HOD vs. Ambleside Online?

[calihil]

Hey everyone. Im new to this board and I wanted to ask if anyone has ever used both HOD and/or Ambleside Online. I'm really drawn to the CM method (my oldest is 5.5 yrs old, btw, will be K year this fall) so I love the idea of Ambleside Online, reading all those classic books full of virtues and wonderful language and thought provoking ideas. On the other hand, I really like HOD, how Christ is woven into each lesson. I also like how American history is the focus in the early years. I know it uses a few classic books, but not enough for my liking, TBH. Has anyone kind of tried to combine HOD with some of the books used in AO? Like, maybe for the Free Reading books? I'm just trying to make up my mind and without being able to get my hands on a HOD guide, it just makes it difficult! lol Hope all of this makes sense. Thanks!

[Kims]

I have trouble implementing AO. I have all the resources here that should be able to help me implement it. Leslie Laurio is in our local CM group. We have a wonderful living books library here that will help you with whatever you need and I still have a problem implementing it. We have two wonderful CM co ops that meet weekly. It should be easy. I can even go to the living books library and get help with them figuring out what I will need. They will even pull it for me. You would think it would be easy for me, but I think I am challenged. LOL
I need more structure and I need the daily plans laid out for me. I have homeshcooled 16 years and I think all those years of being eclectic and pulling it all together has taken it's toll. I need the structure and the ease of HOD. I also love that it's all Christ centered and focuses on Christ in History and I don't have to pull that together myself.
I know that didn't answer your question I am sorry. I just wanted to say that I feel that HOD is easier to implement and your child won't be lacking in education.
I think adding in your own books would be fine though because the DITHOR books are not tied into the history or science. They could be if you wanted though.
I am sure I wasn't much help but I hope it sparked something.

[LynnH]

I looked at Ambleside Online before choosing HOD and honestly I think they push books way too early. HOD uses many of the same books but at what I consider more age appropriate times. I don't want to have my dc read a classic just to say they read it. I want them to be mature enough for the content and able to fully appreciate the book. For example I see that Men of Iron is scheduled in the year 3(3rd grade) reading, HOD schedules that as part of the 9th grade literature program. I just read Men of Iron and I can't imagine having my ds read that any earlier. So much of it would go right over his head. My ds will fully appreciate the book this year because of all the studying of history he has done before it. They also suggest Trial and Triumph as early as 2nd grade! That is a very graphic book and Carrie waits until 10th grade when dc can handle it. Ambleside also schedules the same history spines a few years in a row without any consideration for the age of the dc. HOD carefully picks the history spines based on the ages of the children and the length of the readings also correspond to the age of the child. And of course as others have said the bible is fully integrated in to HOD and the first priority is to have dc develop a relationship with the Lord and to know that the one book they can depend on to have the truth is the Bible. My ds also really enjoys all the hands on activities of HOD and how easy the activities are to implement. I think that is something that makes HOD unique. It is well balanced between reading, writing and fun activities.

[Rice]

My oldest just completed Year 5, second oldest Yr 3.5, third Yr 2 and fourth Yr 0.5 of AO. I LOVE AO, but this year we are moving (lock stock and barrel) to HOD. I am truly sad to be leaving the richness of AO and the book lists BUT my move here is because I can no longer keep up with planning for 4 years of AO at a time and sourcing all of the books (for which there are more and more choices as they reach HOE - ie Year 7 and up).

I know that looking at the AO list seems like a lot for them when they are young but they also say (and I have found it to be true) that we often underestimate our kids' abilities and comprehension. My oldest enjoyed the original (Howard Pyle) Robin Hood at the age of 5 (before finding AO when he was 7) and they schedule it in Year 2 (age 7/8/9). Just because they will get more out of it later, doesn't mean they don't get lots out of it the first time. (In fact, they schedule Pilgrim's Progress twice - once in Yr 2/3 and again, as more of a devotional rather than literature, around Year 10.) Their familiarity with difficult texts opens a world of books to them that I never encountered (till I started homeschooling them!). I think my kids will find many of the HOD books easy this first year, but they will also find the writing (level and amount) to be a challenge - without the direction of a teacher's guide they have probably had less expected of them in some areas and more in others, likely following my own strengths and weaknesses.

