At my wit's end with ds9...again.

[Sue G in PA]

This is the child, if you all remember, that has constantly given me problems for the past 3 years. Some days, we might get 90% of the work done and I count that as a success. Some days, like today, we got math done. Just math. "School isn't fun." he complains. "I hate school" he yells. "Too much writing!" he cries. "I won't do it." he refuses. The list goes on. He is defiant, stubborn, disrespectful, nasty, rebellious and disrupting. I'm done. I simply cannot put myself (and the rest of the children) through this torment day in and day out. He disrupts EVERYONE'S mood and day. I can be in a perfectly good, calm, happy, etc. mood and by 4pm I am ready to OD on anti-depressants! Okay, well not literally but you get the seriousness of this! We are using Preparing with him and ds10 and ds12. I have "tweaked" so much of the program as to not overwhelm him with writing. He doesn't do the cursive copywork. Whenever there is a bible verse to copy...I only make him do half if it is long. We do grammar orally. I read MOST of the lesson to him (except science). Well, today, I decided enough was enough. He does less than 1/2 of what is "required" and still complains. So, today, I told him he would do the work exactly as written in the guide. No shortcuts. No easy way out. He is too bright. Well, he refused to copy the verse from science today (I think he got 8 words on paper) and so I had to bring him with me to a dr. appt. so he wouldn't get away with playing or watching tv while I was gone b/c he had refused to do his work. I get zippo support from dh as far as discipline or reinforcement is concerned. I am over-reacting, he says. Okie-dokie. He does the storytime box with the boys before bed each night and you'd think he had drugged them b/c they all sit so nicely and listen so attentively and actually ENGAGE in the conversation after. Not so with me. We do Bible. I ask questions. I get stares, complaints, flip answers, etc. I read the History reading and they squirm, leave the room to use the bathroom or "get something" and then roll their eyes when asked to narrate or answer questions. Let's not even talk about written narration day. You'd think I was killing them.

Please help. I'm ready to ship ds9 to ps even though it is against everything I believe at this point. As for the other boys...I'm practically there with them as well. Can't handle the complaining. I add extra work when it happens but then the complaints get louder or tears follow or the yelling starts. It's ugly. And I'm just exasperated. Sorry to ramble on.

[mom24boys]

On the Well Trained Mind Forum they have a little smilie that has 4 little guys hugging. I wish I could insert that here. Consider yourself hugged! I will send up a prayer for you to our Heavenly Father. Hopefully some of the more experienced mom's will be able to give you productive input. So sorry , that sounds so exhausting for you.

[Tree House Academy]

Oh Sue, I can absolutely feel the exhaustion and frustration from your words. I am so sorry. I wish I had great words of advice for your struggles, but I don't. I can offer prayer for you and your family, though. I pray that God will lead you in the direction he wants for your family. I don't think He would want your days so frustrating and awful!

My boys do give me trouble (and mouth) from time to time, but there are only two of them and they are 4 years apart, so I don't think I am quite as outnumbered as you are. Gosh, I really wish I had the answers for you right now. Seek God...cry out to Him. I know He can hear you and He can help you where the rest of us fall short.

HUGE HUGS!

[1shortmomof4]

As a mom with 3 boys (and 1 girl), I totally understand and have been in your shoes. I have one ds who is now 11 and has does many things like your son and so many times when I tell my dh about it or call for help, well, my little man just seems to settle himself right down. I know our gut reaction is "off to PS with you" but his behavior is even more reason to keep on working with him at home. I have found that when my little guy has acted up in the past there was a main culprit - something in his assignments was just too much and his response is to act out (my oldest ds did the same when in PS and they told me he needed to take school seriously - but it turned out he had some major reading issues). I know you've said that you have tweaked and tweaked the program so that at this point it doesn't look like CTC anymore which is probably not a good thing for many reasons. I would really sit down with your ds and go through each set of assignments and see what his feedback is - in a positive light. I would just have a 1 on 1 meeting with him and discuss your concerns about his behaviors and ask him why he thinks he does what he does - you might be surprised. You may need to make other adjustments - he may need a different program and more time to work on his skills. Boys develop so differently and at times their physical abilities (say sports for example) develop and while this is happening, his maturity and mental abilities slow or regress (remember back to toddlerhood and one day they are walking and then for days they want carried again?). There is a lot of pressure on a younger sibling to perform just like their old ones - especially academically - and I'm not so sure this is always fair to them. I'm struggling myself because I'm using 3 different levels of HOD but I find it better for the child to work on his level (and to use a program at the upper end of his skills rather than the lower) and grow rather than spend the year always pushing and always aggravated - at the end of the day what do I want my memories of this time with them to be? kwim? My ds has LDs and there are days, boy, I'd just love to have someone else remediate, encourage, and teach but in the long run - he is best cared for under my wing because I have his best interests at heart and really know what makes him motivated and achieve the goals.

