Can we talk Science please?

[Sue G in PA]

Part of the dilemma of having an older child use the lower guides is the Science content not being "enough". :/ What do you do? Tweak? Ditch the HOD Science in lieu of something else? Do the science as scheduled in the upper guides? So, I have my 8th grader in CtC. He is academically behind in most core areas...math, writing most definitely, spelling, grammar, etc. However, he can read, process, comprehend and understand at grade level. However he does not enjoy reading and it is a huge ordeal for him..even though he CAN read on grade level doesn't mean he is motivated to do so. Make sense? CtC is turning out to be perfect for him in so many ways. But as I look ahead to Science and mapping out his next 6 years (we are likely going to call this year "7th" for him to give him another year before he has to think about high school level work). So, for next year, there is Apologia Astronomy and God's Design Science. Has anyone used the Astronomy with an older student who hasn't had much in the way of Astronomy? Do you beef it up or require more or???? And, I know God's Design says it is appropriate for 1st-8th but is it really? I am toying with using part of the Apologia Physical Science with him next year, skipping the parts that are more Physics oriented since that will be covered in the Exploration Education Physical Science (which, to me, is more of an Intro to Physics and not Physical Science). He could then use the EE Science as a high school credit in Physical Science. Any thoughts on this? From there I would likely have to ditch the Chem in MtMM in lieu of a more advanced course, right? I have Chemistry 101 which is high school level so perhaps I could use that instead? Any thoughts on this, even if they differ from what I have already brainstormed, would be appreciated. Thank you!

[Daisy]

Personally, I'd have him start PAC Integrated Chemistry and Physics but space it out over his 8th and 9th grade year. Then give him 1 credit for Int Chem/Phy on his high school transcript.

[Sue G in PA]

Start PAC next year? Hmm...that's an idea...

[StephanieU]

So, if you are considering CtC as 7th grade, then RtR would be 8th, Rev2Rev 9th, MtMM 10th, WG 11th, and WH 12th. The history maps out perfectly, with US history for 9th and 10th, and then world geography and world history at the end. You will probably want to add to the history in 9th and 10th to add government and economics, but Carrie has great recommendations for that in the "beefing up" posts.
Now for science. Rev2Rev is physical science, MtMM is chemistry, WG is physical science, and WH is biology. There are lots of ways to beef up the chemistry in MtMM, and this is laid out in the "beefing up" posts if you want to look at it. The Chem 101 videos I am fairly certain is the most common suggestion - just adding that to what is in MtMM. I think the biology in the WH guide would be fine, even if you wait until 12th grade to do it. So, then the "issue" is the two physical sciences. I think that would depend some on his future goals. The courses don't overlap in content other than the basics (which woudl be covered in physics or chemistry regardless of level), and both courses are high school credit worthy, If you didn't do both of them, then the question often becomes what other science would you do - physics? anatomy and physiology?? some sort of engineering? That is something to ponder for sure.

[Sue G in PA]

As I ponder this even further, I am thinking about ditching the Land Animals study in this Guide (CtC). While I love Carrie's activities and projects/experiments and some that are listed in the text, I do not feel it is a very "important" topic to be studied in depth (at least not for us and not at this point). My boys are only tolerating this text at this point anyway..it was never on my "wish list" of Apol. Elem. Guides to use. :/ I'm thinking about using it as a read-aloud as interest dictates. KWIM? So, I am considering either Apologia General Science (omitting the last 5 Modules on Human Anatomy as we studies this in depth last year) OR CKE Chemistry. General makes the best sense considering it would give the boys a "foundation" of sorts in many different science topics. For RtR, I would use the Apologia Astronomy but omit God's Design and use the first 8 Modules of Apologia Physical and Module 16 (the other 7 Modules overlap with topics studies in EE the following year). That leaves EE Physical Science for RevtoRev to use as written and to count as a high school credit for my 9th grader (technically my 10th grader but remember he is "behind") and Chemistry in MtMM...adding in Chem 101 to obtain high school credit for both boys. Both could then do IPC as written in WG and then Bio in WH. My younger son would then have his 12th grade year using either the Science of his choice OR the science scheduled in the next Guide if we decide to use it. What do you all think of that?