Honestly, I loved AO when we started and I will miss it, but I'm also really looking forward to HOD. Some aspects of AO I am sad to leave (richness of the classic texts, the very active forum, hymns and folk songs, ease of substituting books as desired) while I'm really looking forward to other aspects of HOD (even more Christ-centered, open-and-go/no scheduling, detailed teacher's guide, order all the books in one place, step-by-step manageable art lessons).

Really, there are pros and cons to both curricula and I'm finding myself emotional about the switch, but knowing it's what we need to do time-wise as the time required for scheduling AO was taking over.

I don't think there's really any way to use both curricula together without over-burdening both you and your kids. However, I will still be using the wonderful books (that I've already purchased!) from the Free Read lists as read-alouds and my third (my voracious, self-taught reader) will likely read some of the core curriculum books as well. When it comes to that, there are many places to compile a reading list for free/family reads: AO, Sonlight, Simply Charlotte Mason, etc. But I really caution against trying to combine any two curricula. I really don't think there's a "best of all worlds" out there (only burn-out as we try to achieve it). *The best* is what works best for your family at any given time. In the past it's been AO and now it's HOD for us, but for the next family it will likely be something completely different.

I don't know if that helps you at all. Thanks for the chance to air all my joys and sorrows about my switch! In another year (after actually trying HOD and the "honeymoon period" is over) I'll have a more well-rounded perspective of the pros and cons of each, but for now I'm really excited to enjoy summer with my family (my first real one in 5 years!)!
Blessings,

[Carrie]

This is a subject that is near and dear to my heart, as I used Ambleside Online for 4 years with my oldest son, before I wrote the HOD guides for his level. He used the AO years right on grade level (using each level exactly as written), using Ambleside 3 in grade 3, AO 4 in grade 4, AO in 5 in grade 5, and AO 6 in grade 6. He did use DITHR along the way with AO. After that he began piloting guides for HOD, beginning with CTC.

Since we did AO as written and did it for multiple years, I feel pretty clear when I share my thoughts about our AO experience. First of all, I am grateful to that program for introducing me to Charlotte Mason and for helping me learn about the CM way of schooling. I was thrilled with CM's focus on character training and the importance of God's Word, and I remain enthralled with that today. Her methods of studied dictation were a complete breakthrough, and I believe there is nothing better. CM's slower, more thoughtful reading process and the deeper thinking about what was read is pure genius. Fewer books done better is still my motto. We enjoyed our years in AO to some extent, and I definitely felt good about some of the old, classic books I was introduced to along the way.

My oldest son was one of those early readers who could read the AO books without trouble. He definitely rose to the challenge and completed his assignments without difficulty. He was a natural narrator and was not a fan of writing. He completed his school in a timely fashion and did what he was asked without complaint. However, the further we went down the Ambleside path, the more I found that there were some definite problems running under the surface of his education.

The first bump that appeared was his outright dislike of orally narrating every text. He began to really frown over narrating, even though he could do it easily. The next bump appeared after we ramped up the number of written narrations he was doing daily. While he did them well, it began taking him longer and longer to complete them; and he began to really dread written narrations. The next bump that appeared was his lack of enthusiasm for the book selections. This really surprised me. The antiquated language and the old-fashioned story lines began to color his opinion of the books he was reading (and this was a child who loved to read anything). He didn't complain about the books, but he was no longer excited about his school day or about what he would read. I also felt like there was no guidance on Scripture instruction or character training as part of AO, and so I felt alone in coming up with my own plan for this.

