Placement Help - Dyslexia

[Kristen]

I need some help thinking this through for my ds12 (just turned 12 in Dec.) who is dyslexic. The last two school years we have been concentrating mostly on his reading, spelling and math skills with a tutor. This year we are doing things on our own again. He has made great progress but reading is not quite up to grade level. As many of you have probably experienced with your own dyslexic children his comprehension is higher than his reading ability. So, for many years things have been a struggle for him. And in my own confusion on how best to help him, I've probably made things too easy or let him get out of doing things. Either because of his struggle with dyslexia and/or some ADHD (never been diagnosed) or just his temperament, he is very active, very talkative, can not concentrate for long periods of time, fidgety, likes hands-on, etc. He does love being read to and does best when he has me all to himself. Unfortunately this does not happen very often because he has 3 siblings! He also listens best when his hands are busy and can narrate almost every detail of a reading afterward. I believe he will thrive with structure and a schedule - my weakness. This year he has been doing Bob Jones online reading class (grade 4), which has been great for him because he loves watching the class and then he does the reading and activities on his own. He reads outloud to me. He has also been doing Math-U-See which has been good for his learning style also. We did HOD many years ago (age 9) and left off at Bigger the summer before he was dx as dyslexic. I think he and his brother also did a little in Preparing sometime after that but then we dropped it.

So, my question, I know he needs to do more for school and I believe he wants to feel productive (even though he doesn't always act like it.) I'm thinking of starting him in Preparing again and taking it slow. I know he's a bit old, but with his dyslexia I think the independent reading and writing that is in there would be plenty for him. I know many believe (and I tend to agree) that he needs to work at his intellectual level, but I don't know how that is going to happen. I spend a lot of time with him now and would even with Preparing but I think anything higher than that would take a lot of hand-holding and would result in frustration. I'm also doing LHFHG with my ds6 and have a dd3.5 who needs a lot of attention (thinking of starting LHTH with her, but that's another post! ) My oldest ds13 is doing a combo of math and English at a Christian school and other parts of Rev to Rev (long story). And sometimes I even have to read things to him (I think he is mildly dyslexic as well - never dx). I was having ds12 listen in on history with ds13 in Rev to Rev but they don't work well together (very distracting for both of them) and I think it's a little too much for ds12 to keep up with.

Anyway, I'm sorry this got so long, but things have been very hard here and I'm trying to help him regain his love of learning and maybe make our days not so hectic! Lol. Thanks!
Kristen

[Nealewill]

I actually was just think that Preparing would be a great fit for him for this year. That is probably where I would place him. I know my DD is loving this year and even though she is a little bit younger, she also mildly dyslexic and she has been very engaged in the reading and will read extra if I let her.

[lmercon]

Hi,
I also have a 12 yo ds who is severely dyslexic. We've been using HOD since the beginning. We are in RTR this year. For CTC and now for RTR, we take 1 1/2 years to get the program done. I made a schedule that allows us to get 2 weeks of school done every 3 weeks, working 5 days every week with 1 day off every 3 weeks. That has worked very well for us. I still have to spend A LOT more time with him than what is normally expected, but that is just the way it is. If the curriculum is too far below the child's intellectual level, I think there is a tendency for more dawdling and fidgeting. They do need to be challenged intellectually without being worn out in the areas where their skills are lacking. I've slowly given more over to my ds to do independently. Up until this year, he dictated his narrations to me, and I wrote them down. He would copy them onto a notebook page. This year, he does his science narrations on his own. We don't worry about spelling or edit them at all. Because the history narrations go on the beautiful notebooking pages, he writes his narration after I help him make a list of key names, places, dates, and facts. Then I edit the narration and rewrite it on scrap paper. I do that so that he isn't overwhelmed by the number of spelling mistakes. Then he copies the narration onto his notebook page. This does take longer, but in the end he has a neat and well-written narration that he constructed. I read EVERYTHING to him. It is more time consuming as we go up in levels, but he is not able to read-to-learn yet.

