Placement Help Please

[WellsSchool]

I have two sons, ages 11(birthday in June) and 13 (birthday in November). We kind of consider our youngest a 5th grader and our oldest a 7th grader. As I look ahead to the future high school years (YIKES!), I'd like some guidance.

I'm not sure if I placed them correctly this year (CTC with the extension for the older boy), but because it was our trial year, I wanted to do everything together. I knew there was going to be quite a learning curve for us as prior to this year all of our subjects were heavily teacher-directed.

Regarding Grammar / English:
Building with Diligence (youngest)
Following the Plan (eldest)
These texts have not been difficult for the boys and much has been a review, but a good review at that. All other recommended books have been wonderful. I do notice that my boys consistently do not remember to carry over correct punctuation, capitalization, etc. Their writing is sloppy, especially on the notebook pages where there are no lines to write upon. (I should mention that my eldest has a movement disorder so this would definitely play into account here, but he still could do better.) I feel like a nag when I correct their work, and this is a tender point for all involved. I've apologized many a time for losing my patience.

Regarding DITHR and other reading material:
My youngest child is the Level 4-5 workbook with the Level 3 book pack. He has difficulty reading quickly, but his comprehension is *okay* (not great, not horrid). I've had to help him with his reading material (I read a paragraph or a page and then he reads a paragraph or a page) whether it be for DITHR or science or history. Lately he has seemed to improve and can read more independently. (The Bird's of the Air book is easier for him than the Apologia text we had been using earlier in the year.) Maybe he's improving! I KNOW that he's really impressed me with his progress with spelling this past year or two.

My eldest has absolutely no troubles reading the Level 7/8 books. His speed, comprehension, and memory are excellent.

Written / Oral Narrations, Copy Work, Dictations:
My youngest needs to be coached heavily for oral narrations. Regarding the written narrations, he needs help every step of the way...finding the answer in the book, writing the answer (with correct punctuation, etc.), etc. This has been frustrating for both mom and student alike.

My eldest has no difficulty in talking for oral narrations! He could use refinement in the area of not starting each sentence with the same word, etc. His written narrations are beautifully written concerning content and language use but lack in the area of consistently correct grammar and neatness.

Both boys at first didn't seem to notice their errors when correcting their copy work or dictations, but this seems to be improving.

Math:
We've used RightStart Math from the beginning. The subject of math is difficult for my youngest. I would consider exploring Singapore Math next year as we will have finished RightStart Level E with him. (I will not be using RightStart's geometry for him which is the recommended next step along with VideoText Algebra.)

My eldest started VideoText Algebra in 6th grade. We are still working through that, taking it slowly. We did for a time do RightStart Geometry along with that but have since decided to put that aside for now (or potentially permanently). Since he started this in younger years, do I grade it for high school credit? I'd hate to do that since his grades (and we haven't really been grading, just checking for understanding) certainly don't measure up to what they should be for an older high school age student. I'm open to starting something different with him. We used VideoText because that was what was recommended by RightStart and we were given Modules A, B, and C for free. We are currently working in Module C and would have to purchase every module that follows. I should mention that it is not unusual for him to get 50% of his problems wrong in math (and then we do the extra problems / quizzes provided). This is not due to him not understanding the concept, but because he makes silly errors. I'm not sure that he is retaining this information though, but only "parroting" back the concepts in a rote manner based upon the most current lesson.

In math, and everything else concerning the eldest, things come very easily. YET, he does not show enough maturity to remember to follow through. Even though he reads quickly and grasps content, he is consistently the last one done for the day. He daydreams, complains and whines, turns in sub-par work (ironically due to rushing through his work), and is easily distracted. Remember the nagging comment above? This boy is my mover, and if he'd gone to an institutional school, I'm sure would have been labeled ADHD.