From my perspective as a teacher there were also increasing bumps. First, I felt that my son's days were pretty repetitive, with him reading and narrating... reading and narrating.... and reading and narrating. We did do poetry, composer study, hymn study, nature walks, and handicrafts (doing one of these each day); but it still seemed like his day involved a lot of reading and narrating. My oldest is such a hands-on child that he missed more activity. As a teacher, I missed the connections that can be made through a more unit study approach through projects, timeline, research, geography, primary source documents, guided drawing practice, notebooking etc. I also increasingly felt like the delayed approach to formal grammar and writing instruction was leaving me wondering how to talk to my son about grammar and writing skills that I felt he was needing earlier than CM advocated. Many other skills that I wanted my son to be gaining along the way also seemed to be left to me to figure out how to add into our day, as they weren't a formal part of AO. Skills like dictation and copywork were also left for me to implement, gleaning from CM's guidance.

While in the beginning, I loved the idea of a more streamlined day with the focus on reading and narrating, as I watched my son's enthusiasm for school and learning wane through the years, I began to see that the things I felt he was missing... he was missing too. I began asking myself, just because my son could read Robinson Crusoe as a 9 year old, should he? Or, would he benefit more from it later, when he had more maturity? When Pilgrim's Progress scared him, as he read it at such a young age, because he was worried he couldn't face the trials that Christian faced; might it have been better to save this book for a time when he was more mature and could really appreciate the complexities of the allegory and be encouraged by Christian's journey? The further we went, the more I began to see that maturity has as much, or more, to do with enjoying the richness of classic books as reading level does. Some books are richer when read later.

There is never the same newness or awe of reading a classic book as the first time you read it, so why not wait until the newness and the richness can come together and be appreciated by a mature reader? Why not read the easier wonderful classics and new classics too when your child is younger, saving the harder classics for when your child is older? As I pondered these questions, I realized I wanted a booklist with a different balance of books... one that took into account the fact that our young children are not living in the same era as Charlotte Mason lived and that they are not exposed to many of the hardships faced on a daily basis during that time... one that knows that a balance of old books and new books is important and that a balance of skills is too! So, I began the quest of taking as much of CM's philosophy as I agreed with and adding in the skills I knew from my own 20 years of teaching experience would be necessary for kiddos in this day and age of education. What appeared then was our guides from CTC on up.

When my son made the switch from AO to doing CTC, I can honestly say that it was challenging. He was being asked to do things in CTC that he had not done before, and his day was definitely longer. Yet, by the end of the year I had seen so much growth in my son spiritually and Godly character-wise that I was a firm believer that the switch had been a good one. What's more, my son was enjoying his learning again, even with a longer day. His day was much more varied and overall I felt his learning was richer. I knew exactly what to expect from him each day, and he knew exactly what was expected of him. He no longer dreaded narrations, as they were only once daily and rotated among the subjects. The balance of books piqued his interest, and I often found him digging deeper into topics that interested him. He began voluntarily sharing about things that he'd learned and our dialogues were filled with enthusiasm. Likewise, my interactions with him were much more varied, and I was more enthusiastic as well. My son opened up about his faith, and we had opportunities all throughout the year right within the guide to talk about his walk (and mine) with the Lord. It was the education I'd wanted him to have, but could never figure out how to give him. My other kiddos have only ever done HOD; and I must say that within their education I continue to find this same richness, love for reading, solid balance of skills, teacher guidance and help, focus on God's Word, opportunities for character training, and academic excellence too.

Every year, as we begin pondering the next HOD guide, I pull back out CM's original volumes and reread all that pertains to the stage of learning we are entering. I take as much as I agree with from her philosophy and then add things from my own research and 25 years of experience as a teacher and educator as well. So, within HOD you will see a CM education with some differences. You will see her wonderful focus on reading living books and narrating from them, doing copywork and dictation, composer study, artist appreciation, hymn study, nature journal, steady diet of poetry, sketching practice, timeline work, etc.; but you will also see the richness of research, hands-on projects, notebooking, formal writing instruction, formal English instruction, geography lessons, lessons on primary source documents, mapping, etc. I know that CM also included many of these things I just listed, however I was in desperate need of presenting these things from a teaching standpoint in an organized fashion. I needed it to be laid out for me as a teacher to guide, direct, and facilitate my kiddos' learning. I wanted lessons that lent themselves to helping my kiddos make connections as they were learning. More than that I wanted God at the center of my boys' learning and His Word integrated throughout our day. I wanted character training to be a part of each guide and training in becoming a Godly young man or woman to be a part of every year. This is how we designed HOD.