Now, besides all of this there are two other things that can affect my boys behaviors - weather (low pressure/rain) can really make them whacko and takes extra patience from me and food. While my kids don't have food allergies per se, there are some foods that do cause behavior reactions so we've learned to avoid them.

No easy answers but I do want to encourage you - raising boys is a Gift from God - He really knows how to stretch us!

(((((hugs))))))
Heidi

[lmercon]

First, SUPER BIG SQUISHY hugs for YOU! So sorry that you have to go through this day in and day out. It must be so frustrating. The thing that would be the absolute hardest for me is your dh's reaction to it all. No wonder you feel ganged up on! The kids totally get that and are taking full advantage of you. You definitely need strength from the Lord. He promises not to give you more than you can handle, but maybe you need to organize your situation a bit differently. You need to take back control of your homeschool because right now, they have all the power. I would meet with each child individually. Tell him the behaviors you are seeing and what is unacceptable. Then tell each child what the consequences will be if they behave poorly. You need a way to handle nuisance behaviors quickly and silently instead of letting things escalate. I would suggest writing the name of each boy on an index card. Every single time there is inappropriate behavior - interrupting, complaining, bugging, etc, a tally mark is silently written on the index card. Place the cards near you and the dc so that they will see that a mark is being given. If a certain number of tally marks are given in one day, that child has a consequence. Make it "hurt!" As you are teaching or overseeing seat work, make the mark without comment, maybe just some stern eye contact. If a complaint is given about the mark, make another one. They'll figure it out very quickly. Each day they start out with a clean card. As for the more explosive behavior that your one ds exhibits, I would not accept it for one more minute. He is getting WAY too much face time with you. He doesn't deserve to be in your presence when he acts like that. And it's not fair to the other dc to have to exist in that. His negativity is probably wearing off on the others. I would set up a small desk/workspace in his room, an office, unused area of the house that he is relegated to if he acts up. He must take his work in there and is not permitted to come out until it is done to your satisfaction. He may miss dinner, family games, a movie on tv. Too bad! His behavior brought it on himself. I don't think he'll want to miss things, and he won't like the happy little homeschool that exists when he is gone! He'll wish to be back with you and his brothers. Don't let him back until his work is done and he makes a commitment to behave like a respectable young man. Be strong and be consistent! Use a calm, but firm voice. Don't let him push your buttons. God put you in charge. Show him who's boss!
Big hugs again,
Laura

[Happy2bMommyof3]

Wow Laura...that was awesome! I feel like I've just had a "go get 'em" pep talk... Would you mind posting that on a weekly basis to remind us all???

Thanks!

[Tansy]

You know that perfect For Daddy and Horrible for Mommy has a name... its called triangulation. I had a Husband who didn't believe me said I'm over reacting, as well. My dd1 was perfect for him. My solution was 2 pronged. One I video taped a few school days and shared them with him. I hid the camera & Never told them they were being recorded. At the same time I turned my toughest subject, Math over to him. It didn't take long for frustrations to mount and the first time He flipped out I looked him in the eye and said Nope I'm not going to tell you "you are over reacting"

He then got me a book on parenting he thought I should read (never do that to your spouse, God will spank you ) the book was so affirming to me that I asked him to read it as well. After 3 chapters he apologized. I know how disruptive one child can be. I feel for you. I have to say until my husband and I were a united front I never got anywhere.

One thing I know will help is giving him choices, and lots of affection and praise when ever he gives you an opportunity. One on one time vastly improved my relationship with my dd. Set up a date with him where you take him alone to just be together. You don't even have to talk, just be. Try it you might be amazed with the results. I know right now you want disciplinary actions that will solve the problem but if he's anything like my dd backing in to it from a totally different direction messes with their heads in a way a spanking can't.

I'm sure you have ruled out all physical things that could be causing him trouble? eyes, hands, hearing all good to go? He's developmentally on target etc?

[Bramble]

I agree on the united front with your husband. It has helped tremendously with my 9 yo son, who is doing Bigger (no way could he handle all the work of Preparing this year!) I've had many struggles with my son but being firm and laying it on the line for him has helped tremendously. Get to the heart of the matter. Pray lots. So sorry you are in the midst of this but it'll be great to see what God does with the situation!

[Annette]

I SO feel your pain! Honestly, we had issues with our oldest son's behavior from infancy on. I hschooled him until 7th grade. We didn't really have issues over school work per se, but he did have many violent, rebellious, out of control behaviors. Finally, we sought professional help. I know a lot of hschoolers don't think too favorably about things like counselors, medications, etc. But kids can and do sometimes have mental health issues. Even hschooled kids from nice, uber conservative, Christian homes. That doesn't excuse the behavior, but honestly if their brain chemistry is off kilter, it becomes much more difficult for them to behave. It turned out that my son had Asperger's (This is a high functioning Autism Spectrum Disorder). But we began the whole mental health journey when he was 6,and it took til he was 10 to get an accurate diagnosis. Yes, there are some jerky, ungodly people in the mental health arena, but you don't have to continue working with them. I did "fire" a few professionals over the years. But there are also many helpful supportive, Christian people as well.

