can't figure out how to make it make sense, so please bare with me. I have posted before about my son who will be 7 yo next month. He still doesn't know his letters or letter sounds. We have been working on them since he was three. So I believe this is beyond "He's just not ready yet." He doesn't even know the letters or sounds in his name but can spell his name. Anyway, we have been doing the Beyond List 1 spelling words, but not exactly the way the book says. We just follow days one instructions for several days and the move onto day twos. It takes us about two weeks to get through a list. He really enjoys doing it so we continue on. We also keep going because it seems to be helping him learn letter sounds. Sorry this is so long, but if you stuck with me my questions are:

1. Should we just keep on using this to help him learn his letter sounds?
2. Is there a phonics curriculum I could buy that would be simaliar to learning this way?
3. Any other ideas?

Thank you for your help, once again.
Married to my best friend since Oct. 1989
DS 25
DS 20
DS 12
DS 10
And one - waiting in Heaven

I am way outnumbered and loving it!

MelInKansas
Posts: 1700
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 7:32 pm

Re: Letter Help, Again Please

Post by MelInKansas » Thu Oct 09, 2014 12:30 am

It does sound like an interesting challenge and a big question as to why it seems so difficult for your DS. Do you suspect any kind of learning disability with him? Is that a road you have even gone down a little bit yet? That is something I would look at, at least start reading about and researching with reputable sources. Ask your local homeschool association if they have any resources, including specialists you can talk to and describe what you are seeing and ask them how it is best to proceed. Be wary of people or organizations that will tell you that the "only way to solve it is to put him in a classroom." I think this has been shown to be generally untrue. But you may need a specialist's help.

How is his speech? I assume since you don't mention that it must be relatively normal. When I think of a child having auditory problems, processing problems, very often there are speech delays as well. But if his speech is normal then it may be largely related to his ability to see/read the letters, not hearing the sounds or remembering the sounds.

All About Spelling and All About Reading are the most thorough, rule based programs and I think were written originally for children with learning disabilities of some type. They use a lot of different methods to help the child learn all the rules and be able to read and spell well. They are very tedious and time consuming since they are so thorough but sometimes you really have to work it from the foundation up. I think a lot of the CM style learning works really well for the kids who pick it up naturally on their own. Not that you wouldn't use CM style you would just find something that really seems to reach him and help him make progress.
Melissa
"The steadfast love of the Lord never ceases
His mercies never come to an end"

DD12 - Rev to Rev + DITHOR 6/7/8
DD10 - CTC + DITHOR 2/3
DD7 - Bigger + ERs
DS5 - LHFHG
DD2 - ABC123
2 babies in heaven

daybreaking
Posts: 317
Joined: Thu May 20, 2010 12:21 pm

Re: Letter Help, Again Please

Post by daybreaking » Thu Oct 09, 2014 11:23 am

If I were in your shoes, I'd be strongly inclined to have my child tested. It's one thing for a child to need time to "get" the idea of blending, and I don't think it's a big deal if a child is still learning to read at age 7, but if you've been working on letter sounds for four years and he still doesn't have them, that would be a red flag for me. My thoughts on this stem from my past experience as a teacher (special education, as well as math), where I worked with many students with learning disabilities. When a child is given a thorough evaluation, not only do you receive information about why he is struggling, you also will receive a variety of techniques to use to address the struggles.

Wife to one amazing husband and mother to two precious blessings from above:
ds22 & dd18

glperky
Posts: 490
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2012 6:38 pm

Re: Letter Help, Again Please

Post by glperky » Thu Oct 09, 2014 2:04 pm

MelInKansas wrote:It does sound like an interesting challenge and a big question as to why it seems so difficult for your DS. Do you suspect any kind of learning disability with him? Is that a road you have even gone down a little bit yet? That is something I would look at, at least start reading about and researching with reputable sources. Ask your local homeschool association if they have any resources, including specialists you can talk to and describe what you are seeing and ask them how it is best to proceed. Be wary of people or organizations that will tell you that the "only way to solve it is to put him in a classroom." I think this has been shown to be generally untrue. But you may need a specialist's help.

How is his speech? I assume since you don't mention that it must be relatively normal. When I think of a child having auditory problems, processing problems, very often there are speech delays as well. But if his speech is normal then it may be largely related to his ability to see/read the letters, not hearing the sounds or remembering the sounds.