I think it is an individual decision as to how to decide whether you place the child in the level where they are intellectually or where they are skills-wise. My ds's dyslexia is so severe, that I would have lost him a long time ago if I would have placed him depending on his skills. He enjoys school and is learning a ton! I just know that, with him, a lot of extra time will have to be spent.

hth,
Laura

[Kristen]

Laura,
Thanks for sharing. I can so relate. I'm just not sure what to do. I know he is very smart and would learn a lot/does learn a lot when I read everything to him. Even the consultant and tutor who worked with him said he needs other subjects on his age level, not reading level. I just don't know if I can read everything to at least 2, maybe 3, kids and get it all done. I know part of his goofing off and being distracting is because he is not challenged. But it is so easy to overwhelm him too, kwim? I have to find the balance there.

I have been searching and trying so many programs these last 2.5 years for history and science and nothing has fit well. And I know he is feeling frustrated because he wants to learn things and be productive. I feel we all need more structure but then I become overwhelmed easily. I was thinking of trying to teach them all together somehow but I think they get too distracted. That's why I tried him with his big brother in Rev to Rev. Maybe I'll stick with that and see how it goes. He says the history readings are kind of long (I think for his attention-span). He goofed around for most of it, but then he narrated almost the whole thing with most of the details. They are both enjoying the content.

I have so many great memories of HOD when we did it years ago with just the two olders. And it was the one program - even though we didn't do it exactly right - that they learned so much from. In fact, we just watched the movie, Monumental with Kirk Cameron, which is all about our country's beginning and we remembered all the great things we learned with HOD from those years. That inspired me to try to make HOD work for us. I have always tried to come back and I was determined to at least use it for my two youngest.

I have had some health challenges (thyroid) over the last year or so and while I'm feeling better I have my ups and downs. I try to simplify things but then things don't get done and I'm constantly trying to get organized, make a schedule, etc. Ugh. Sorry, I got off track. Like I said, it's just been hard.

Kristen

[psreit]

Kristen - Your situation sounds exactly like mine! I have a 10yo dd (11 in May) with dyslexia, who sounds so much like your son, as far as educational needs. I also struggle with being structured, but I recently started a system here to try to make our day more structured. I only have one to homeschool, so I can give all my attention to her. I have been so discouraged at times because I think she will never become independent.

After reading what Laura said, I feel I need to look at some things in a different light. We had done HOD for 2.5 years and stopped last year in the middle of Bigger, because school was just going awful. Not because of Bigger, but because of problems with math and reading. We had so many days of frustration and tears. It was third grade, and that is when they say things really start showing up. I was led to a consultant who specializes in dyslexia and math. She put my dd in special programs, which helped for a while. But, we ended up quitting them in November to go back to our 'normal' stuff. We made it over the hump, so I feel I can now do 'normal' curriculum with her and adapt it to fit her needs. I have kept coming back to HOD through all those months, so I have plans to begin Preparing with her in the fall. After what Laura said about putting the child in work on the intellectual level, rather than reading level has got me thinking that maybe I shouldn't wait to begin.

I will be reading to her for a long time yet, as her dyslexia is unofficially diagnosed as moderate. She has very good reading comprehension, but cannot read-to-learn as Laura put it. I still have her doing some phonics. Her spelling is VERY poor. She is very easily distracted, poor attention, and always wants to be doing something with her hands. She loves to be read to and has good comprehension, but although she talks a lot, she has trouble expressing herself verbally. With narration, she can tell some things back to me, but struggles with putting them in order. I have tried many different things with her over the years. HOD was a Godsend when I first found it, and I am thankful we can come back to it now. I know there will be struggles, but what has helped so much is knowing there are others dealing with this who have been a help and encouragement to me right here on this board.

If you do use HOD again, just take it slow. I'm sure there are those hsing several children who could help you put your schedule together. If you feel Preparing would be a good fit for your ds, then go with that. I know the reading is time-consuming, but you can do it. I'm sure I didn't help much with making a plan, but I wanted to let you know that you are not alone.