It scares me to think that we might have to run separate guides in the future, but from reading the board, it seems that several others here have done this successfully. I, however, am not Wonder Woman as so many, many homeschooling moms prove to be. I struggle with depression and die to myself daily to teach my boys, and imperfectly at that. Additionally, I fancy the idea of my eldest working though all of the high school guides which would mean that for his eighth grade year next year, he should jump to MTMM. I understand this thinking isn't the best either if the level isn't the best fit for the child, however.

Well, if you're still reading, congratulations! Thank you for any suggestions in helping me guide my children through a successful school career.

[StephanieU]

Have you looked at the placement chart with fresh eyes for your eldest? Where would he place now? If he would place into MtMM solidly by the end of the year, then it probably would be good to separate. One thing to remember is that as they get into farther guides, the time you spend with this is less. I was recently looking at one of Julie's schedules for MtMM I think, and she was only with her oldest for about an hour to an hour and a half a day. That probably is about how much you are spending focused on him already anyways, so it might not be any harder that combining.

[Nealewill]

I just wanted to chime in about math. I also have used RightStart level E. I am about to finish it with my oldest. After talking with RS over the phone recently and being unsure about using Singapore level 6 next year or doing RightStart Level G, they recommended not really moving forward much in VideoText until 7th grade. The rep I spoke with said she did Level G with her child over 5th and 6th grade. But then she also did VT Mod A over 6th grade with it. She didn't really know if she thought her son got it in 6th grade so they just repeated it again in 7th grade. She said she was glad she did that because she then knew her son understood. I wonder with your son if redoing Mod A and up would be a good thing. And in Ohio - I know that I can count Algebra 1 and up for high school credit. So once I finish the VideoText series, I am finished.

I would also like to say that you should not feel pressured to finish every guide necessarily. I think that checking the placement chart is huge. If you check the placement chart and you truly believe your oldest can do it - thank I personally say go for it. Everyone has to start some where to figure out where their child should place. I also would like to say that not every one is perfect at everything. So your oldest will probably needs some help. From what other moms have said - HOD does build on other skills each level. But again, if you felt like your oldest found CTC way to easy and really does meet each qualification, he may be fine in MTMM. The day will definitely be longer. And there is longer and more reading. It is more independent.

But I also know many moms have modified Rev2Rev and MTMM to make them high school worthy. So you could easily do that as well and not have to worry about doing every level. If you find you do like having your kids do the same level, I personally think that is great. I wouldn't worry about what other people do. You go have got to be the woman God created you to be. If that means you are a one guide woman, then by all means you should be the best 1 guide woman you can be!

[my3sons]

Thank you for sharing about each of your dc! It is humbling homeschooling our dc, and none of us do it perfectly. It is only with the Lord's help that we can step out in faith and try our best each day, knowing we are under His protection as we are trying our best to help our dc to know Him. You obviously love your dc very much, and I think we can figure this out together. As I read your post, it seems that your sons are growing apart in skills and maturity. Your younger ds reading at a 4/5 level quite slowly with the Level 3 book pack and needing to work on reading comprehension, early narration skills, etc. must make him doing CTC somewhat difficult. It will not get easier in RTR next year. On the other hand, your older ds in 7th grade easily reading 7/8 DITHOR books and narrating quite well, both orally and in writing is probably ready for something harder.

If it were me, I'd separate the 2 boys. I'd put your youngest in PHFHG. That is a super guide for strengthening oral narration skills and introducing good written narration skills. It also will fit his reading level better, and he will be able to read the Independent Deluxe Reader's Set for his history, as well as read and do Independent Science successfully AND independently (which makes teaching 2 guides easier than teaching 1 guide because dc are taking on needed independence as they age, lessening your teaching time) . I think this would be a huge relief and a breath of fresh air! He would be able to successfully complete the "I" independent boxes in PHFHG, as well as have you help start him on the "S" semi-independent boxes and finish them out on his own. Your teacher time would be very manageable. Especially because I'm going to recommend you take a look at putting his big brother into Revival to Revolution. He could do this for 8th grade, and do MTMM for his 9th grade year. I wouldn't suggest skipping more than 1 guide, especially as older ds is taking a long time to do CTC with extensions. Doing RevtoRev without extensions would give 8th grade ds the chance to soar. He would clearly see he is growing up, doing harder work than little brother, and expected to do more "I" independent work. I'd give him his RevtoRev guide as a student planner, and let him read his directions right out of there, checking the corners of completed boxes as he finishes. I'd let him draw lines to write on in his notebooking boxes or write on lined notebook paper and fold it and glue it in the boxes, due to the special concerns you've noted. Or, I'd let him type his written narrations, cut them to size, and glue them in the boxes (unless he's not used to typing). What are your thoughts though?