All About Spelling and All About Reading are the most thorough, rule based programs and I think were written originally for children with learning disabilities of some type. They use a lot of different methods to help the child learn all the rules and be able to read and spell well. They are very tedious and time consuming since they are so thorough but sometimes you really have to work it from the foundation up. I think a lot of the CM style learning works really well for the kids who pick it up naturally on their own. Not that you wouldn't use CM style you would just find something that really seems to reach him and help him make progress.
Melissa,
Thank you for your reply. Yes, I do suppect leaning disabilities. My 22 yo and I have dyslexia and my 22yo has many other LD. I do suppect this son had dyslexia too. As far as his speech goes, it is good. I mean others understand him without problems. He does pronounce some words wrong such as he calls shoulders, "soilders." He also has problems with handwriting and makes letters correctly but makes them in all kinds of differnt ways. Such as sometimes he makes them bottom to or he will write a zero going right one time and left the next.

We haven't had him tested for any LD because in our State, if a child is tested for a LD and has one then the public school has to get involved and we don't want that. So I am trying to figure this out the best I can seeking help from those that have gone before me.

Thank you again for your help and reply.
Married to my best friend since Oct. 1989
DS 25
DS 20
DS 12
DS 10
And one - waiting in Heaven

I am way outnumbered and loving it!

glperky
Posts: 490
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2012 6:38 pm

Re: Letter Help, Again Please

Post by glperky » Thu Oct 09, 2014 2:05 pm

daybreaking wrote:If I were in your shoes, I'd be strongly inclined to have my child tested. It's one thing for a child to need time to "get" the idea of blending, and I don't think it's a big deal if a child is still learning to read at age 7, but if you've been working on letter sounds for four years and he still doesn't have them, that would be a red flag for me. My thoughts on this stem from my past experience as a teacher (special education, as well as math), where I worked with many students with learning disabilities. When a child is given a thorough evaluation, not only do you receive information about why he is struggling, you also will receive a variety of techniques to use to address the struggles.
Yes, you're right, there is a big red flag. We haven't had him tested for any LD because in our State, if a child is tested for a LD and has one then the public school has to get involved and we don't want that. So I am trying to figure this out the best I can seeking help from those that have gone before me.
Married to my best friend since Oct. 1989
DS 25
DS 20
DS 12
DS 10
And one - waiting in Heaven

I am way outnumbered and loving it!

Nealewill
Posts: 1611
Joined: Sat Sep 14, 2013 5:08 pm
Location: Cincinnati, OH

Re: Letter Help, Again Please

Post by Nealewill » Thu Oct 09, 2014 2:48 pm

I think you as the mom probably already know. For me - my oldest is dyslexic and my son is has auditory processing disorder. Both used special curriculum designed for reading and spelling because of their learning disabilities. The great thing with HOD though is that HOD steps up each level with work load volume. So my kids, since they used the special curriculum for these two areas have been able to move up in level easily with HOD too and not feel overwhelmed. My oldest's reading does take her a little bit longer but she preservers. My son, he struggles with sound things out but this whole year - he is reading at least 40 - 60 minutes every day during the school year. I know this sound mean to some but he likes what he is reading, some are harder books and some aren't. I break up the reading. But is true that practice makes perfect. He is right on the verge of being able to read well. And reading well is so important. But this year I am just investing time wise in his reading and spelling abilities so that he is going to be ready for Preparing next year. He already is doing a full day of Bigger with no problem - copy the Bible verses, writing out experiments with out copying everything from me as much, he writes one section in his grammar book no problem. He has really made a leap from last year because he doesn't exactly like to write :-) But he is getting it done! So this year, we haven't started DITHOR yet because he just needs to focus on reading, reading, reading and more reading LOL. We plan to DITHOR sometime after Christmas but I may even wait till next year to start it. I am just not sure :-)

I am praying for you though. I found that my older two really struggled until I found what to spoke to them learning wise. I wouldn't necessarily feel compelled to call the school because you already know something is off. I would probably just starting look at different places that sell curriculum geared toward dyslexic students. I used the All About Learning company for my two oldest. I know many other parents have used the Logic of English also but it looked like it had a lot more that just phonics instructions. And the great thing about using the dyslexic products is that you don't have to use them forever. They teach some special tools to kids with these unique learning styles that they can then adapt to any curriculum they are using after a while. Plus, I can still use everything else from HOD guide just the way it lists it and my teaching time is still similar to what the guide states.
Daneale