[Nealewill]

One of the reasons I chose HOD was because they had a wonderful variety of learning opportunities and they used such diverse and hands on programs for teaching. If it were me (and this is JMHO), I would have him do the Exploration Education Curriculum - Advanced level only for this year (Rev to Rev). This is would be 5 days a week and is VERY engaging and hands on. This may help to spark an interest in school. It would be on grade level and I think he could do it. It also doesn't seem to be overly filled with tons of handwriting. But it is very hands on - he would create pieces and then he would use them as part of his scientific experiment. Then I would just go down the line with the different levels of science recommended by HOD.

8th grade - science from Rev to Rev - advanced kit only. Probably don't need to the HOD guide for Rev to Rev because the advanced kit is schedule 5 days a week.
9th grade - science from MTMM - this would be chemistry. I would also add in the 101 Chemistry DVDs to make it high school worthy. You will probably need to get the HOD guide for this year.
10th grade - science from WH - Biology PACE - you probably don't need to buy the HOD guide.
11th grade - you could either do science from WG for physics/chemistry or pick the science from their final guide that they will publish in a few years
12th grade - some states don't require 4 years of science. You could pick whatever you want or not do science.

If you plan to do 4 years of High School science, I would probably complete the science for WG in 11th grade and then pick their final science selection for his 12th grade year. If not, then I think you have a lot of freedom to choose what you want since you finished Chemistry and Biology by 10th grade. Also, the physical science you completed in 8th grade is high school worthy.

And finally, one reason I specifically selected the HOD resources is because they do not use the Apologia textbooks for 7th through 12th grade. I am biased so I will say that upfront. But I have been teaching science at my kids co-op for the past 4 years and have taught Biology, Chemistry and Human Anatomy. With Chemistry, they never used any chemicals at all, all experiments used household products only. Our experiments were things like taking the shell off of an egg, or seeing how bases and acids work by using vinegar and cabbage water. We have already done those experiments and my kids are young. So that made me kind of sad. Now granted, I did learn the "science" of how it worked formulaicly (which my student's probably don't even remember at this point), but my students felt the experiments were too simplistic. Also, I was not homeschooled so we got to do all kinds of awesome stuff in a lab in high school. My husband was homeschooled and his parents used Abeka (because there just wasn't much out there 20 years ago) and he even got to use dangerous chemicals. So for my kids, I want to burn something or blow something up LOL. I want them to learn responsibility but at the same time, I want them to really experience science. For Biology and Human Anatomy, it was dry. I have not used their physical science but I have heard parents complain about it being boring. And I did help in the physical science class once and they timed how long it took a potato to fall from the ceiling to the floor. Again, very simplistic experiments and the kids seemed bored. And the only reason I teach using the Apologia books is the co-op and most parents specifically desire that vendor for junior high and high school science.

For me, I love science. And I want my kids to love it too. The resources that HOD uses are very CM and very engaging. As kids get older, yes they need to learn more information and sometimes it is difficult to deliver it without it being textbookish. But my kids just don't remember all that much when reading a textbook if they aren't engaged. Yes, eventually they will go off to college and it won't be geared toward the CM style of learning but they will be fine. The resources used by HOD will definitely prepare them well for their life after homeschool.

[Sue G in PA]

Hmm..well, that is something to consider, Daneale. I won't be able to afford the higher Guides along with our current ones so I would have to do science w/out the use of Carrie's plans. While I can't say I love Apologia Science, I do not hate it. For the time being, I have decided to finish Land Animals. After much prayer, I realized that the most pressing issues with my middle boys are not science-related, but rather basic skill-related. Reading and writing, for example and focus and attention for my 13yo. I've been looking into Dianne Craft's right-brain material and her at-home exercises for kids who are struggling learners. The time spent in doing this with my boys will be significant and having a rigorous or challenging science right now just isn't the priority. So, I am going to have my 6th grader do the science as written in CtC even though he has already had Human Anatomy last year. At least it will be familiar to him. For my 8th grader, I think I am going to have him compete Modules 1-10 of General Science (skipping the last 5 b/c he did Human Anatomy last year and does not like it much, lol). Next year, I will have him do Astronomy as written but sub in Apologia Physical instead of the God's Design for 2nd part of year. The first 8 Modules of Physical are more Earth Science related and do not overlap the EE Physical Science he will do the next year. For my 6th grader, I am not sure what to have him do, lol! Perhaps just do RtR science as written. Thanks for all the suggestions!

[Nealewill]

Sounds like going forward you have a well though out good plan It is hard - I too love HOD and the plans. I wouldn't want to go at without them either.