New with Placement ? for 3 children

[pocjets]

We currently have 6 children but only 3 are school aged. When we start HOD, I'll have a 4th grader (9), 3rd grader (8), and a 1st grader (d6).

I know my 1st grader will do Beyond but I'm questioning what to do with my older 2 girls. My oldest could place into CTC or Preparing but since we've never done HOD before, should I place her in Preparing??
My middle daughter could place into Bigger or Preparing?

Should I combine the 2 oldest in Preparing? Should I let my oldest daughter do CTC and combine the 6 and 8 year old into Beyond?? Should I run 3 different guides??

I'm leaning towards combining them 2 oldest into Preparing and just letting my oldest read the extension books. Also, if I do this, could I combine both of them and do R&S 3?

We use MUS for math and I think it would be too hard to switch them to Singapore since the scope and sequences are so different. Any thoughts on that though? Should I try to switch them to Singapore?

Thanks so much!!! I cannot wait to get started!!!

[MelInKansas]

There are a lot of ways you can go but placement is so key to having it go well. Have you looked at the placement chart with each of your children in mind? The first page, writing, narration, etc is most important in where you can place your child(ren). In moving from another program, if they aren't strong in narration skills and if you think they won't be able to handle the independent work, you should place in the lower guide.

You can use Math-U-See, and if it is already working well for you, keep at it! If it is not working well, or you see things in Singapore that you want your children to learn, then think about switching.

I would not suggest putting your 8YO in R&S 3 if they have not done R&S 2. Unless they have had another foundational grammar program. R&S 2 covers parts of speech, sentences of different types, paragraphs, alphabetizing and using the dictionary.

[MomtoJGJE]

I second the suggestion of the placement chart. The other thing to think about, to make your days easier, is to put the 6yo in LHFHG.

I don't know that I'd put an 8yo/3rd grader into Preparing unless they've been through the previous HOD years. It is a lot of work. My third will likely be doing Preparing as an 8yo 3rd grader, but she's done LHTH, LHFHG, working on Beyond, and will do Bigger. That's a big difference to jumping into HOD at that level.

Really, if I were you I'd look at doing Preparing, Bigger, and LHFHG. I'd start Preparing first and get them used to doing the work and work 5 days a week, then I'd start Bigger half speed for a while, just to spread them out a bit. Then a week or two later I'd start LHFHG with the 6yo.

Again though, look at the placement chart for each one individually... don't look at what you want them to learn, but what they already know. That will give everyone a better idea on how to respond.

Oh, and I don't think a 4th grader in Preparing would need the extensions. Personally I think it's an awesome 4th grade program!

[pocjets]

Thanks for the thoughts! I really do appreciate it. I looked at the placement chart and my kids fall in:

6 year old (1st grader) - Beyond
8 year old (3rd grader)- Preparing
9 year old (4th grader)- CTC (except for grammar). She knows parts of speech, etc but we haven't done diagramming.

I'm slightly concerned about running 3 guides though my first time through so that's why I'm wondering if I shouldn't place the oldest 2 together? Another concern though is that my oldest does seem to be more independent and ahead of my 3rd grader and I don't want to "hold her back." That's one of the reasons I'm switching to HOD. I feel like combining for too many subjects doesn't work and I like how this curriculum seems to work in smaller increments for skill levels.

I guess I could bump them all back a level like the previous poster suggested. I'm just afraid then that my 1st grader will be board. Hmmm - lots to think about.

[MomtoJGJE]

My third DD is very quick and bright. She loves learning and school etc. She could easily place in Bigger, and possibly even Preparing at the moment (like I said... very bright and loves learning). She is just in the first part of Beyond, but she definitely was not bored in LHFHG! In fact, she was disappointed in a fashion when it was over because she loved it so much. The key to kids like that is to let them go at their own pace in math/fine motor skills, and to have lots of books for them to read. You might want to go ahead and get the Beyond manual if she's reading already and do the Emerging Readers with her, and you could also add in the spelling/grammar if you feel she's ready for that. But I do not think she'd be bored with the lessons in LHFHG. They are awesome!

As far as placing your oldest in CTC. Has she done narrations? That was one of the hardest things for my oldest to get used to was written narrations. Now she's quite good at them, but she's halfway through CTC. Preparing teaches that so well, as well as setting a baseline for History. Plus there is so much more than academics to Preparing. I honestly wouldn't want to miss it. My oldest did it in 4th grade and scored well above 4th grade level in her end of year testing.

The thing about combining vs multiple guides is correct placement. If you are having to constantly adjust for one child or another it would make it much harder. If a child is appropriately placed in HOD it is really easy to implement.

Oh, and being new to HOD, a lot of times it's better to start lower just to get used to the feel of the guides.

[pocjets]

Ok thanks so much for the help!! I'm going to take your advice and put my 4th grader in Preparing instead of CTC. She can orally narrate but we have not done written narrations. I think you are right about backing up a little because we haven't used the guides before. I'm also off to look at Bigger and LHTH for my younger 2. Really, thanks so much!