DD 13 WG
DS 12 R2R
DD 10 R2R

Enjoyed DITHOR, Little Hearts, Beyond, Bigger, Preparing, CTC, R2R, RevtoRev, MtMM

MelInKansas
Posts: 1700
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 7:32 pm

Re: Letter Help, Again Please

Post by MelInKansas » Thu Oct 09, 2014 3:04 pm

Are there not any specialists that work outside of the school system? Or again, if you belong to a homeschool association they may have resources as well. I understand completely your hesitation and not wanting to get involved in the public school system. Surely even if you shot something out to your HS association group (we have an email list) if anyone else has experience with these issues you could find some to connect with. I suppose it depends on whether you are in a rural area or a city. I know a friend of mine in Kansas City has found a lot of good referrals and resources as she has been seeking out help for her daughter who is 7 1/2 (which these have all come from within the homeschool community).

I think having a name for what is going on would be very beneficial for you and for him. It would help you know which direction you should go and help you start looking at resources and methods that can help him make progress. If you are really sure it's dyslexia then there are a lot of resources available out there... I do not know of many of them but I am sure others do.
Melissa
"The steadfast love of the Lord never ceases
His mercies never come to an end"

DD12 - Rev to Rev + DITHOR 6/7/8
DD10 - CTC + DITHOR 2/3
DD7 - Bigger + ERs
DS5 - LHFHG
DD2 - ABC123
2 babies in heaven

glperky
Posts: 490
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2012 6:38 pm

Re: Letter Help, Again Please

Post by glperky » Thu Oct 09, 2014 6:34 pm

Daneale,

Thank you for your encouraging words and prayers. From all my research I do think my son has both dyslexia and auditory processing disorder. I am just not quiet sure where to go from here.
Married to my best friend since Oct. 1989
DS 25
DS 20
DS 12
DS 10
And one - waiting in Heaven

I am way outnumbered and loving it!

glperky
Posts: 490
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2012 6:38 pm

Re: Letter Help, Again Please

Post by glperky » Thu Oct 09, 2014 6:38 pm

MelInKansas wrote:Are there not any specialists that work outside of the school system? Or again, if you belong to a homeschool association they may have resources as well. I understand completely your hesitation and not wanting to get involved in the public school system. Surely even if you shot something out to your HS association group (we have an email list) if anyone else has experience with these issues you could find some to connect with. I suppose it depends on whether you are in a rural area or a city. I know a friend of mine in Kansas City has found a lot of good referrals and resources as she has been seeking out help for her daughter who is 7 1/2 (which these have all come from within the homeschool community).

I think having a name for what is going on would be very beneficial for you and for him. It would help you know which direction you should go and help you start looking at resources and methods that can help him make progress. If you are really sure it's dyslexia then there are a lot of resources available out there... I do not know of many of them but I am sure others do.
Melissa,
Yes, I would love to have a name for what is going on and too think it would be beneficial. There are specialist that work outside the school system however they are suppose to report or our PC is suppose to report if a child has been tested and what the results are. I really haven't found a way around it. Thank you for your input though. I am open to any help I can get.
Married to my best friend since Oct. 1989
DS 25
DS 20
DS 12
DS 10
And one - waiting in Heaven

I am way outnumbered and loving it!

chillin'inandover
Posts: 151
Joined: Thu Jul 25, 2013 9:05 am

Re: Letter Help, Again Please

Post by chillin'inandover » Thu Oct 09, 2014 9:47 pm

When my daughter seemed behind in her speech I had her evaluated by the ps. If I had sought help earlier than three it could have been a different agency. It was very intimidating to have a team come to our home and evaluate my daughter. She received preschool at the ps for free. We received parent resources for raising our "autistic" daughter. It was a stressful time, but leaning on The Lord allowed this season to be a blessing. I questioned the educational experts so we had a private evaluation. She was not given the autistic dx. She was in the average to below average for language. Upon completion of preschool we withdrew her from her IEP as we intended to continue to hs her. For our protection we joined HSLDA. They have been an excellent resource. They have provided a listening ear and many helpful resources to school her at home without ps intervention. Part of the IEP involved speech and communication group. She received private speech therapy that we paid for so that the ps would not involved be involved. Due to finances we had to stop the private speech therapy. HSLDA helped so that we could do this at home and still be in compliance with her IEP.
I have used all the HOD guides and they have been a tremendous help. I had her evaluated by a speech therapist in first grade. She tested normal so I know longer need to concern myself with the IEP. I still am a member of HSLDA.