[Kristen]

Thanks so much for the encouragement! It helps so much to talk to moms going through the same thing. After hearing that this can be done, I'm thinking his level might actually be more close to CTC. I remembered that I actually tried CTC too once (or twice ) with my oldest and with both older boys. But, of course, I didn't stick with it past the first week. Going forward I have to remember the goal and that it's not a race. I always feel I have to do it all and do it yesterday! Lol. I like what Laura said about spreading the guide over 1.5 years. It doesn't matter how fast they go, just that they are progressing. I can "say" they are in whatever grade but they don't have to switch guides at that point. Big revelation. I have to give myself grace and remember that God shows his strength best in my weakness. When I struggle so much on my own, things don't work very well.
The first thing I need to work on is wake-up time and schedule, just everyone getting dressed, etc. At least my oldest is getting up early because he goes to the Christian school in the morning. So I'm going to make a chart for everyone else with things to do and when I want it done so we can start school at a certain time. Then I'll give stickers for each item and they can work toward something small like game time, dollar store treat, etc. Once we can establish a consistent start time we can schedule the rest.
I'm going to look at CTC again. I don't have any of the guides anymore, but I have all the samples and notes. We haven't really done any world history and ds12 really likes biographies (especially famous Americans) so I'm not sure how he would take to world. But I know part of it is because he hasn't really done any. I know I'll be back here a lot for encouragement and to bounce ideas around. I'm looking forward to encouraging all of you as well!
Thanks so much ladies! I'll let you know how it's going.
Kristen

[Tidbits of Learning]

We are coming back to HOD after almost 2 years away. My ds11 has dyslexia plus dysgraphia too. I really looked at the placement chart a lot. We spent the last 2 years in a charter with him at grade level with adaptions (504). I was doing a lot of the writing (writing is his weak area...we have turned a corner with reading). Anyway, after 2 years like that I felt we were always going to be adapting for him. I felt like he was learning but I was dragging him along skill wise. I could never envision a time when he would be independent and I knew 6th grade was going to break me. It is intensive and he should have been mainly independent at that point. So when we came back to HOD, I made myself be truly honest about the placement chart without adaptions from his 504. He actually had the same amount of checks on the placement chart for Preparing and CTC but with CTC the missing skills were writing so we are starting with Preparing and I am really trying to train him to excel and gain the skills that are hard for him. I looked at the placement chart like he had never done HOD before and without factoring in the dyslexia/dysgraphia. I looked at it on abilities alone.
The older he gets the harder it is to go back and gain those skills if we keep adapting. He has had to start out 1/2 speed so that he can really work independently on things. Anyway, I think it depends on your goals and all but the closer you get to high school having many kids the harder it can get to continually adapt and have an older student not progressing in independence. To me the content in Preparing on up is very rich and intellectually stimulating for a variety of ages. I think academics are really important and being intellectually stimulated is as well but it is hard to get to the point where you are only focusing on one student if you have many. I have already decided that we will master the skills in a guide before moving on no matter what with ds11. I have spent 2 years making sure he was on grade level and with his peers and I don't feel it benefited him in the long run or myself as the teacher as my 2 older girls had to be completely independent and I wound up leaving my youngest by the wayside.
If it was just him at home, I might feel differently; but, I need to give my all to all of the kids and help him get to the point where he is progressing towards self-sufficiency. In life, he is not going to have a helper at the office or in whatever field he pursues b/c he has a 504 and needs adaptions. I was grateful for the adaptions and 504 a few years ago, but now I do feel we have become dependent on them and they have become a crutch. I am not saying don't help your child and don't accommodate when needed, but don't let it become a crutch and not work on your child gaining those skills, independence, and self-sufficiency. I felt if we placed higher than he was realistically capable of doing mainly as written that we would be continuing the cycle of adapting and moving forward but not gaining skills and independence.