While each family must make their own choices as to what they are looking for in their children's eduction, I wanted to share a bit more about what I was looking for in my boys' education and why we wrote the guides the way we did. AO was a part of my oldest son's journey that I learned much from. I can honestly say it helped me fine-tune my philosophy of education and know in my heart what I believe about how kiddos' learn. It helped me take my 11 years teaching in the public school classroom, combined with 2 years of doing my master's in education to be a principal, and then another 12 years as a homeschool teacher and put them together to reach the philosophy I hold today. Implementing this philosophy, as we write our guides with a balanced approach to skills and learning, continues to be a journey for me that I enjoy. I pray you will find what you are seeking too.

Blessings,
Carrie

[Motherjoy]

Carrie,

That was a beautiful explanation. Thank you for taking the time to write it out. I've been delving deeper into CM methods and writings lately. I've found myself a little overwhelmed and questioning HOD for our family for the first time in six years. However, every time I imagined the time it would take me to research books, find books, and write up plans, I am so thankful for what you have already done for all of us. As you wrote a long time ago in a science thread, we want to finish the call that God has given us in homeschooling. To do that, with 8 children, I need a curriculum that is written for me. Heart of Dakota is that for us. We are so excited about continuing to use it, and this year will be the first year that we are going through a guide for the second time. I can't wait to see what new things I learn as I do Preparing with my middle boys just like I did for my oldest. What fun!

Thanks again for writing this curriculum. Its such a blessing to our family.

[Carrie]

Motherjoy,

Thanks so much for your post! I am glad that it spoke to your heart and the research journey you have undertaken lately. I am also so glad for the opportunity to share about how we arrived at the philosophy we use when writing our guides! It is a blessing to dialogue with such a wonderful group of ladies. I feel blessed to be a part of this board.

Blessings,
Carrie

[HeatherJane]

Carrie,

Thank you so very much for taking the time to explain your choices! You are such a blessing and I truly appreciate your amazing curriculum and they way you give so much of yourself in answering questions and guiding us all as we try our best to educate our children.

Thanks again for the encouragement! Now I am ready to get organized for my first year teaching from three guides.

Kind Regards,
Heather Jane

[Carrie]

HeatherJane,

Thanks so much for your comments. You ladies are all such a blessing to me! I love sharing the HOD journey together with all of you!

Blessings,
Carrie

[lmercon]

I think we need to remember that we don't need to all be little "Charlotte Masons" by reinventing the "wheel" in our homeschools. Charlotte's teachers and parents used her curriculum. They didn't all go out and design their own curricula. We should never feel like we are somehow "selling out" because we use a boxed curriculum. In fact, it's very Charlotte Mason of us! Carrie has done so much of the leg work and has masterfully woven the materials into a balanced curriculum. Why not make use of her marvelous talent and enjoy the time that is freed up to do other things with our children? Now, I've been an educator in the ps system as well as at home for a long time, and I completely understand the love of research and pulling things together. I meet that need by adding a few extras here and there, but I love that I don't need to do so.
Laura

[whisperingoak]

Carrie,
Thank you for sharing your heart on this particular subject. We used Bigger last year with 2 kiddos and it was a thoroughly enjoyable year. During all of the homeschooling years I have been learning more about CM. I suddenly thought "HOD" isn't CM enough and decided to go with AO. I purchased several of the books needed for YR3. The more I delved into AO and CM the more I realized that I did not/do not agree completely with CM on all points. I found myself questioning certain aspects (particularly grammar). I questioned some of the books AO recommended (Pilgrim's Progress along with many of the science recs). I do not doubt that God directed me to HOD and a meeting with you 2 summers ago and yet I was turning my back on it. In the end I listened to that "still small voice" and we are joyfully and peacefully beginning to settle into our Preparing guide.