She has had several hearing tests and has mostly passed. At low frequency she does not hear sounds or is slow to respond. It would be more of a nuisance to correct this with hearing aids so her soft spoken family has learned to speak loudly, avoid background sounds, and slow down or repeat. I added some phonics books past reading instruction that were inexpensive and this has given her a boost in language. Seeing the words in proper sentences helps with her comprehension and gives her feedback for some of the impaired auditory input.
I know this is a lot of info and perhaps not what your son is struggling with, but I just wanted to share some of my journey to help give you some direction. In summary I would contact HSLDA and become a member. They will help with legal aspects of homeschooling. They are an excellent resource for struggling learners and can help you with what direction to go. Also, a private tutor evaluation (not through the school) for dyslexia would be beneficial. HSLDA and your state hs organization will know who provides this. I would like you to know that the message board is full of families who educate struggling learners. Don't be discouraged lean on The Lord, who cares so much for you and your child(ren). HOD has been an excellent curriculum for my family (22 yo to 8 yo). Our hearts for God is the most important learning and HOD is spot on with getting our child's heart with God. My 22 and 20 yo were in ps for 3,1 years. They both received after school and summer school help for reading. So even after a full day with the professionals they still weren't reading. When I started hs I had them evaluated by a private tutor in Orton Guillian techniques. I wanted to make sure I was doing hs right for them. Neither dd needed the tutoring I just needed some techniques to teach them. They both were reading with 1:1. They didn't live reading until I stumbled upon HOD. This changed everything. They are now adults and avid readers. I have not allowed the ps to discourage me. The Lord has given me 4 children who have needed this hs education and given me tools to succeed. The Lord cares about each one. All has been to His glory. I have learned to seek. Blessings as you find answers. Press on.
Tammy
Wife of 32 years
Mom to 4
DD 29 Technical Manager FA, Playwright, Producer, Lighting Designer
DD 28 Master in TESL, Lead ELL teacher 3rd grade
DD 19 AAS welding
DD 16 , WH
Home Educator since 2000 HOD LHTH-US2

chillin'inandover
Posts: 151
Joined: Thu Jul 25, 2013 9:05 am

Re: Letter Help, Again Please

Post by chillin'inandover » Thu Oct 09, 2014 9:57 pm

Sorry about the typos above. I have lost so many messages on the board I don't dare fix them.
Tammy
Wife of 32 years
Mom to 4
DD 29 Technical Manager FA, Playwright, Producer, Lighting Designer
DD 28 Master in TESL, Lead ELL teacher 3rd grade
DD 19 AAS welding
DD 16 , WH
Home Educator since 2000 HOD LHTH-US2

Rice
Posts: 526
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 10:00 am

Re: Letter Help, Again Please

Post by Rice » Fri Oct 10, 2014 7:10 am

Tammy, thank you for your post. Coming from a different situation (dealing with struggles for years and recently discovering that Dysgraphia, Executive Functioning deficits and maybe ADHD symptoms fit our son 12yo son very well) your post spoke to me as well. It is one I hope to return to in the coming days/weeks/months as we discover what we need to do (testing, modification of expectations, etc., etc.) to improve our school days and our son's life skills for the future.

Blessings,
Rice

DS 21 - GRAD '20: after WG
DD 19 - GRAD '21: after WH
DS 17 - GRAD '22; did CTC-WH + 2yrs non-HOD (🇨🇦)
DS 15 not using a guide this year (DONE: LHFHG-MTMM)
DS 13 MTMM (DONE: Prep-Rev2Rev)
DS 11 +
DD 9 CTC (DONE: Prep)
6yo DS phonics

glperky
Posts: 490
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2012 6:38 pm

Re: Letter Help, Again Please

Post by glperky » Sun Oct 12, 2014 2:54 pm

Tammy,

Thank you for your post. It gave me some things to think about and look into. We are members of HSLDA but hadn't even thought of calling them to see if they can help us get around having the public school involved if there are LD. Thank you for sharing your story.
Married to my best friend since Oct. 1989
DS 25
DS 20
DS 12
DS 10
And one - waiting in Heaven