[lmercon]

I agree so much with what Tidbits had to say, which is why I've been slowly turning things over to my ds to do independently. He is doing really well. I would have been shocked two years ago if I could have looked into a crystal ball and seen what he is now doing. I think, in order for him to gain confidence, I might also start your ds in Preparing. It was one of my favorite years! It's really fabulous. It also has a "quicker" feel to it because it is a one-year broad sweep of world history. It really moves along. The older programs go much deeper into the time periods. Your ds may not be ready to get that deep and may feel "bogged" down. It is such a balancing act - to keep them engaged and excited about learning and also gaining independence in the skills areas. With my ds, if I held him back until his reading ability was solid enough that he could LEARN independently from the readings, he would be terribly behind as far as preparing for high school level courses. I think that you should find a program that is close to his intellectual level and look for ways to scaffold his learning. By that I mean, look for ways that you can begin to withdraw your support a little at a time in certain areas over a great amount of time. So, over time, you are doing less and less for him.
hth,
Laura

[Kristen]

It is such a balancing act - to keep them engaged and excited about learning and also gaining independence in the skills areas.

I feel exactly this way. If it's too easy and "babyish" they lose excitement and self-esteem. If it's too hard they become frustrated and shut down.

I'm really going to have to study the samples and pray for wisdom. God is good and has been leading me through this journey. It was like this when I decided to use BJU's 4th grade reading this year when ds12 is technically in 6th grade. His face dropped when he found out it was 4th grade. But I explained to him that I wanted him to enjoy the stories, learn literary terms, genres, etc. and feel good about it. At first he didn't want to read out-loud to me, which you probably know is important for dyslexics and all readers to do. So I let him watch the teaching, read on his own and then do the workbook pages/activities. He was doing fine that way. All of a sudden now, he wants to read to me and we are enjoying that time together and I can see his reading has really improved. He is so proud of the work he is doing and loves showing Dad and other relatives all the neat things he is learning. It is so important for him to feel good about school. When we were seeing the tutor she really pushed him and he learned so much. But it was sooooo hard for him and he shut down sooooo much with me on the things we had to do at home. He was a kid who, when younger, always said he loved school. While seeing the tutor he said he "hated" school. He loved his tutor personally, but the work? Ugh! I "hated" it too. Lol. We were only working on skills and not learning anything new. I think both are important which is what is great about HOD. I think it incorporates both.

It also has a "quicker" feel to it because it is a one-year broad sweep of world history. It really moves along.

This was also my first impression. It would give him that overview he hasn't had yet, without so many details to bog him down. I did try this once with him when he was younger so I hope he doesn't think it too "babyish." Although I know HOD programs have a lot of meat in them. And the extensions go up to 6th grade, so technically it's not too young for him. I also tried CTC with my older son, when he was starting 7th grade, and I felt there was a LOT in there.

Thanks for helping me think this through. It's a real blessing!

[psreit]

Kristen - I agree that in the special programs (we did Barton for a while) there are too many skills and not enough variety in what they are learning. I could tell my dd was not enjoying school for that reason. Since we stopped Barton, and got her back in the ER books, she is doing much better. Learning all the spelling rules in Barton was becoming overwhelming for her. Bottom line - there are too many rules. And it is controlled. Charlotte Mason calls that kind of teaching 'twaddle'. (I read that in Karen Andreola's, A Charlotte Mason Companion) That confirmed to me that I made the right choice in stopping that program. There were some benefits in doing it for a while, but I couldn't see bogging my dd down with all those rules and not allowing her to 'read'. It was so controlled, she was not supposed to read anything else. She was so happy when I gave her one of the ER books and she could read a chapter to me with almost no help. It was exciting.

This thread has inspired me to move forward. I am going to order Preparing very soon! I want to start as soon as possible. We will work half speed for the remainder of this school year. Then we will have next school year to finish the guide if we need to continue to spread things out. I'm so excited! This wasn't my thread, but, thank you, ladies, for sharing your wisdom in teaching these very special children. They truly are a gift from God. HOD, here we come!! (Again)