In Christ,
Julie

[WellsSchool]

Thank you, ladies, for responding regarding next year's placement. I appreciate your taking time out of your busy schedules to help me. Julie, prior to your post and after re-reading the placement chart in the catalog, I was leaning toward separating the boys and putting my youngest son in Resurrection to Reformation next year and my oldest son in Missions to Modern Marvels. Now I'm not so sure.

I understand that skipping two levels is not recommended, yet the reason I placed my eldest with us at CtC last year was because it was our inaugural year with HOD and we would be moving away from all family and friends. I wanted to do the same guide together. The eldest probably should have been placed higher, and the younger boy likely should have been placed in Preparing. I wanted HOD to help with any deficiencies in the eldest's earlier education regarding formation of good study habits, etc., and I realized that there would be quite a learning curve for all of us. HOD has performed brilliantly for both boys (and me!) in teaching independence, good habits, and reaffirming basic academic skills. (I'm quickly becoming a HOD "groupie"!) I've been impressed with their growth and am expecting even more leaps and bounds by the end of this year with CtC. Having said that, while academics comes very easily for my eldest, it seems the youngest surpasses him in the "maturity" department. The eldest doesn't finish last for the day because of academic difficulty, but because he consistently wastes his time.

Especially since the eldest will be working more independently, I feel as if even if I were challenging the youngest with Resurrection to Reformation, I'd have an ample amount of time to work one-on-one with him, tailoring the curriculum dedicated to his academic needs. [I also know that while we'd be using the majority of books for science, we will not be using the recommended Apologia text (Astronomy) as we've read through that with our family earlier. Thus, this would free up some time for us.]

I'm still not sure what I'm going to do about math for either child either. I'm thinking that I'll definitely have the younger boy take a placement test with Singapore.

Even though I know my kids (sort of!), I recognize those who have gone before me in HOD are the true experts so I will rely heavily upon your advice.

[Nealewill]

I just wanted to let you know that I will pray for you about math for next year. I am praying about math for me next year LOL . My oldest finish is finishing RightStart level E and some days she makes goofy mistakes or acts clueless but usually she is pretty with it. I don't know my thoughts on Level G. I am also reviewing Singapore for next year for my dd - probably level 6A if I do Singapore because after reviewing the placement chart and sample tests, I think that is the level she would place at. But I am just not sure either Both methods do teach differently. I am finding that she does well with RightStart for now but not sure what I think about the level G for her. So I will pray for you!

[Nealewill]

I just wanted to tell you that my husband has okayed me getting Singapore So I am going to seek switching the kids. Not sure that I have peace about it yet because I know how RightStart teaches and what it teaches. But we also had my oldest dd do some of the placement tests on their website and she missed a few on most levels. She got at least an 80% all of the levels up through 5B but my husband likes the harder word problems. That was one thing with RightStart that I didn't like as much. I felt like I was constantly holding her hand while she did her work. With Singapore they provide a little bit more practice and a little less hand holding so it might be a better fit. So now I am just praying about whether or not it my teaching style and my kids learning style.

[WellsSchool]

I'm going to have my son take the placement test on Singapore Math's website. In looking around this discussion board I can't seem to find which series is recommended. I'm assuming the U.S. Editions Series?

[Nealewill]

Yes, they use the US Series.