Have you had your son evaluated for any kind of physical, mental health, learning disorder, or even allergies? Any of these things can result in those out of control behaviors. And btw-- None of those things are a reflection on you as a parent. Also, if it turns out your son has any of these conditions, there are many different types of therapies for treating them, so you might have to try more than one thing before you find the best approach. A lot of times, the child might need a combo. There's medication. (My son takes Adderall, and despite what some people will tell you, parents are not doling out drugs because they're too lazy to parent properly. If my son were diabetic and needed insulin, I'd give him insulin. Well my son has extreme difficulty with executive functioning because of some faulty neuro transmitter functioning in his frontal lobe, so the Adderall corrects it chemically.) There's also counseling for the kid and/or parents and/or family therapy both in office and in home. There are alternative therapies and things like occupational therapy. There are also support groups for kids, parents, siblings, respite care, and in home help. And there are many books and online resources and support as well.

Anyway, not sure if this is what's going on with your son, but wanted to at least bring that idea to the table. If you ever need anyone to talk to who has been there, done that with the out of control kid deal, or if you have any questions (I'm not an expert. Just a mom who's been through this for several years.) about any of the mental health stuff, you can pm me, and I'll send you my e mail.

BIG HUGS!

Annette

[Sue G in PA]

Thanks everyone. A few things. We have not ever had ds9 formally diagnosed, but talked with a school psych. who is a friend of my dh's. It is possible that he has Aspergers and a myriad of other possibilities. Just not sure at this point. He has gotten better over the years, but we still have this challenge. I was hesitant in the beginning to do Preparing with him, but figured I could tweak it. I am doing LHFHG with my 2 youngers as well and I can't even handle doing 2 programs well at this point. Can't imagine adding Bigger. Not to mention the cost factor. Ugh.

[tnahid]

Wow. I feel your pain as well. My 9 year old son, the oldest, also is a very strong-willed child, but does have allergies, asthma, food allergies, and when he was a baby was like high functioning autistic until he got off of dairy and gluten products. I give him natural vitamins and things which does help, but he is ultra sensitive and can be very harsh, bossy, etc.

If I didn't have my husband's support (and it's hard even WITH his support) I would be in a bad shape as well. But, as has been pointed out, PS is most likely not going to help your son. I would look into some alternative supplements for ADHD or nerves such as GABA, L-Tyrosine, Concentrate, fish oil, magnesium etc. These things do help.

Also, Doorposts has an If Then Chart that is very effective. You may want to look at purchasing those to put up around the house as well.

[Tansy]

We also have gone though Chembalance its a place that helps my dd's brain chemistry via trace minerals, electrolytes, and body ready supplements. We saw immediate changes in her, like she stopped being cold all the time (and were in tx hello its 90 outside why are you wearing a sweater!!) You just have to find the right thing that works for your dc. Keep looking till you find it.
Hugs
Tansy

[Sue G in PA]

Tina, you are not the first to recomment Doorposts. I think it might be time to bit the financial bullet and purchase these resources. It is probably just what we need. For ALL the dc. Clear consequences. I like the reward chart to balance it out as well. Ds9 likes rewards, but they must be BIG ones to motivate him. Stickers and such don't do it for him, kwim? Money, toys, legos, etc. work well, but we'd be broke! Candy works well, too, but oh the dental bills! We took today off, btw...rainy, rainy day and even the publics schools got off early.

[mrsrandolph]

Regardless of learning problems, there is no reason in the world for him to ever be disrespectful to you. He also must learn that God has placed you and your husband as an authority above him, and that he must surrender CHEERFULLY to his God given authority.

I would beg you, if you haven't already, to read Ted Tripp's Shepherding A Child's Heart. It will change so much about your outlook.

Foolishness is bound up in the heart of a child, and the rod of correction will drive it far from him.

Though encouragement is greatly important, it will not drive foolishness from your child's heart.

We spank because we love. We spank because the Lord has commanded us to do so.

In considering this, we must also consider that this cannot be a light tap on the rear. That is of no consequence to a child. It means nothing. It must HURT. It must make an impact on him. This is a tool prescribed by the Lord, and we must use it consistently, and as often as required by our child.

At our house, we spank for 3 things...

Dishonesty
Disobedience
Disrespect

If my child does not do her school work cheerfully, she is being disrespectful to both me, for the time I have put into teaching her, and to the Lord for providing her with this opportunity to learn. Therefore she needs a spanking. I may warn her of her attitude one time during the day first.

He who spares the rod hates his son.


I feel your frustration. I pray these words will encourage you. Try that book as well

[deltagal]

This quote was on Rosemond.com today. I thought of you...

Thursday, September 30, 2010
In order for children to become successful at the three "R's" of reading, ‘riting, and ‘rithmetic, parent must first teach them the Three R's of Respect, Responsibility, and Resourcefulness. These, not high IQ, define the educable child.


Take care.