I am way outnumbered and loving it!

my3sons
Posts: 10702
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2007 7:08 pm
Location: South Dakota

Re: Letter Help, Again Please

Post by my3sons » Sun Oct 26, 2014 4:51 pm

Thank you for sharing about your ds! There is much wise advice here to help. The ladies have excellent thoughts moving forward! I can empathize with your situation in regard to testing. That is tricky! I do think you could find a specialist outside of the school setting who could do some testing, however, I know choosing that person can be difficult. I am wondering if you would mind sharing just a few things, and I am so sorry if you have shared this in past posts, as I can't remember the details. Did your ds ever do "Little Hands to Heaven?" What has ds done for phonics programs, and was he able to complete any fully? How specifically is ds doing the Beyond spelling words over 2 days? (I am trying to figure out what is working well there to recommend what may work well for a phonics program.) If ds was given a set of letter flashcards one at a time, could he say the letters or sounds of any/some of them? If ds looks at letters/words, is he able to copy them correctly when looking at that model, or is he unable to write at all (other than his name)? One last question - have his hearing and vision been tested lately? Has he had a tympanogram for his hearing? I am very sorry for all of the questions, but I'd like to gather more information and discuss this with Carrie too. Thank you!!! :D

In Christ,
Julie
Enjoyed LHTH to USII
Currently using USI
Wife to Rich for 28 years
Mother to 3 sons, ages 23, 20, and 16
Sister to Carrie

glperky
Posts: 490
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2012 6:38 pm

Re: Letter Help, Again Please

Post by glperky » Sun Oct 26, 2014 6:34 pm

my3sons wrote:Thank you for sharing about your ds! There is much wise advice here to help. The ladies have excellent thoughts moving forward! I can empathize with your situation in regard to testing. That is tricky! I do think you could find a specialist outside of the school setting who could do some testing, however, I know choosing that person can be difficult. I am wondering if you would mind sharing just a few things, and I am so sorry if you have shared this in past posts, as I can't remember the details. Did your ds ever do "Little Hands to Heaven?" What has ds done for phonics programs, and was he able to complete any fully? How specifically is ds doing the Beyond spelling words over 2 days? (I am trying to figure out what is working well there to recommend what may work well for a phonics program.) If ds was given a set of letter flashcards one at a time, could he say the letters or sounds of any/some of them? If ds looks at letters/words, is he able to copy them correctly when looking at that model, or is he unable to write at all (other than his name)? One last question - have his hearing and vision been tested lately? Has he had a tympanogram for his hearing? I am very sorry for all of the questions, but I'd like to gather more information and discuss this with Carrie too. Thank you!!! :D

In Christ,
Julie
Thank you Julie for responding. I don't mind answering the questions becuase I need help and value the input from your, Carrie and all the helpful ladies here.

I could find a specialist here to test him but if he needs help, they are still suppose to turn it into the school district and then they get involved even of we stay with the specialist.

We never did Little Hands. We started with Little Hearts. As far as Phonics goes. He has done Leap Frog, McRuffy K Phonics, and we have tried The Reading Leason. He has not gone through any of them because he just shuts down when/if we get to blending. Oh we also tried Child 1st. It didn't work, at all.

For the Beyond Spelling words, here is an example. We take list 1 week 1 and do the day one activity for a couple of days and then we do day two act. for a couple of days, and so on. Since we started doing this, he has learned more letter sounds, more so by doing this then anything we have tried. Often though, I have to give him hints for the sounds from Leap Frog.

As far as the flash cards go, he would know some but not even half, I would say.

Writing- he LOVES copy work. It takes a lot of effort but usually he copies the word correctly. Sometimes he will leave one letter out. He does write his letter diffenetly all the time. For example sometimes bottom to top then top to bottom. Or he will write a "O" going right one time and left the next.

Haven't had his hearing or eyes checked yet. That's also a big issue in this state. He will be tuning 7 in Nov. so I will be bringing this up at his Well Check. I called in the summer to see if I could get some referrals but they would not until this well check and if they don't see a problem, they will not refer him.

Thank you for your help and any input. If you need more information please ask!
Married to my best friend since Oct. 1989
DS 25
DS 20
DS 12
DS 10
And one - waiting in Heaven

I am way outnumbered and loving it!

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