[mom23]

I know that for our family, if my children were one grade level apart I would really look hard at combining them. I think there are other (non-academic) factors to consider-like how well do these particular children work together? Do they compete in a healthy way, challenging eachother, or in a way that breeds tension and causes one child or another to feel like they don't measure up, or left behind? I tried combining my oldest 2 children when we began with HOD, but soon found it didn't work at all, partly because the personalities and needs of these 2 children are like oil/water. However, if combining would work academically I would love to do it with the 2nd and 3rd children because those two work well together. You also want to consider the needs of the family. If you have 3 other children, I'm wondering if they are younger? They are going to take up some of your time-understatement - and running Preparing and Bigger, or CTC and Preparing, along with a 3rd guide...that is really teacher-intensive! It will require a lot of your time. If you could cut that down to 2 guides, with 3 younger children in the home...well, I know that would certainly be all that I'd want to handle.

Generally, if you're combining with HOD you'd want to place the younger child as closely to their needs as you can, and then beef that guide up as needed for the older child. If, when you look at the placement chart again, you decide that Bigger might be the best fit for your 3rd grader, don't hesitate to put your older 2 in that guide, even. I'm finding that my 4th grader doesn't need any extras added to Bigger this year, but if he did it would not be hard to do with the extensions, and adding narrations if you desired. Then his own levels of math, reading, spelling, grammar. It works! I, agree with others that have said Preparing is a lot for a typical 3rd grader. Definitely there are those that have done it, but I like it for older children (4th or 5th grade).

[pocjets]

Thanks for all of your help. It's hard because I do want to challenge my children but I certainly don't want to take on too much. I tend to burn out when I do that!! I'm looking over the catalog and website and hope to decide something soon.

[my3sons]

Welcome to the HOD Board! The ladies have given such good thoughts here already. The placement chart is a huge help in properly placing dc. I would love to hear about each of your dc's reading, writing, math, and grammar individually. That would help so much, as then we could better advise who should be paired. With your dc being this close in age, I definitely think 2 programs would be fine - which 2 programs is another story!

With the general info that has been shared already, I'd say Beyond for the 6 yo, PHFHG for the 9 yo, and I'd pair the 8 yo with whichever guide she can do very successfully. I'd not choose PHFHG for the 8 yo unless she is a strong reader and writer for her age, as well as a good direction follower and a budding independent worker. The reading, writing, multi-step direction following, and independent levels of work go up and up from PHFHG, so starting the 8 yo in PHFHG with her not being able to do it all will more than likely result in her having to back up a guide when she gets to CTC the next year. I guess I'm saying be very sure about your placement of your 8 yo in PHFHG if you choose that route.

Here is a link that compares the writing in Bigger Hearts and PHFHG, just so you can see what 8 yo would be doing in PHFHG...

Amount of writing in Bigger vs. PHFHG:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3602

If you do pair your 8 yo with your 6 yo in Beyond, you can have her do R & S English 2 (about a lesson a day), Drawn into the Heart of Reading 2/3, Spelling List 2 from Beyond' or the first level of dictation for spelling from PHFHG (as you'd own it anyway), and for math - either do Singapore (whichever level she tests in according to the free placement test at www.singaporemath.com), or continue with MUS. Personally, unless you love MUS, I'd make the switch to Singapore as she is young, and it should be an easy switch that saves you time in the long run.

Those are just a few thoughts - but I'll wait to hear back from you about placement details, and then I'd be more sure (as the other ladies will too, I am sure)! No matter what - I think you'll thoroughly love homeschooling with HOD. It has been such a blessing in our family for the past 10+ years, and I know it will be in yours as well.

In Christ,
Julie

[pocjets]

Wow! Thanks so much for that info!!
My eldest, 9 year old, is an excellent reader and can give oral narrations. We have never done written narrations. We've been using First Language Lessons and so she is familiar with parts of speech, etc but we have not started diagramming yet. She does well in math as well. She can write in cursive and for writing, we have mostly done copywork and some other "fill-in-the-blank" type questions in history. I guess she is the "typical" first born. She can do independent work as well.
My second daughter, 8 year old, can read on about a "Magic Treehouse" level and is not as strong in narrations. Sometimes I feel like I'm pulling teeth. She also knows parts of speech/no diagramming. She does well in math too. She is learning cursive and again her writing is mainly copywork at this point. She is OK on short independent assignments.
My son, new 6 year old, can decode words/books but is not fluently reading. He'll probably be starting the Emerging Readers (I do already own those) in the next few months. He can do basic copywork and has had no formal grammar. He can narrate books/stories. He is finishing Singapore Essential for Math.

So you DO think it would be OK to switch the girls to Singapore? It wouldn't be a switch for my son obviously. I'd LIKE to do it because I think it would streamline everything but I don't know if it's going to be too complicated for me to re-learn how to teach a different program.

Again, I do want to challenge them but NOT frustrate them. Thanks SO much for your help!!!

[mom23]

With that information I think your oldest would likely flourish very well with Preparing, and I'd look at pairing the younger 2 in Beyond. Julie already gave you great advice on what things you might look at to make the Beyond year successful for your 8 yo-my son loved this program when he was 8! Such a fun year, and I bet your kids will have a blast doing it together!

[my3sons]

I agree with mom23 - PHFHG for the oldest, and Beyond for the younger 2, with the beefing up things I mentioned earlier for the 8 yo. As far as the Singapore Math goes, did you have a chance to give your older dc the free placement test? Here is a link with specific steps for giving the placement test, in case it may help...

Specific directions for what to click on, on the Singapore Math Placement test website:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=13375&p=96931

If you give the test and get a chance to share the results here, that would be great! Keep in mind most dc score a grade level lower than their age due to Singapore Math being considered about a year advanced. HTH!

In Christ,
Julie